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801 Stalker Project


Linea
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Posted (edited)

This is for AE 801(link), specifically 801.7, if you don't know what that is then follow the link, and run a few missions.  In short it's much like playing somewhere between +5x8 and +8x8.

 

If you can make any of these builds better, I welcome the feedback.

 

It is my opinion that StJ/EnA might well be the best overall stalker you can build for official content. If it's not that, then it's StJ/Bio.  I run a /Bio (scrapper) as my 'main tank' in most official content.  However, my StJ/EnA tends to fail 801.7, barely, and I wanted to improve on that.

 

The rebuilt EnM is probably the best ST focused stalker you can build, I've not tested the new rebuilt version so I can't swear to that, but it really looks good.  It can even heal on focused crits.  However, it can also still do damage, and I'm trying to increase durabilty, not decrease it.  So while I'd love to give this route a try, I don't feel like this is the answer.  ... If you build one and prove me wrong, please post it.

 

If I were looking at standard content, where offense is more fairly measured as avg(ST,AoE,AoE), then I might well recommend ElA where Stalkers ST damage fills the gap that's present in all the other ATs version of ElA.  Combine that with excellent AoE and this is another potential flavor for 'Best PvE Stalker'.  But, I'm looking at 801.7 where the AoE splash is pretty much ignored by all the EBs.

 

---

 

Even running perma def/res caps (barely), isn't enough due to debuffs and lack of healing.  Inspirations (primarily large oranges) can deal with the debuffs if you are proactive and never blink.   However, even then, I find myself having to use a green every minute or more.  That's not sustainable. 

 

This applies to all the 75% resist cap ATs.  You'll either need a bit better healing, and/or support.  Or better yet Defense, Resist, and Healing support.  As another example  /Bio has great healing/regen.   However, even std defense capped and resist capped it's not enough.   I can eat purples to hit the defense i-cap, but that still doesn't help with DDR, or I have to eat an unsustainably large number of them. Same with resist.  While I can resist cap (at 75%), that still leaves a 25% RDR gap and no real resist buffer vs debuffs.   So while I can burst and off-tank using Medium or Large Dual Def/Res inspirations with /Bio Regeneration and Absorb Bursts ... eventually all that hits a valley and I *insta-splat*.

 

 

 

So, back to more planning and testing on the test server.  

 

801 RadM/Ena Stalker (link)

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This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Stalker
Primary Power Set: Radiation Melee
Secondary Power Set: Energy Aura
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Sorcery
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Radioactive Smash -- CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg(3), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), TchofDth-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(7), Rct-Def(9), Rct-ResDam%(9)
Level 2: Kinetic Shield -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(11), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(11), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(13)
Level 4: Power Shield -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(17), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17)
Level 6: Assassin's Corruption -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(23)
Level 8: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), GssSynFr--Build%(25)
Level 10: Entropy Shield -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- GldArm-End/Res(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(25), GldArm-ResDam(50)
Level 16: Kinetic Dampening -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(27), Ags-ResDam(27), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(29), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 18: Radiation Siphon -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Hct-Acc/Rchg(31), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Hct-Dam%(31), Heal-I(33)
Level 20: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(33), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(34), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(34)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 26: Devastating Blow -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(37)
Level 28: Energy Drain -- RedFrt-Def/Rchg(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(37), Rct-Def/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 32: Atom Smasher -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Arm-Dam%(40), TchofLadG-%Dam(40)
Level 35: Energize -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(42), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(42), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(42), Pnc-Heal(43)
Level 38: Moonbeam -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Acc/Rchg(43), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apc-Dam%(45), Dcm-Build%(45)
Level 41: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 44: Rune of Protection -- Ags-ResDam/Rchg(A), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(46), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Ags-ResDam(46)
Level 47: Shadow Meld -- RedFrt-Def/Rchg(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(48), Rct-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Overload -- RedFrt-Def/Rchg(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(50), Rct-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(15)
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Assassination
------------

 



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So I tested a couple of different approaches.

 

The Slow Defense method did not offer enough of a buffer vs DDR.  It's very close, I totally run an almost identical build with a Brute to great effect.  However, the brute has a much higher resist cap effectively taking only 40% of the damage vs the stalker.  That difference in resist caps and damage makes a real difference.  Couple that with the RDR effect of a lower resist cap, and not only am I fighting 2.5x more damage on the stalker, I'm fighting 2.5x more resist debuffs, and while the former is an issue, it's the latter that I really feel, and feel badly and to terminal effect.  Resist caps matter, dangit.

