Are costume contests fair?

[Ukase]

Let me preface this by saying I don't really spend too much time in the costume creator. I used to, but for the most part, I think I may have placed 4th in a contest that had 3 people in it..and that was my best result. 

I saw a comment in general chat a couple of days ago about "cel shading".  I wasn't quite sure what that was, as I was unclear if CEL were an acronym or a lazy typist's way of using Cell. In any event, I noticed - which I'm thinking wasn't there before, but I can be quite obtuse, an option to use Cel shading, and I tinkered with it. I left the setting where it was after I tinkered with it - and found that the next time I logged in, my other characters looked quite different. I could barely see the costume, as there was a lot of "shine" to the core of the character. It wasn't like that before. 
The bottom one is with Cell shading on, the top with it off. 

I guess my questions is this: 
If I have my options set to cell shading off, and you have them on, are you seeing the picture above (off), or below (on)? 
There's a zillion different settings (well, maybe not a true zillion) within cel shading option alone, let alone the other changes one might make. 

If I have cell shading on, and you have it off, or vice-versa, I don't see how it is that you see the same thing I see. I suppose it's a level field in that nobody else knows what you're really looking at either, so they could have the same discrepancy. But they might not. You might both have it off, or on. 

Obviously - this costume is just a fairly plain costume, just going with an adjusted random costume, taking away the default animal head I always end up with, removing the tail, and the nasty looking aura. I wouldn't expect this to win much of anything. But it's the costume that made it apparent (to me) that there's a larger difference in video settings than I thought.  


How do we know the playing field for a costume contest is a level field? 

[Placta]

9 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I saw a comment in general chat a couple of days ago about "cel shading".  I wasn't quite sure what that was, as I was unclear if CEL were an acronym or a lazy typist's way of using Cell.

 

Cel shading (and cel).

[TemporalVileTerror]

The short answer:
No.
And they can't ever be, because taste is subjective, AND City of Heroes has generally attracted a fairly diverse number of people (albeit it in a Western socio-economic bubble, but it's at least a bubble which has seen influences from around the world).

So, the most we can hope for is to be one of the lucky chosen few who a GM adamantly exclaims to the others "that one!  That's the one I want to win.  I won't take 'no' for an answer!"

[MTeague]

Costume Contests are always inherently unfair, because it always comes down to personal tastes on the part of the judges as to what is better than what, who considers what to be a "more true" representation of a theme than what someone else consider it to be etc. Even if Cel Shading were completely removed from the piccture, this would still be true. 

 

Also, because People don't accept my 100% flawless and always accurate judgements as the One Word of Truth , so they're doomed from the get-go.

 

ninja'd by TVT

Edited May 25, 2021 by MTeague

[Yomo Kimyata]

Based purely on the evidence that I have never won a costume contest:  no, they are not fair.

[JnEricsonx]

It's totally subjective.  I got one character, Avatar of Silvoros, who I've had a couple people say, "holy crap that looks awesome", probably been in a couple dozen CC's, never even placed.  It really depends on what stands out to the person running the contest.

[TemporalVileTerror]

On Legacy/Retail, I made "a living wage" by winning Costume Contests with my main.  Back when 9999 was the maximum Inf you could trade at a time.  I was able to fully slot SOs every 5 levels until the 40s, while also screwing up and not knowing what I was doing and wasting tonnes of Inf in the process.

These days?
I get the occasional "that's creepy" for that same character's appearance, and haven't won any contests yet.

Although, I've got a sugar-momma now who does market crap, so I've been able to afford to run contests and events instead.  Contests where I give special attention and credit to players who might not receive appreciation from more "mainstream" aesthetic sensibilities.

[Glacier Peak]

I gotta say like everyone else, it is subjective. Is that fair? Hmmm... It is in the eye of the beholder.

 

For example, the most recent costume contest event on my primary server was a ton of fun. When it came to the four runner-ups, their costumes were fantastic! Completely original designs with great color compliments. But the winner? Holy cow, it looked like they hit the random button. Two primary colors selected for the palette. The costume made no sense to me, it was literally a costume that shows up when you hit random in the costume creator. I was more surprised that the costume winner beat out the other four awesome costumes than my own that didn't place. Heck the winning costumed character was created on the day of the event, Level 1, no badges. Meanwhile I spent months tweaking my costume on my character for this event after previously participating in other contests. 

 

So yeah, its subjective. But that is okay! 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Glacier Peak
further shenanigans

[The_Warpact]

I'm color blind so colors have no use in my cc, so your costume might have garish colors which some people would be why are choosing that one.

Completely subjective, personal preferences, etc, etc, etc.

Not an easy answer.

[TemporalVileTerror]

And then there are factors such what the judges ate for breakfast that day.  I mean, if you're on the Shard with a GM who is hangry, and someone has the exact same costume as you on the Shard with the GM who is well-fed and feeling good, and those two GMs would otherwise have made the same decision . . . 
It's just too many potential factors to consider.  It's really more of a random lottory than it is anything approaching an actual contest.

[Sovera]

Fair is a weird word. Maybe you're looking for 'impartial'? They can rarely be impartial. Just for an example the main populace loves huge titted barely clad females with body sliders to minimum except chest who goes in the opposite direction. That wouldn't even register on my radar so good luck selling me this awesome (to the person's eyes) costume.

 

Same person who loves those may set a costume contest and barely glance at any male character while a clone of their character will get max points.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Sovera

[wjrasmussen]

Life isn't fair and neither are CC.

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

If I have my options set to cell shading off, and you have them on, are you seeing the picture above (off), or below (on)? 

