So....hibernate.

[Ratch_]

Pending t9 armor set reworks, and having seen the drastic experiences in Icy Bastion vs Hibernate...well I am very jealous that a tanker and brute does not get Icy Bastion.

So I got to thinking and had this idea on what could be a small, yet simple improvement while also not changing the power in it's entirety. Afterall, being encased in a block of ice is pretty unique.

The power I looked to for inspiration was none other than Reaction Time. The sustain in Martial Combat for Blasters. This power has a small feature of when disabled (detoggled), you will receive a boost to recharge rate and move speed. What if we applied this same style of tech to hibernate?

The idea is that you activate Hibernate like normal, no behavior is changed here. When you detoggle the power, then some of the regen and recovery will permeate from the power for 30s ableit at a lower amount. Using Icy Bastion as a reference I was thinking numbers along the line of

Hibernate (toggled) -> +1000% Regeneration / +400% Recovery
   - On detoggle -> +400% Regeneration / +200% Recovery for 30s.

This would let you quickly toggle and detoggle the power so it's still useful in circumstances that you don't need to absolutely just withdraw from combat, while also still providing that option. Even though the base recharge of this power is 120s, you can't get it perma because you have to wait out the noPhase time of 120s. Thoughts?

Edited June 16, 2021 by Ratch_

[Ratch_]

Something of note, with 170% global recharge (pretty common for those chasing perma levels of hasten) and 95% recharge slotted in Icy Bastion it has 30s uptime and 52s downtime. If Hibernate was added 30s of Regen/Recov then it would have a 30s uptime with a 90s downtime. Just some food for thought, and this doesn't even consider that Icy Bastion provides 37.% resistance to all types with the exception of Psionic. 

[Dark Dove]

It's an interesting idea, I've not yet found a good use for Hibernate on any character ever, Tanker or not (it's available in some epic pools). It's a difficult power to further incentivize without damaging the balance, and there are people who put it to good use in the state of the power currently (allegedly-I've never seen it in game be used to good effect by someone else either, but someone always chimes in and says they like it).

 

Might be more appropriate for the Suggestions and Feedback forum section, although it's a minefield of bad-faith and unwelcoming users, the developers or staff read all of the suggestions (allegedly) and your ideas might be considered.

[Ratch_]

Went ahead and moved this topic over onto the suggestions section of the forums, thanks.

[Sovera]

I find interesting to see Icy Bastion drooled on so much when it doesn't seem particularly interesting to me. Resistances are fine and all but what tends to kill people are a massive case of the debuffs to which Icy Bastion doesn't really do much about.

 

Now a full heal (ok, it takes a few seconds to get to full) I can pop every one minute (not every three minutes), and not just that, but it cleanses debuffs (in the sense we can huddle in and let the debuff wear off) and a great panic button (complete and utter invulnerability)? With no crash? And it refills endurance?

 

Damn, I'm kinda jealous. Even Barrier takes two minutes to cycle for a panic button usage.

 

The downside is losing agro but this is not the bad problem it used to be back on live (and I say this as someone who played up to I14) since most people nowadays are durable enough to survive 10-15 seconds (we don't need to use the full 30 seconds of Hibernate) before the Tanker comes out and starts rounding up mobs.

 

 

As much poo pooing as Hibernate gets as far as I'm concerned both it and the freezing/slowing aura are the reasons to take the set.

[Ratch_]

25 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I find interesting to see Icy Bastion drooled on so much when it doesn't seem particularly interesting to me. Resistances are fine and all but what tends to kill people are a massive case of the debuffs to which Icy Bastion doesn't really do much about.

 

Now a full heal (ok, it takes a few seconds to get to full) I can pop every one minute (not every three minutes), and not just that, but it cleanses debuffs (in the sense we can huddle in and let the debuff wear off) and a great panic button (complete and utter invulnerability)? With no crash? And it refills endurance?

 

Damn, I'm kinda jealous. Even Barrier takes two minutes to cycle for a panic button usage.

 

The downside is losing agro but this is not the bad problem it used to be back on live (and I say this as someone who played up to I14) since most people nowadays are durable enough to survive 10-15 seconds (we don't need to use the full 30 seconds of Hibernate) before the Tanker comes out and starts rounding up mobs.

 

 

As much poo pooing as Hibernate gets as far as I'm concerned both it and the freezing/slowing aura are the reasons to take the set.

Understandable, and nothing about the things that you like Hibernate for would change at all. I am just simply wanting to bridge the gap between these two powers.

Icy Bastion is drooled over (at least for me) because it provides resistance and regeneration in a set that has very little to none. It's a perfect example of the t9 being desirable because it fills holes in a set on a semi regular rotation with no crash (up more often even than Hibernate!). 

The downside to me isn't the fact that I lose aggro but the fact that I can't continue to play the game actively. It's a great panic button, and I don't want to change the core of the power. It's unique. I am just wanting to bridge the gap between these two powers so they are a more similar power level, by providing closer stats while still being different.