 

I ended up chosing the High Recharge T9 3m/4m build.   It has excellent performance in 801.5 by just using Shadow Meld and supplementing as needed with (Rune/Hybrid/Rune/Demonic/Wedding Band), no T9 needed at all.   In 801.7 I run synced T9s for 3m with 4m recharge.  3m up, just before it crashes (Phase/Heal +Endurance Discount/Recovery Serum), toggle back up (this takes 30 s), unphase, shadow meld and ease back into the edges of the fight until the T9s are ready again in 30s.  You can also use Inspirations or Temps to get back into the fight sooner.

 

The following builds are related to and influenced the '801 Stalker Project' but are not all stalker builds, nor are all of them complete or finished builds.  There are also additional builds that influenced this build that are not included.

RadM Ena ShadowMeld Stalker - 801 - Recharge-T9 ver 1c - [i25].mxd StJ Ena ShadowMeld Stalker - 801 - Recharge-T9 ver 1c - [i25].mxd EnM Ena ShadowMeld Stalker - 801 - Recharge-T9 ver 1c - [i25].mxd Stj Ena DN Brute - 801 SD 1c Pre-Alpha - [i25].mxd StJ Ena ShadowMeld Stalker - 801 - Slow Defense ver 1c - [i25].mxd Kat ENA Brute - Mu 1i - [i25].mxd StJ Ena WaterSpout Stalker - Alpha T3 - [i25].mxd FF DP Scorpion Def - STF SLE 1c - [i25].mxd Kat ENA Brute - Prototype 801 - DN 2i - [i25].mxd

Edited by Linea
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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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That Sounds like a very nice Project. I like what you are doing here!

 

I would recommend Carnifax Combat Parser for a little bit of analysis on your runs. Maybe you will learn something new that you did not know. 

 

I have not tried these AE arcs but if the survivability is so hard, did you consider using Ice Melee with its Ice Patch? Also Ice Armor during its Icy Bastion felt very tanky. These are just my first ideas after reading this. Maybe i will try it out myself for more input.

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Posted (edited)

Various Excerpts:

 

"Teams are always easier than solo".  That said, she's holding up really well in 7s, and spectacularly in 5s.  And she's doing exactly what I wanted "Not overly influencing or skewing the teams".  But at the same time if the shit hits the fan, she can off-tank in emergencies, not well, but a team could limp along using her as a crutch in a catastrophe if it had to.  They'd definitely know they were limping, but it might beat a complete failure.

On the down side, since I started running teams with the stalker:   Not a single team has gotten past the door of 7, not even weekend teams.  Twice as many tanks and brutes are quitting mid-mission leaving the team holding the bag with no armor.  Worse, most of the quitters are rage-quitting logging out without quitting the team, leaving the team AE-BUGGED and not even able to recruit replacements.  I always warn every team "WARNING AE BUG: YOU MUST QUIT THE TEAM BEFORE LOGGING OUT".  And I'm ignored more often than not.   Twice as many quitters, and probably three times as many rage-quitters.   Maybe it's just been a bad week, a statistical anomaly.

 

When you pull 1 group, you (almost) never get stacked overlapping debuffs, the AI won't do it.  But two groups, each group uses the same rules, but in isolation, so now you have 2 x Ice Storms .... etc.  801.7 and up (vs the stalker) is very strictly 1 spawn max at a time only, and T9s only ... unless I'm teamed.   The extra debuff of pulling more than one group pushes it over the edge.  Even in 801.5 too many groups stacking debuffs can push it over the edge, but I can more or less handle 2 or 3 groups in 801.5. 

 

Two different examples. 

Teamwipe in 801.7, I live but fall back.  Falling back reduces aggro to only one group.  I tank that group, holding it at a corner to make a safe space behind me, ~5m until the team regroups and saves me and takes over just as the second T9 Crash approaches.   The first crash I weathered with a combination of phasing and Demonic.  The second crash was going to be fatal.  But I managed to hold on and make a safe space just long enough for the team to res and regroup, I also managed to take out half a dozen or so EBs while I was doing it.

