MM idea for dual use on Enhanced pet buff.

[Dahkness]

Upgrade bots, demons, thugs..ect. Give it a dual use. I would like to see it effect you as well if you want to still play MM but don't want to go all pet build. Have it upgrade your ST powers you have that no one picks. Maybe make them stronger or add an aoe effect to them. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Dahkness

[Wavicle]

How would you arrange it so that it those MMs with pets weren't made too powerful by doing this?

[Dahkness]

I can’t say. I had a fast pace play style in mind. Most experienced Cors, defenders and trollers clear mobs much faster then most MMs I see. I was just thinking of something to make a MM more fast paced in groups. I would love to see MMs more on par with the other support ATs. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Dahkness

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, Dahkness said:

I would love to see MMs more on par with the other support ATs. 

 

MMs are on a par with the other support ATs.

[Dahkness]

They’re still slow. I was looking for ways to speed them up in today’s meta. HC is doing a great job with recent updates to the AT. I don’t want to have to rely on pets for my only dmg. They’re no fun for endgame play when you’re running hardcore content. Pets just fizzle away so fast. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Dahkness

[Monos King]

2 hours ago, Dahkness said:

They’re still slow. I was looking for ways to speed them up in today’s meta

MMs have supreme single target killing ability, but fixing pet survivability is something that is on the devs radar without a doubt.

[Black Zot]

9 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

MMs are on a par with the other support ATs.

 

Not so long as they can instantly lose nearly all their damage to a single enemy Foot Stomp, they aren't.

[arcane]

I think you could add small buffs to the attacks, like how Swap Ammo does, but you couldn’t radically transform them. A Mastermind does not need to be able to be high functioning without pets.

 

As for Masterminds being slower at killing mobs (ofc they are faster at single target), that is obviously necessary for them because they are far more durable than any other support AT. They are the Tankers of support AT’s.

[arcane]

Just now, Black Zot said:

 

Not so long as they can instantly lose nearly all their damage to a single enemy Foot Stomp, they aren't.

They can now resummon over and over with basically no cooldown if needed. 

[Black Zot]

Just now, arcane said:

They can now resummon over and over with basically no cooldown if needed. 

 

At about the same rate as the aoe that deleted them in the first place recharges, yeah.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

At about the same rate as the aoe that deleted them in the first place recharges, yeah.

If a single AoE is wiping out all your pets reliably on every cast, I would guess you’re not leveraging your secondary very well. To say nothing of Def/Res aura procs. I have masterminds too, and am therefore not buying for a moment that it is half as bad as you say. Because it runs directly contrary to real experience that a decent mastermind is durable AF.

Edited June 10, 2021 by arcane

[Black Zot]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

If a single AoE is wiping out all your pets reliably on every cast, I would guess you’re not leveraging your secondary very well. To say nothing of Def/Res aura procs. I have masterminds too, and am therefore not buying for a moment that it is half as bad as you say. Because it runs directly contrary to real experience that a decent mastermind is durable AF.

 

IF you have a defense-buffing secondary that makes pets all but unhittable, AND you have time before engaging to get said buffs running, yeah, pets can be hard to kill as long as RNG feels like playing nice.  But those secondaries tend not to generate the DPS numbers you're claiming, and they still get gibbed when they roll that 1.

 

As for "not buying what I'm saying", you don't buy ANYTHING that doesn't present player characters as overpowered gods that need to be nerfed to the ground, so you really have no leg to stand on there.

[arcane]

12 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

As for "not buying what I'm saying", you don't buy ANYTHING that doesn't present player characters as overpowered gods that need to be nerfed to the ground, so you really have no leg to stand on there.

There’s certainly some truth here minus the fact that I don’t nerf herd. Pretty hard to make a bad character in this game once you’ve invested influence and made a build that focuses on addressing shortcomings.
 

You could certainly say we should talk about SO’s only, but all characters feel pretty shitty to me on SO’s, so I wouldn’t find that to be a very interesting point. 
 

None of that voids my experience though. If my masterminds can do well, logically so can yours.

Edited June 10, 2021 by arcane

[kelika2]

softcapped pets are happy pets

 

since mastermind pets do not get their masters IO bonuses, you have to take secondaries to compliment the primary like ye elden days of yesteryoreyear.  masterminds really peak at 50 with all their enhancements, slots and aura IO buffs.  frankenslotting hamis is also key.  2 or 3 cytos in prot bots and enforcers is game changing.  acc/dmg hamis allows room to maximize damage and slap in aura buff enhancements

 

ninja/dark

beast/cold

demon/thermal

bot/trap

thug/trap

are just some examples of def stacking, resist stacking or -tohit/+def stacking.  ninjas inherent isnt that bad with the 10% from aura IO buffs and -22%ish tohit from darknest night or fearsome stare while shadowfall's slotted def giving 5.5% def + maneuvers slotted 4.1% def.  my shadowfall is slotted 3 ribo hamis, 2 def, 1 lotg

 

while mercs and necromancy does not have anything to really compliment a secondary with i made merc/ff/dark and necro/dark/thermal work.  sorta.