The +res is debuff resistance as well so it helps. Ice armor is a set that can rock out >50% defense debuff resistance, and can cap S/L/E/N defense reliably, and cap maxHP. The only thing it's missing is a reliable heal and more resist, which icy bastion both directly provides. It's very solid. 

[Sir Myshkin]

On 6/16/2021 at 11:44 AM, Ratch_ said:

The +res is debuff resistance as well so it helps. Ice armor is a set that can rock out >50% defense debuff resistance, and can cap S/L/E/N defense reliably, and cap maxHP. The only thing it's missing is a reliable heal and more resist, which icy bastion both directly provides. It's very solid. 

 

Devil's Advocate on this.

 

Even in the case of a light build with no Hasten, Hibernate can be up within 40-45/s, and doesn't require a player to be encapsulated the entire 30/s, that's purely amusement at that point. Most builds will be fully healed within 10-15/s, it's running at a base line of 1,000% Regen boost. That is a heal at that point. Once a minute the Tank gets a full debuff cleanse and a full HP bar. Icy Bastion cannot compete with that from a safety-net stand point. Yes the player may be able to continue active engagement with enemies during the recovery period, but the separation is coming down to A) 100% Immunity and Full Heal versus B) Improved Survival and Health, both cover the same duration of time, but one guarantees safety and health where the other only extends the expression of hope. One requires the temporary sacrifice of mobility with a duration based on player discretion, the other does not.

 

You're argument is that Hibernate is not a reliable Heal, but it is in-fact a better, stronger option than Icy Bastion which is also just Regen based, and that it adds Resistance factor. Yes additional Resistance is a nice addition, but as Sovera pointed out Hibernate uniquely fills a hole that is otherwise rather difficult to get rid of in most other conditions within this game, and that is the ability to buy time to clear debuffs. On average most significant debuffs will be gone within 5-10/s, but if a cascade has been allowed this can be massively negative and hard to survive, but Hibernate is nearly instant immortality (30/s of it no less) once it activates making it possible for the Tanker to clear those debuffs and regenerate in time to come back into the fight strong and fresh. Icy Bastion just flat-out can't compete with that, and it is a specific aspect in how Ice Armor was designed despite it not being a very flashy or impressive T9, it is acutely the most frequently usable one.

[Carnifax]

On 6/16/2021 at 5:10 PM, Sovera said:

 

Now a full heal (ok, it takes a few seconds to get to full) I can pop every one minute (not every three minutes), and not just that, but it cleanses debuffs (in the sense we can huddle in and let the debuff wear off) and a great panic button (complete and utter invulnerability)? With no crash? And it refills endurance?

 

Damn, I'm kinda jealous. Even Barrier takes two minutes to cycle for a panic button usage.

 

The downside is losing agro but this is not the bad problem it used to be back on live (and I say this as someone who played up to I14) since most people nowadays are durable enough to survive 10-15 seconds (we don't need to use the full 30 seconds of Hibernate) before the Tanker comes out and starts rounding up mobs.

But anyone* with access to Icy Bastion can also get Hibernate in the Epics. My Ice/Ice/FishBoy scrapper has both. Bastion before I jump into something tough. Hibernate if it turns out that they were tougher than expected. That combo has allowed me to do things like survive +4 Bile after he wiped the team, including the Incarnate Brute who specifically joined to tank him. 

 

(Random thought. Maybe Tanks and Brutes should be given a new Epic pool with Icy Bastion in it somewhere?)

 

* Maybe not sentinals, I dunno

Edited June 18, 2021 by Carnifax

[Ratch_]

5 hours ago, Carnifax said:

But anyone* with access to Icy Bastion can also get Hibernate in the Epics. My Ice/Ice/FishBoy scrapper has both. Bastion before I jump into something tough. Hibernate if it turns out that they were tougher than expected. That combo has allowed me to do things like survive +4 Bile after he wiped the team, including the Incarnate Brute who specifically joined to tank him. 

 

(Random thought. Maybe Tanks and Brutes should be given a new Epic pool with Icy Bastion in it somewhere?)

 

* Maybe not sentinals, I dunno

There are plenty of cases where powers in the ancillary have not gotten the new adjustments and I don't see this being any different. This change would only be for brutes and tankers.

[Ratch_]

10 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

 

Devil's Advocate on this.

 

Even in the case of a light build with no Hasten, Hibernate can be up within 40-45/s, and doesn't require a player to be encapsulated the entire 30/s, that's purely amusement at that point. Most builds will be fully healed within 10-15/s, it's running at a base line of 1,000% Regen boost. That is a heal at that point. Once a minute the Tank gets a full debuff cleanse and a full HP bar. Icy Bastion cannot compete with that from a safety-net stand point. Yes the player may be able to continue active engagement with enemies during the recovery period, but the separation is coming down to A) 100% Immunity and Full Heal versus B) Improved Survival and Health, both cover the same duration of time, but one guarantees safety and health where the other only extends the expression of hope. One requires the temporary sacrifice of mobility with a duration based on player discretion, the other does not.