 

Tank pulls a whole room, 3 spawns.  Team wipes, they even get me.   No matter what I try I can't even edge back into the group.  The area around the tank just has too many location debuffs and too much aggro and alpha damage.  If I hit even one target, I get a full 16 aggro, and it's aggro from a mixed group, not a single group, so I'm getting stacking debuffs AND having to deal with the already stacked location debuffs all around the tank.   ... I should have sniped and pulled a group away from the tank and fought a separate battle instead of trying to 'help' the tank.  I can handle 1 group.  I can NOT handle two, nor can I handle the mixed stacking debuffs of two half groups.  1 Ice Storm is bad, 2 or more Ice Storms is fatal.  ... Hindsight is 20/20.  Next time I'll pull an leave the tank to die.

 

---

 

CoH mobs in general are weak to:  Confuse, Fear, and KD.   This should give you some ideas on directions and strategies to investigate.

 

Resist armor with defense buffs on the team is just stupid easy mode, perma T9 equivalent, but then what happens when you get that team with zero defense buffs. This lack of defense buffs happens way more frequently that I'd have ever expected.

I've done RadA with Brute/Tank up to 7.  I wasn't so sure how well it would balance with the lower resist cap.   In heavy debuffs it gets tricky with the brute, so 2.5x additional incoming damage on a stalker is a real concern.  Massive recharge, resist cap, and some AoE KD is a reasonable direction to investigate, but I'm not certain enough of the results to put time into it right now.  Which primary has the best, most, and reliable KD?  I can't answer that, but It's definitely a direction worth looking. 

 

Stuns would work well too, up to 6.  However, 7 and up are all EBs so the stun route goes out the window.  Stuns are very effective below 7.

 

The AoE KD idea also makes Ice Armor a possible, but I've never liked IceA in the past.  But it's definitely an idea that could be tested.

 

-Damage does work, subject to level modifiers and +Damage dilution.   Level modifier roughly halves it, and most of the mobs have +20% damage.

When Lucy (SD/RadM Tank) alpha's a mob it's at the equivalent of ~93% pseudo-resist for the first 30 seconds due to stacking of Darkest Night and Void Radial T4.  (It would be ~96% pseudo-resist vs +0s).  Skylark does the same.  1 - (0.1 * 85 / 120) ~= 93% pseudo-resist.

Edited by Linea
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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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57 minutes ago, Linea said:

Which primary has the best, most, and reliable KD?  I can't answer that, but It's definitely a direction worth looking. 

 

Stuns would work well too, up to 6.  However, 7 and up are all EBs so the stun route goes out the window.  Stuns are very effective below 7.

 

The AoE KD idea also makes Ice Armor a possible, but I've never liked IceA in the past.  But it's definitely an idea that could be tested.


You mention KD and then Ice Armor, are you thinking Ice patch? A reminder Ice Patch is in Ice Melee, not Ice Armor. I don't see any way to cause knockback in Ice Armor. 
Ice Melee is almost certainly the most consistent knockdown with Ice Patch. With basic self single recharge slotting ~150 global recharge its possible to have 3 ice patches out at once, though that also drops three attacks from your chain. You can slot purple knockdown chance into Frozen Aura (Ice Melee's footstomp) to have another reasonably consistent source. 

 

Claws is good with KB, Shockwave with KB->KD can be up usually every 2-3rd attack to keep a lot of things on their backs, and then Focus with single target as well. 

The Alphabet Bunnies
50s | Tanker: Rad/Ice, Fire/MA, Inv/WM, Bio/Savage, SR/KM, Shield/DM | Stalker: SM/Ice, Ice/Bio, DB/NRG | Scrapper: Kat/NRG, Claws/Nin | CrabSpider
| Farmer: Spine/Fire | Controller: Ill/Rad
Currently Building: Spine/Inv Scrapper

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For Knock I was thinking Staff Fighting:
Eye of the Storm (AoE KD) >> Serpent's Reach (with Recharge Proc) >> Sky Splitter (AoE KU)
And throw in Fiery Aura > Burn with the Overwhemling KD proc to fill in the gaps...

If FF doesn't Proc, add an extra Serpent's Reach. You could also drop the FF proc and take Hasten to guarantee the three strike mainly AoE chain.

Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Archetype Proposal Amalgamation

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25 minutes ago, Zepp said:

Eye of the Storm (AoE KD) >> Serpent's Reach (with Recharge Proc) >> Sky Splitter (AoE KU)


I looked at that too, but Eye of the Storm is only a 40% chance to KD, vs some other powers that are 100%. Serprent's Reach is 80%, Sky Splitter is 100%. Vs Claws, where Shockwave and Focus are both 100%. Though Eye of the Storm is a lot easier to use than adjusting to aim shockwave over and over.

The Alphabet Bunnies
50s | Tanker: Rad/Ice, Fire/MA, Inv/WM, Bio/Savage, SR/KM, Shield/DM | Stalker: SM/Ice, Ice/Bio, DB/NRG | Scrapper: Kat/NRG, Claws/Nin | CrabSpider
| Farmer: Spine/Fire | Controller: Ill/Rad
Currently Building: Spine/Inv Scrapper

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Love the durability, but I paid for it in dps.

 

Alnamira dps.jpg

AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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  • 2 weeks later

Nice post.  I'll have to take a look at those builds.  Hopefully I'll have constructive input later.

 

side note

I have like 10 level 50 Stalkers and the toughest of the bunch is DM/Invuln, surprised right?  But I think it may be the best for 801 with Ageless Radial.  The +tohit is nice and Invuln gets pretty great Resist and Defense numbers.

 

Aside from that I would think that Shield and EA maybe the best performers for 801.  Rad and Elec if you have defense buffers on the team.

 

Anyhow I look forward to taking a closer look.

 

 

 

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On 5/29/2021 at 4:15 PM, Linea said:

This is for AE 801(link), specifically 801.7, if you don't know what that is then follow the link, and run a few missions.  In short it's much like playing somewhere between +5x8 and +8x8.

 

If you can make any of these builds better, I welcome the feedback.

 

It is my opinion that StJ/EnA might well be the best overall stalker you can build for official content. If it's not that, then it's StJ/Bio.  I run a /Bio (scrapper) as my 'main tank' in most official content.  However, my StJ/EnA tends to fail 801.7, barely, and I wanted to improve on that.

 

The rebuilt EnM is probably the best ST focused stalker you can build, I've not tested the new rebuilt version so I can't swear to that, but it really looks good.  It can even heal on focused crits.  However, it can also still do damage, and I'm trying to increase durabilty, not decrease it.  So while I'd love to give this route a try, I don't feel like this is the answer.  ... If you build one and prove me wrong, please post it.

 

If I were looking at standard content, where offense is more fairly measured as avg(ST,AoE,AoE), then I might well recommend ElA where Stalkers ST damage fills the gap that's present in all the other ATs version of ElA.  Combine that with excellent AoE and this is another potential flavor for 'Best PvE Stalker'.  But, I'm looking at 801.7 where the AoE splash is pretty much ignored by all the EBs.

 

---

 

Even running perma def/res caps (barely), isn't enough due to debuffs and lack of healing.  Inspirations (primarily large oranges) can deal with the debuffs if you are proactive and never blink.   However, even then, I find myself having to use a green every minute or more.  That's not sustainable. 

 

This applies to all the 75% resist cap ATs.  You'll either need a bit better healing, and/or support.  Or better yet Defense, Resist, and Healing support.  As another example  /Bio has great healing/regen.   However, even std defense capped and resist capped it's not enough.   I can eat purples to hit the defense i-cap, but that still doesn't help with DDR, or I have to eat an unsustainably large number of them. Same with resist.  While I can resist cap (at 75%), that still leaves a 25% RDR gap and no real resist buffer vs debuffs.   So while I can burst and off-tank using Medium or Large Dual Def/Res inspirations with /Bio Regeneration and Absorb Bursts ... eventually all that hits a valley and I *insta-splat*.

 

 

 

 

Do you have to set your notoriety to +4/8 before setting the mission or does the mission basically do it for you?

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10 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

 

Do you have to set your notoriety to +4/8 before setting the mission or does the mission basically do it for you?

Yeah, you have to set it before going in, just like you would for a mission or TF.

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Got defeated twice in the first 8 minutes on my EM/EA Stalker.  I thought it was going to be easy after the first group, but while working on the 2nd group I aggroed the 3rd group.  That was all she wrote...

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  • 2 months later

Soloed a Nightmare ITF - (+4x8, No Deaths, No Temps, Players Debuffed, Enemies Buffed, No Inspirations)

3 real-time weeks

10 in-game hours

 

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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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