Is it time to do something about ATOs?

[Greycat]

So, once more browsing through for fun things to throw on characters, I notice ATOs are still... nowhere close to meeting supply with demand. Quite a few are at single digit levels, with swathes of the Brute section at zero - and they seem to be there quite often.

 

And unlike other rare items - rare (though it's not, really) salvage, purples, etc. these rely on players doing something specific to supply - spending merits or gambling 10m inf per shot on a superpack (and getting an AT enhancement... something that isn't guaranteed.) They don't drop. They can't be crafted. The only other items really like that, enhancement wise, are the winter IOs (which have the packs cost even more most of the year.)

 

With these not being a drop, there's not a lot of incentive for players to pick them up and put them on the market. (Granted, they go from 7-25m, including winter IOs, and the catalyzed winter IOs can get over 30m each.)

 

I don't have an issue with the pricing, just the availability.  So... is it time to do some tweaking?

 

The options I can think of are these:

 

- ATOs drop directly. Still rare drops, though available at a wider range than purples. Gives a little more incentive for "I can't use this, I'll throw it on the market" instead of "HOARD!"

 

- Super packs drop or are an option for some content rewards. This could have a bit more impact, market-wise, as other useful things (like merits, special salvage and the like) come as part of them. Of course, non-tradeable items also are part of the packs, which may offset that. Might involve time limits so they're not just farmed. I'd leave that up to the devs and numbers folks.

 

- ATOs drop, but as recipes. Still rare, has the side effect of pulling INF out of the economy potentially twice (on crafting and through AH fees if sold.) ALso, granted, has the chance to lose money if someone sells or vendors the recipe, but ya takes yer chances...

 

- Something else? Honestly, I'm not sure what other ideas there are that might not do odd things to the economy. Combining other enhancements?

[Bopper]

It'll get flooded enough again soon. I've noticed ATOs selling for 8mil again. At an average of 1.2 ATOs per superpack, you practically get your money back (9.6M on average, about 8.6M after tax). I wouldn't be surprised if marketeers go back to flipping super packs again and supply the market with ATOs

[Outrider_01]

They can be converted from one AT to another when supply is low, but a 1/13 chance among the AT.

[Vanden]

Some of those have low supply, but I've never failed to get my ATOs by just putting up some reasonable bids and waiting a day.

[Supertanker]

Eh, Merits seem to come pretty easily these days. Just buy the ATOs with them.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Supertanker

[Wavicle]

The idea that there are any rewards that are not already (if anything) TOO easy to get in HC is kinda silly. It doesn't need to be made any easier.

[GraspingVileTerror]

Give players a series of Badges for listing ATOs at 1 Inf on the market, and we'll see some movement!

Bonus points if these Badges can all be part of an Accolade which increases the odds of an ATO drop from a Super Pack by 10%!

[AerialAssault]

While I've not really seen the shortage myself, I'm all for expanding rewards for playing. 

 

Perhaps an ATO could be an alternate reward for doing the Weekly Strike Target, or hell, even just completing a Task Force/Strike Force once a week. Running the full Freedom Phalanx would net you with several and might encourage people to do them more often.

[MTeague]

I don't see any need for a change. It's not hard to scoop up some of the lesser used one and convert them 10-20 times.

And it's not that hard to squirrel away enough money to buy a few superpacks yourself.

 

Mostly I'm with @Bopper. These things come and go in cycles. If people notice a price spike as certain ATO's get rare, you'll see a lot more go on the market as people try to cash in. Maybe they'll be converted-used-to-be-Kheldian ATO's.  Maybe they'll be ATO's from a freshly bought pack. I've seen dry spells and floods a couple times since Jun 2019. Not really thinking developer action is warranted yet.

[arcane]

Was a shortage still observed after checking the availability of the purple variant?

[Uun]

They can still be purchased from the Merit Vendor, albeit for 100 merits each.

[MsSmart]

Mmm....

 

     I like to see IOs such as ATOs, and Winters  being able to be earned or gained besides the merit award system. Being that the intent of those IOs are to be special rewards, that would complicate the stew pot.

 

    I suggest to treat these, somewhat similar to incarnate salvage, and at the end of the weekly TFs an additional choice be given to the player to receive merits or a choice of ATO/Winter IO, by being the weekly, you could only opt for them once a week per character.

 

Hugs

 

Sue

 

[Luminara]

Sounds like they're working very well as an inflationary control measure.  I'd leave things alone.

[Yomo Kimyata]

My solution is to raise the price from 10mm to 25mm, like Winter O's (I'd be ok with occasional sales discounts, like during Halloween or May).  I'd argue that most ATOs are fundamentally more "valuable" than WOs, and as far as I can tell the "other stuff" dropping in packs is roughly similar across the three types of packs.  

 

Fold that in with a very rare drop rate as well as being able to buy them on the AH and Bob's your uncle.

[Vanden]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

My solution is to raise the price from 10mm to 25mm, like Winter O's (I'd be ok with occasional sales discounts, like during Halloween or May).  I'd argue that most ATOs are fundamentally more "valuable" than WOs, and as far as I can tell the "other stuff" dropping in packs is roughly similar across the three types of packs.  

 

Fold that in with a very rare drop rate as well as being able to buy them on the AH and Bob's your uncle.

 

Um... I don’t think that’s gonna solve the problem Greycat was seeing.