 

You're argument is that Hibernate is not a reliable Heal, but it is in-fact a better, stronger option than Icy Bastion which is also just Regen based, and that it adds Resistance factor. Yes additional Resistance is a nice addition, but as Sovera pointed out Hibernate uniquely fills a hole that is otherwise rather difficult to get rid of in most other conditions within this game, and that is the ability to buy time to clear debuffs. On average most significant debuffs will be gone within 5-10/s, but if a cascade has been allowed this can be massively negative and hard to survive, but Hibernate is nearly instant immortality (30/s of it no less) once it activates making it possible for the Tanker to clear those debuffs and regenerate in time to come back into the fight strong and fresh. Icy Bastion just flat-out can't compete with that, and it is a specific aspect in how Ice Armor was designed despite it not being a very flashy or impressive T9, it is acutely the most frequently usable one.

The issue with this is that it does not matter how often Hibernate can be up. It gives you the no phase debuff which means you can only activate Hibernate once every 2 minutes....

To elaborate, right now you can activate Icy Bastion twice or you can activate Hibernate once in the time span of 2 minutes. I feel that speaks for itself.  

Edit: If there ever was a change where I don't need to worry about a noPhase cooldown timer in PvE then sure, I would be completely fine with the power as is. But as it currently stands, I don't remember having to wait a whole two minutes back in the day when I used hibernate. (When did this happen? Has it always been there and my memory is fuzzy?) I really don't think this always used to be there, as having a 2 min base cooldown seems nonsensical with a 2 minute no phase timer.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Ratch_

[Sir Myshkin]

11 hours ago, Ratch_ said:

The issue with this is that it does not matter how often Hibernate can be up. It gives you the no phase debuff which means you can only activate Hibernate once every 2 minutes....

...That ...doesn't sound right.

 

checks in game

 

Huh, there is a noPhase auto lock out activated. I'll be honest I don't remember that ever existing, but I can't exactly say I've put excessive hours in my Ice Tanker to have noticed if/when on that one, and my build never focused on a high-recharge Hibernate in the first place so I wouldn't have personally ever paid attention to it.

 

However! The noPhase lockout is not 120/s, but appears to only be ~85/s, why an odd number I don't know but I activated, the auto hits, I turned Hibernate off after 5/s, and I can reactivate Hibernate within 80/s, so it's definitely not a full two minute lock out either way. Someone call Orkin! @Captain Powerhouse Hey Zed, we got a Bug.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Sir Myshkin
called the wrong Orkin person.

[Ratch_]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

...That ...doesn't sound right.

 

checks in game

 

Huh, there is a noPhase auto lock out activated. I'll be honest I don't remember that ever existing, but I can't exactly say I've put excessive hours in my Ice Tanker to have noticed if/when on that one, and my build never focused on a high-recharge Hibernate in the first place so I wouldn't have personally ever paid attention to it.

 

However! The noPhase lockout is not 120/s, but appears to only be ~85/s, why an odd number I don't know but I activated, the auto hits, I turned Hibernate off after 5/s, and I can reactivate Hibernate within 80/s, so it's definitely not a full two minute lock out either way. Someone call Orkin! @Captain Powerhouse Hey Zed, we got a Bug.

You're right, it's 1m30s exactly (the timer starts on toggle activation)

Edited June 19, 2021 by Ratch_

[Carnifax]

7 hours ago, Ratch_ said:

You're right, it's 1m30s exactly (the timer starts on toggle activation)

That makes more sense. Tested it on my Scrapper yesterday with a 1:21 recharge and it was recharged but unavailable for 5-6 seconds.

[Blackfeather]

10 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

...That ...doesn't sound right.

 

checks in game

 

Huh, there is a noPhase auto lock out activated. I'll be honest I don't remember that ever existing, but I can't exactly say I've put excessive hours in my Ice Tanker to have noticed if/when on that one, and my build never focused on a high-recharge Hibernate in the first place so I wouldn't have personally ever paid attention to it.

 

However! The noPhase lockout is not 120/s, but appears to only be ~85/s, why an odd number I don't know but I activated, the auto hits, I turned Hibernate off after 5/s, and I can reactivate Hibernate within 80/s, so it's definitely not a full two minute lock out either way. Someone call Orkin! @Captain Powerhouse Hey Zed, we got a Bug.

 

 

Quote

Other Powers Changes

•  Phase Powers
  • The No Phase suppression window for all powers (PvE and PvP) has been reduced from 2 minutes to 90 seconds

 

[Sovera]

I wasn't even aware of that dumb PvP rule bleeding all over my PvE.

[Sir Myshkin]

19 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

 Phase Powers

In-game text on the NoPhase indicator still says 120/s, hasn’t been updated. 
 

14 hours ago, Sovera said:

I wasn't even aware of that dumb PvP rule bleeding all over my PvE.

 

You’re apparently not the only one.