 

[Black Zot]

6 minutes ago, arcane said:

None of that voids my experience though. If my masterminds can do well, logically so can yours.

 

If you have as much experience as you claim, then you know pets don't have the health to absorb big hits regardless of resists, and that being able to replace them quickly is only useful if the enemy doesn't glance in their direction before you get them re-buffed.

 

Masterminds can be strong as long as the encounter plays to their strengths.  Fortunately most encounters in CoH do that, being made of packs of enemies that hit lightly enough a pet can survive.  But the ones that don't, REALLY don't.  When an AV (or anything you can't shut down with the limited CC options available to a MM) has a big aoe, only sheer luck will leave any pets standing when it goes off.  (And only turning the speakers down will save you from permanent hearing damage, but that's an entirely different category of stupid design.)  

[Arbegla]

13 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

If you have as much experience as you claim, then you know pets don't have the health to absorb big hits regardless of resists, and that being able to replace them quickly is only useful if the enemy doesn't glance in their direction before you get them re-buffed.

 

Masterminds can be strong as long as the encounter plays to their strengths.  Fortunately most encounters in CoH do that, being made of packs of enemies that hit lightly enough a pet can survive.  But the ones that don't, REALLY don't.  When an AV (or anything you can't shut down with the limited CC options available to a MM) has a big aoe, only sheer luck will leave any pets standing when it goes off.  (And only turning the speakers down will save you from permanent hearing damage, but that's an entirely different category of stupid design.)  

 

Umm.. I routinely solo PACKS of AVs, and GMs. with my bot/traps MM.

 

Pets aren't nearly as squishy as you make them out to be.

[Wavicle]

10 hours ago, Dahkness said:

They’re still slow.

 

This has not been my experience.

  

10 hours ago, Dahkness said:

 They’re no fun for endgame play when you’re running hardcore content. Pets just fizzle away so fast. 

 

It sounds like you might be trying to do Incarnate content with a SOs build.

 

With IOs (in particular most of the Pet/Recharge Intensive Pet/MM ATO specials) you shouldn't be having much trouble.

[Dahkness]

Toneac

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

This has not been my experience.

  

 

It sounds like you might be trying to do Incarnate content with a SOs build.

 

With IOs (in particular most of the Pet/Recharge Intensive Pet/MM ATO specials) you shouldn't be having much trouble.

Yeah must feel real good killing at -1

Edited June 11, 2021 by Dahkness

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, Dahkness said:

Toneac

Yeah must feel real good killing at -1

 

I play my MMs on +1 at most levels, just like all my other toons.

[Greycat]

This idea might be more useful on the way *up,* when no, you're not all that powerful, offense is really sluggish and you're squishy with your couple of pets. Once you're IO'd and incarnated, honestly, I'd say it wouldn't matter. Everyone's overpowered then.

 

Granted, you also don't *have* your second buff 'til 32. But those lower levels are the times MMs are most annoying. (Especially 18-early/mid 20s when they're all -levels to you and you don't have your top tier hench-thing.) I don't know if the buff affecting you is the place to do anything, really - I'd almost put any sort of buff on a scale for how many henchthings you have. Basically a scale between personal offense (you don't have as much to give you bodyguard and the "extra HP" there, but your attacks and possibly de/buffs hit harder) and defense (full set, you have full bodyguard, de/buffs are at normal strength, attacks are the way they are now.) Sort of the reverse of the mechanic of the Kheld inherent, but focused solely on you and how many of your crew you have.

 

It'd also add a bit more of an element of adapting gameplay - sacrifice/kill your henchies to get a bigger buff when you need it, try to stay alive while resummoning to do your full damage. Or, well, wait for something to kill them off after using them as an alpha strike, hit whatever did it with a debuff, then resummon. Or try for a balance with just what you're resummoning. Just T2 and T3, upgraded, so you have a bit of a boost to your secondary and attacks? Does a situation come up where the best choice is just you and your top tier?  It'd have the potential to make things more dynamic, possibly.

 

*shrug* Just an idea or two.

[arcane]

12 hours ago, Dahkness said:

Toneac

Yeah must feel real good killing at -1

What are you saying here? That you play at -1 instead of +0 or +4? I don’t know that that’s like, common or anything?