Sentinel Identity

[Sunsette]

Hey, long time no see.

 

I've been pretty busy with life, but I do check back in here now and then, hoping for changes to my favorite AT (Sent) or powerset (NRG Blast) -- haven't seen anything, yet, so thought I'd throw out some random ruminations. I'm not the first to observe that Sentinel's identity is a bit muddied and that it's a difficult topic when considering high level players, given the blaster role, blaster quality-of-life changes, and the fact that there are already so many support ATs. But I do have some suggestions that I hope might be helpful to ... whoever, to make sentinel play more dynamic.

 

My vision for a sentinel is a fighter who briefly shines in difficult spots with just-in-time valuable single-target controls and bursts of high damage by tactically accepting higher risk to do higher damage when the alternative is a team defeat. True to its name, the playstyle rewards watching the battle rather than just going in and headbutting things. When I last played, the Sentinel achieves this well at low to medium levels (outside of praetorian content anyway) but not at all at high levels. Here are my suggestions to that end.

 

1. Primary Powerset & Opportunity: Two powers got changed for most sentinel primary sets from blasters: the snipe, and the utility. I'd like to recommend some changes here:
   • The Snipe: Using the snipe-replacement during offensive opportunity should function rather like a critical hit in addition to its existing functions; it should be the highest DPS-AT attack in the set under these conditions and not be close. 50% to 100% extra base damage in most cases would be appropriate.
   • The Utility: Using this attack during defensive opportunity should result in absolutely ridiculous single target mez strength or a soft control effect.
     • Exception: Energy Blast, Power Push should get -Fly and KnockUp to replace Knockback, like Air Superiority.
   • Aim: Rename this ability to Overwatch. Using Overwatch should not give a damage boost; instead, it should do the following functions:
     • Immediately ends Opportunity but activates a new Opportunity.
     • Briefly but significantly increase the team's perception and to-hit, to represent the sentinel being on-guard from a superior vantage position and watching allies.
     • Increase the range boost to +67% (up from +33%), so that Sentinels can better protect their ranged allies who are far away. It can never have better than about 40% uptime in extreme edge-case recharge anyway.
     • Exception: Dual Pistols, different ammo should also gain different benefits from the new Overwatch ability other powersets get.
       • Not using any Ammo imposes an increased Defense penalty now.
       • Using any special ammo reduces the Stealth values of anything struck (because they're on fire/frozen/melting) to be functionally equivalent to a Perception increase.
       • Swapping to a new Ammo type refreshes Opportunity, no more than once a minute per Ammo type on an ICD.
   • The T9: This ability can now trigger an additional form of Opportunity: Mass Opportunity. This does not get the specific benefits of Offensive or Defensive Opportunity but afflicts all targets struck with Opportunity if used when Opportunity is ready.
   • Why? The snipe replacements often have distinct animations for Sentinels and feel like they should be powerful, and yet they are not. Their DPS-AT is frequently middling, because for some reason the attack developed from the CC was frequently chosen to be the surprise damage attack. This change would make Opportunity into a more dynamic and purposeful mechanic.
2. Secondary Powerset T9: The secondary powerset's T9 needs to grant a significant boost to the sentinel's offensive output, increasing the sentinel's base attack damage. It should not boost defenses at all. The maximum duration for T9s should be reduced to 120s (down from 180) to ensure that even extremely high recharge builds cannot have better than about 50% uptime with crashing to avoid overincentivizing this option.
   • Exceptions: This really only applies to T9s in secondaries that crash. Neither self-rezzing powersets, like /Dark or /Fire, nor entirely crashless T9s (as in /Rad) should be affected.
   • Why? If I'm trying to stay alive, I'm not going to risk a crash for for something worse than purples and oranges -- but I might for something better than reds. No one uses a crashing T9 on a sentinel secondary; one of the few clear advantages the Sentinel has over other ranged classes is that its defenses are more consistent. Having a crash defense is completely at odds with this identity. Currently, the sentinel design also overly rewards proc frankenslotting on offense, which can eke out extra performance but can feel unrewarding to character identity and exemplaring.
3. Epic Power Pools: Every epic power pool has one of its two openers be a melee attack. But like, that just makes the sentinel a worse blapper...
   • PBAoE: Would consider throwing in a taunt here. 
   • Final Power: Even by the standards of many other final powers, the final power in Sentinel Epic pools is frequently laughable. There is no one-size-fits-all solution here, but the healing powers are ridiculously weak in particular. 
   • Why? These choices would more meaningfully represent the Sentinel as a jack-of-all that is choosing to favor part of their DNA. Currently the immobs are the most useful part of the toolkit across most of the pools.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Sunsette

[Bopper]

3 hours ago, Sunsette said:

Hey, long time no see

Very long time. Welcome back.

[oldskool]

Hey, stranger!  Good to see you around.  You've been missed by many.