 

Seems like nobody actually answered this one yet.   The answer is that the cel shading option affects what you see, not what anyone else sees.  If I have the option off, I see the same thing you see when you have the option off and vice versa.

 

If you're curious about whether a CC judge is using cel shading ask them.  I would suspect most of the time the answer is "no".   Some people like it.  I don't care for it aesthetically, myself.  Which is good, because it doesn't seem to perform all that well for me either.  It's just one data point, but all the screenshots I saw of the Anniversary CC were without cel shading.  I think it's probably a pretty uncommon option for most.

 

Beyond that, there are certainly other graphics options like character detail level that might affect how someone else sees your costume.  But as everyone else has pointed out, it's subjective anyway.  Whatever options they are using, they are seeing all the costumes with the same options at least, so there's that.

[Ulysses Dare]

"Fair", in terms of running a costume contest, means that everyone who shows up gets an equal chance to impress the judge(s). It doesn't mean the judge will necessarily get to appreciate your costume the same way you do. If you have cel shading turned off and the contest judge has cel shading turned on (or vice versa) then, yes,  you'll both be seeing different images. But the same is true if you each have different gamma settings, brightness, or red levels. Heck, just using different monitors alters the image you see. And, if you both could somehow use the same monitor, people's vision varies too.

[KauaiJim]

I personally avoid them because I would always win and that would make others angry at me.  Don't hate me because I'm awesome...  🙃

[Hexquisite]

I've been validated of my costuming genius by the fact that nearly every one I've attended and never placed in, still earned me several million inf by several enlightened souls of superior taste approaching me and just giving it because they thought I should have won.

 

Some of those, I wasn't even participating in. I just happened to be nearby.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Hexquisite

[Twisted Toon]

I won one once.

 

So, yes, they are entirely unfair.

 

Otherwise, I would have twoed two twice? 😵

[Judasace]

They're subjective, so it really doesn't matter. I've won with costumes I thought were terrible, and lost with ones which IMO were better than any of the actual winners. But that's subjectivity for you.

[MTeague]

3 hours ago, TemporalVileTerror said:

And then there are factors such what the judges ate for breakfast that day. 

 

"Judge, eat a snickers"

[Ukase]

I agree with the point it's subjective. I am just wondering how different things look between my system and other systems. I USED to have one of the top 3 cards...now it's a middle of the pack card. Still more than good enough for this game, but I do wonder how to make things look more real, and less "comic-book-ish".  Like the opposite of cel-shading. 

 

[Snarky]

Let me preface this by saying I am not a great artist.  However, with years of practice when I focus I can create something passable.  I still remember an art exhibition in school.  i worked hard on a colored pencil drawing for it.  Turned out pretty good.  Refused.  When I collected it I was told it was good work, but that the exhibition was being judged by someone who had a particular thing they were looking for.  No where was this mentioned in the materials about submitting projects.  Nothing is fair.  Judges look for what sings to their hearts.  As is their right.  In fact choosing something because it is "good" instead of because you are like "THAT IS IT!" is the real unfairness.

[TemporalVileTerror]

More real?
An extensive-to-the-point-virtually-impossible refactoring of the rendering engine, with simultaneous addition of entirely new-but-made-to-emulate-the-existing texture files.

At least, that's to the best of my technical knowledge.  The texture files can only be so big right now, and to give them extra detail for a more realistic look would require redoing them manually.

See here:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/25268-suggestion-using-neural-network-upscaling-algorithms-to-improve-texture-quality/?tab=comments#comment-311351

[honoroit]

 

My fashion is obviously the Supreme, no matter the entrant riff raff that would show themselves to challenge that. 

 

Sometime, I don't win. Nepotism, or spite. That's what that is. 

 

(sometimes there's a some great stuff... Like a guy who I thought had a HUGE bug head... It was the missing head, and enormous bulby shoulders. Looked properly like a bipedal fly. - - but then there's the rainbow splat clown, who gets 250m inf. Outrageous.) 

Edited May 26, 2021 by honoroit

[GM Impervium]

To answer the actual question within the post, and not the clickbait-y question in the title: Yes, different settings will make your character look different than what you might intend. The Cel Shader especially messes with colors a bit, so your purple costume might look a bit more red to the viewer. But, if that's how someone enjoys seeing the in-game world, well, there's not much that can be done about that.

That being said, at least for Homecoming's Official Contests, we don't use the Cel shader when judging entrants. Your bog-standard CC under Atlas? Well, that's up to whoever is running the contest.

Edited May 27, 2021 by GM Impervium
typo

[Tacheyon]

I have gotten runner up twice now in Themed contests when quite a few of the people who 'entered' didn't bother even understanding what the requirements were to be eligible to win.

 

On open ones I don't think I have even come close.  Even though I put in a ton of time into it.  Does it suck not even being recognized, yes.  But that's life.  And CC's are very personal biased things.  Lots of creativity though in those and I take a lot of screenshots to maybe get a design idea for my next Alt.

 

The ones run by the official GM's are pretty fair, but very popular so the chances of winning are quite low.  Player run events are smaller so you have a better chance.  But then you also run the risk of a 18 year old siding with the max female chest slider entry or the Edgelord wannebe.

 

Look at the next CC being held in July.  It is a Folklore, Fables, and Fairy Tales theme.  Start looking at what you might like to play that can fit that theme.  Then just start spending time designing and scrapping lots of ideas.  Some will not work because the engine isn't set up for it, or the pieces don't quite line up.  That is where the fun begins as you try and adapt.