[Yomo Kimyata]

13 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

Um... I don’t think that’s gonna solve the problem Greycat was seeing.

 

If the problem is "not enough supply available", then it probably would.  If the problem is "not enough supply at the price I want to pay", then I don't see that as a problem.  More of a primer in basic economics.

[Marbing]

The supply is fine as is. I have never had any issues. Get some Merits and you will be fine. Making highly valuable enhancements more available is only going to A) break the market and B) make it that much easier to play a game that is already super easy. I say buff the content, make the game harder, not just stronger enemies but complex scenarios as well. 

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

If the problem is "not enough supply available", then it probably would.  If the problem is "not enough supply at the price I want to pay", then I don't see that as a problem.  More of a primer in basic economics.

The supply vs demand dynamic breaks down a bit for goods deemed essential no matter what. So is it possible this wouldn’t help because ATO’s are like cigarettes? Serious novice economics question.

[zenblack]

The market can decide. Since there are multiple ways for people to get them there is no need to change it outside of reward variety on mission/TF/GM/Badges.

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

If the problem is "not enough supply available", then it probably would.  If the problem is "not enough supply at the price I want to pay", then I don't see that as a problem.

 

It's the first. I even specifically said in the original post, I don't have a problem with the pricing, just the availability.

 

I'm fine with them being at the (roughly) 7-15m they seem to run between.

 

There are a few that have 1-2 in stock out there that someone has listed far higher, apparently (I've bid over that range, so I'm guessing over 20m.) I'm not throwing INF that's that far over the average - I'll buy two superpacks and convert at that amount. ;)  (Which, with the number of bids in - and I figure half at least are lowballing - I don't seem to be the only one thinking that.)

 

And yes, I know they can be purchased with merits. Personally I'd purchase a winter one on a 50, catalyze (since my 50s tend to have plenty of catalysts drop) and sell the superior if I'm burning 100 merits on that, then do the superpack-and-conversion. Even buying directly with merits, though - or buying superpacks, converting and hoarding - that doesn't help the AH supply question I was considering.

 

Which, after all, was the point of asking the question. ;)

[Yomo Kimyata]

That's what I figured!  It's a strange market, and frankly not particularly profitable, so there's not a lot of incentive to get people to buy packs and post them.  I buy and sell 100-300 packs a week, not for profit, but to get merits into my Character Items inbox.  I'd never sell them at 1 inf like VT does, but I rarely distinguish between sets.  When I do list my brute and blaster sets at over 10mm, they usually languish for days if not weeks, so it's really not worth my time to distinguish among ATs.  

 

I'm serious about increasing the prices of the hero packs.  Yes, prices on the ATOs would probably double, but I think many more people would get involved in buying, opening, maybe converting, and selling the contents.  It would also stop the constant hectoring of people saying, "How dare you waste your merits on ATOs!!!".

[Wavicle]

I don't believe anyone has articulated a convincing, positive argument for WHY ATOs should be more available. Without that, the thread is pretty pointless, as it seems to be based on an unsupported assumption that there is a "correct" level of availability that is not currently being met.

 

Between what ATOs ARE on the market, converters, and merits, everything is attainable, so it seems like the complaint is "I OUGHT to be able to buy anything I want instantly with Inf" and that "ought" has not been justified nor has anyone even really attempted to justify it.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Wavicle

[SwitchFade]

Hi.

 

Oh look, economics.

 

Increasing the supply of ATO would not necessarily increase the availability, as we do not yet know where the market transitions from equilibrium to surplus.

 

Currently, if there are bids and zero supply over a sufficiently long enough period to account for seasonality, we have a shortage situation. Heretofore, we lack sufficient evidence to decisively conclude the market is indeed in a shortage.

 

By increasing supply, we would see a shift in equilibrium pricing, causing it to trend lower, as well as a better feel for the actual total market demand.

 

That said, it's likely that what we are observing is seasonality, known AH bugs and the fact that all goods are normal and substitutable, rendering less incentive to sell certain items, as they can be converted.

 

A small increase in supply of ATO would not change the observed zero availability, it would simply cause equilibrium pricing to shift lower for ALL ATO, vis-a-vis the previously mentioned normal and substitutable goods.

[golstat2003]

12 hours ago, th0ughtGun said:

The supply is fine as is. I have never had any issues. Get some Merits and you will be fine. Making highly valuable enhancements more available is only going to A) break the market and B) make it that much easier to play a game that is already super easy. I say buff the content, make the game harder, not just stronger enemies but complex scenarios as well. 

 

In optional difficulty sure. Not at the base level.

[nihilii]

11 hours ago, Greycat said:

It's the first. I even specifically said in the original post, I don't have a problem with the pricing, just the availability.

Since you opened this thread, I've started working on the problem through opening a fair amount of Super Packs.

My guidelines for pricing:

- all ATOs under 10 supply = 10,111,111 inf

- all ATOs under 2 supply = 15,111,111 inf

- Blaster/Brute ATOs = 15,111,111 inf

- Blaster/Brute ATOs with 0-1 supply = 20,111,111 inf

 

Either ATOs are currently underpriced relative to demand and I make a lot of money; or ATOs are correctly priced and there should be some supply for a while.

 

Feel free to ping me if we drop to 0 supply on any ATO, or for that matter, to undercut me.