[Underfyre]

I've been thinking recently that the Sentinel secondaries should all carry a damage boosting capability. More along the lines of a flat boost tho, not like Meltdown, but also not like Molten Embrace/Offensive Adaptation adding a proc. Or if they do add a proc, something flavored to the set, but not necessarily damage.

[Sunsette]

9 hours ago, underfyre said:

I've been thinking recently that the Sentinel secondaries should all carry a damage boosting capability. More along the lines of a flat boost tho, not like Meltdown, but also not like Molten Embrace/Offensive Adaptation adding a proc. Or if they do add a proc, something flavored to the set, but not necessarily damage.

Whatever it is, it needs to be along the lines of a truly medium-term effect - long enough to easily last two pulls in inoptimal play, but not long enough to be compatible with pulling a whole TF and whittling them down over a few minutes (which is precisely why I avoided discussion of bringing up target caps -- I think it would be a big improvement to QoL but would continue to leave the Sentinel feeling like a weird blaster variant at high levels). There is no shortage of ATs that build up to do good sustained damage or ATs that can provide very scary spike damage. I'm thinking of something that lets you bring down an AV comfortably or that you can pop when the pull goes a little wild but you know the team has your back.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Sunsette

[drbuzzard]

I'm agreeable with most of what you suggest, but I am completely against messing with the nuke recharge times.  I consider those the one bright spot of the class right now, and it is what makes them at least somewhat offensively unique. 

[Hardboiled Hero]

hmm..  I honestly don't think I would like sentinels as much if they were "more dynamic", Personally, I like my sentinels to be smooth and consistent.  Archery is already like this as a primary.. as for secondaries, I tend to pick things that don't require much thought or active attention. 

 

t1, t2, and opportunity:  So removing the opportunity triggers from t1 and t2 powers would make people use those powers more, because they're not having to think about getting the right opportunity at the right time.  In @Sunsette's concept, it sounds like getting opportunity and using it at the right time should be rather important.  As things are, opportunity.. and specifically which opportunity we use, isn't really a big deal.  My archery sentinel uses t1 attack often, because it fits in her standard attack routine. she only uses t2 when the t1 misses and I really want to apply opportunity..  I've played many sentinels and, with some of them the t1 and/or t2 seem "natural" and other times one or both of them are simply a way to apply opportunity.  Honestly, if the suggested changes were made, I doubt people would even use the t1 and t2 in most cases.  In many cases, having opp on the t1 or t2 is what makes those powers usable.

 

the snipe amd utility:  If you choose the snipe replacement, your t1 no longer applies offense.  Instead, your snipe power does significant extra damage. I assume this would consume the opportunity, essentially becoming an alternate offensive opportunity. I would also like to assume that the generic benefit from opportunity use would still apply, you just wouldn't get the same offensive specific effect.  If having t1 with opportunity makes the t1 "less natural", then it seems adding opp to the snipe would make the snipe "less natural".. but I guess that whole thing goes in with the idea of making the sentinel a more bursty AT.  As for me, I like using my "snipe" and my "Utility" on a regular basis. furthermore, I want to keep the generic opportunity benefit up as much as possible.  Personally, I don't think there would be anything wrong with simply suggesting that the snipe and utility just get addition effect while offense or defense opp are in effect.

[Sunsette]

1 hour ago, drbuzzard said:

I'm agreeable with most of what you suggest, but I am completely against messing with the nuke recharge times.  I consider those the one bright spot of the class right now, and it is what makes them at least somewhat offensively unique. 

 

On further consideration, I agree. You're at best looking at a free opportunity bar once every 30 seconds, and that shouldn't be too scary.

 

@Hardboiled Hero That's a fair response, My intention wasn't to remove existing effects from opportunity. 

I've made some changes to my suggestions given feedback and having read Captain Powerhouse's comments from last year about what they wanted the Sentinel to be, to hopefully better match that vision. The comments at the time suggested removing Opportunity altogether, however, and obviously I didn't go that way. 🙂

[nihilii]

I'm a simple man. I see Sunsette thread, I hit "like".

 

... even though I lean with HH's reply. 😉

[ScarySai]

Sentinels are basically an attempt to create the 'pure ranged with an armor' archetype, but they're balanced in a way where they just kinda end up as a poor man's SoA.

 

As it stands, they're supposed to be your group's 'sniper', or something like that. The dude that spots and weakens priority targets, but with more emphasis on blasting than say, a corr or defender.

 

Problem is that a soldier of arachnos, for all intents and purposes, fills this role 5000% better. Between their leadership, debuffs and general usefulness at every level with their leadership, they're so much better at the hybrid blaster/support role as a baseline, even with most of their mace/pack abilities being garbage, the sheer amount of utility offered by venom nade and their leadership buffs can't be understated.

 

Best way to look at sentinels would be to loosen some of the AoE restrictions in some cases and make the inherent much less terrible to activate. The way nuke damage calculation works on targets that aren't taped to your forehead is so unnecessarily restrictive.

 

And unlike other things with the game, they can't blame Paragon for this one, Sentinels are a purely HC creation.

Edited June 3, 2021 by ScarySai

[Shazbotacus]

These are some agreeable thoughts on Sentinel.

[Hardboiled Hero]

5 hours ago, ScarySai said:

And unlike other things with the game, they can't blame Paragon for this one, Sentinels are a purely HC creation.

 

  My understanding is that sentinels were ready to go into playtesting when the live servers went down.  They were "released" by the guys that were running the private server that Homecoming is based on.. which is probably why it often feels like the sentinel could use some fine-tuning.

 

  As a side-note, I find myself thinking lately..  "You know, the sentinel probably should have been designed with assault sets instead of pure ranged sets."  That would keep the sentinel as mid range fighter, increase their damage, give them a use for their defensive set..  of course you wouldn't get to have your assault rifles and bows then..

[macskull]

7 minutes ago, Hardboiled Hero said:

  My understanding is that sentinels were ready to go into playtesting when the live servers went down.  They were "released" by the guys that were running the private server that Homecoming is based on.. which is probably why it often feels like the sentinel could use some fine-tuning.

They certainly weren't in the game files at shutdown like, say, Primalist was.

[MTeague]

On 5/30/2021 at 3:08 AM, Sunsette said:

No one uses the T9 on a sentinel secondary

 

Both of my Sentinels use their T9 secondaries. 

• Fire/FireFire because Rise of the Phoenix is part of my Damage Rotation Baby!  Plus concept requires him to be immortal, so having this power is important to me.
• Cold/Dark/Dark because Soul Transfer, and agian, I like having Self-Rezzes.

Is it a wise powergaming choice?  Probably not.  Are there more meta things I could take. Sure probably.  Do I care? No. Now that said, I'm willing to talk turkey on various Self-Rez powers. Giving them an effect that you can use while still alive, makes them more varied and more appealling for players to choose.  But don't be taking away my self-rezzes that come with X time of untouchable to retoggle my toggles.  I doubt I'm the only person who cares about these.

[Sunsette]

12 minutes ago, MTeague said:

 

Both of my Sentinels use their T9 secondaries. 

• Fire/FireFire because Rise of the Phoenix is part of my Damage Rotation Baby!  Plus concept requires him to be immortal, so having this power is important to me.
• Cold/Dark/Dark because Soul Transfer, and agian, I like having Self-Rezzes.

Is it a wise powergaming choice?  Probably not.  Are there more meta things I could take. Sure probably.  Do I care? No. Now that said, I'm willing to talk turkey on various Self-Rez powers. Giving them an effect that you can use while still alive, makes them more varied and more appealling for players to choose.  But don't be taking away my self-rezzes that come with X time of untouchable to retoggle my toggles.  I doubt I'm the only person who cares about these.

 

Those are good points. I made carve-outs for other powersets that don't follow the usual patterns and when I get a minute, I'll make similar carve-outs for the T9 secondaries.

[Force Redux]

Welcome back @Sunsette

[Mack008]

Minor changes I'd like to see:

-- Bump up the effectiveness of Leadership powers on a Sent.  

-- Increase the number of targets hit by AoEs.

-- A little boost to the -Res/-Def that comes with all attacks.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Mack008

[Hardboiled Hero]

I could see sentinel defensives coming with a clicky power or two that would temporarily give them taunt on their attacks and greatly increase their cc ability.  The idea here is to allow them to go into "tank mode" for a minute or two in case things go sideways.  The problem is that I kinda think 'trollers and doms are meant to shine in that situation.. but still it would put sentinels in a CC role that's only officially filled by two other AT's..  I think a problem of sentinel design at the moment is that they're literally competing for a role with every AT except the 'troller.

[Sunsette]

I get where you're coming from but the first power option on almost every epic is the best off-troller/dom controls a ranged can ask for. Usually an immob.

 

Due to how all or nothing CC is, and how many are immobs which dovetail with musculature alpha, i would argue it is actually the thing Sentinels best borrow from another AT.

 

I don't ever actually see target caps or taunting happening even though tank stuff is what I most want.

[Mack008]

Had a thought about improving Sentinel's inherent ability that would be straightforward to implement...

1) When Opportunity lands on a target, make the debuff a small radius AoE (10 feet or less) so that a group is affected.  For balance, might need to make the AoE effect less potent than the debuff applied to the target.

2) Make the debuff linger on the corpse and the surrounding area once that target is killed (er... 'arrested').

 

Those two changes would greatly increase the ability's utility without requiring a major overhaul.

 

Also, enlarge the debuff symbol to the size of the AoE, and ensure it remains visible to the team so everyone knows the Sentinel is doing his special thing.

 

--EDIT--

Alternate idea... make the benefit from Offensive/Defense Opportunity a small PBAoE buff, so the Sentinel's teammates gain from it.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Mack008