Temporary Confront (Affront)

[SeraphimKensai]

From time to time you're on a team and there's no tank, and you weren't expecting to tank, and the big guys are beating up your buddies, it falls on you to step up and protect the rest of your team. Sure you're no tank, brute, scrapper, but you don't have a choice, its either you take the world on your shoulders or people are going to die...

 

Therefore, how about a new pay 2 win, temporary confront? We wouldn't want it to a clone of Taunt or Provoke as that would probably be overkill, but to get agro on 1 target, we have Confront from Scrappers as a model....

 

Confront's unenhanced base stats are as follows:

Recharge: 3 sec, Range: 70', Cast Time: 1.67s, Range: -75% (Tgt)

Accuracy: 75%*, Duration: 23.1s, Taunt 23.1s (Tgt) (The *on Accuracy only applies to PvP Targets)

 

New Temp Power: Affront (30 Charges)

Provides 30 Charges of the Affront temp power. You may purchase up to 300 charges. 50,000 influence/30 charges.

 

Affront is a slightly modified clone of Confront, stats below:

Recharge: 10 seconds, Range: 60', Cast Time: 1.67s, Accuracy: 75%, Duration: 10s, Taunt 10s (Tgt). Note: there's no -range on Affront, and also has a 75% accuracy in PvE. Stat wise, it is the weakest between Confront, Taunt, or Provoke, since this does not require a power pick, and only useful for characters to help get agro on a mob that might be overwhelming an ally, or prone to running. Also can't enhance the stats on Affront.

 

What do you all think? Would something like this be useful to you? Is it overtuned? undertuned? just right?

 

As usual thanks.

[GraspingVileTerror]

For consideration:

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Presence#Challenge

[SeraphimKensai]

Challenge works as a name too if people want the nostalgia back. I didn't want to step on it's toes too much as I came up with custom proposed stat values which are aimed at being lower than all the existing power picked versions of taunts.

 

I think the idea has a ton of merit that wouldn't really be game breaking by any means, it's more of your watching your friend get worked over to a pulp and you're trying to take the big bad's attention for a moment while your friend gets a chance to rez or get healed up.

[biostem]

The problem, IMO, is that the P2W vendor already steps on the toes of so many other powers/pools/sets.  I don't think we need to go even further with it...

[Razor Cure]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

The problem, IMO, is that the P2W vendor already steps on the toes of so many other powers/pools/sets.  I don't think we need to go even further with it...

I get the point here but..isnt it already way too late?

Temp travels basically invalidate (at least until the recent travel update) most travels.

Recall powers invalidate the tp pool.

Extra attacks well..you get the idea.

What about Recovery Serum?

The power boosts? Sure, those are pricey, but to someone with a lot of money, its nothing.

Or how about AE farms basically invalidating the level up speed of all other content in game?

 

Obviously I am pushing examples to the extreme but a simple temp taunt power, compared to some of the above, it literally going to inpact like 0.5% of content, if that!

 

The BEST argument in favour (in my view) is how utterly stupid and annoying it is, trying to fight an AV with no immobs or tauntlike powers, and they keep running all over the map.

[biostem]

34 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

I get the point here but..isnt it already way too late?

Temp travels basically invalidate (at least until the recent travel update) most travels.

Recall powers invalidate the tp pool.

Extra attacks well..you get the idea.

What about Recovery Serum?

The power boosts? Sure, those are pricey, but to someone with a lot of money, its nothing.

Or how about AE farms basically invalidating the level up speed of all other content in game?

 

Obviously I am pushing examples to the extreme but a simple temp taunt power, compared to some of the above, it literally going to inpact like 0.5% of content, if that!

 

The BEST argument in favour (in my view) is how utterly stupid and annoying it is, trying to fight an AV with no immobs or tauntlike powers, and they keep running all over the map.

Then we are at an impasse - do we open the floodgates or say "here and no further"?

[GraspingVileTerror]

I say "over there, and maybe no further, for now" while pointing past the point of P2W Challenge/Affront.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by GraspingVileTerror
Additional context for clarity.

[Doomguide2005]

     Introducing "Temporary Man", the hero of the moment! All powers are just the sort never used while 'soloing AVs" provided by your friendly p2w vendor, crafted on empowerment stations or otherwise gained from your local contacts.

 

     Don't know if this crosses that line but think it'll be rough making it worthy of having as compared to just blasting, debuffing or both the foe in question while not becoming an equal or better choice than actual taunting powers (Confront et al).  

[Razor Cure]

40 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

think it'll be rough making it worthy of having as compared to just blasting, debuffing or both the foe in question

both blasting and debuffing does not stop AVs running about like headless chickens in the absence of taunts or immobs.

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

both blasting and debuffing does not stop AVs running about like headless chickens in the absence of taunts or immobs.

    True, but "taunt" is merely one part of the equation for generating threat though granted a strong one.   And most non-melee sets for which this temp power is aimed at have at least access to an Immobilize and would be well advised to have taken it for just this reason.  And if you're using it to pull a threat off a teammate in trouble ... well the AV, EB, boss, etc., taking off over the treeline might be welcome if not ideal.

    And if about someone tanking for a team lacking a 'tank' then you really need to aggro the whole spawn.  A single target Affront or Challenge isn't really the ticket you want to punch.  But then in my experience teams of 8 support/non-melee rarely need to classically tank the spawn.

    In about i12 or so I was working on a second build for one of my Empaths a build intended to take on a 3 boss level 54 RWZ spawn of Rikti (solo).  Joined a team and forgot to swap out of the alt build.  And as it happened the team didn't really seem to have anyone who wanted to engage the spawns.  My Empath proceeded to initiate the attacks taking the alpha and in general aggro'd the spawns getting most of the attention. A single target taunt power would have been fairly useless in keeping things focused my way.  It was tricky enough as Sonic Attack, her secondary, isn't really known for AoE capability.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Clarity and punctuation

[Razor Cure]

16 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

And most non-melee sets for which this temp power is aimed at have at least access to an Immobilize and would be well advised to have taken it for just this reason.

You saw the part where I said a temp taunt would be good for those without taunts OR immobs? I know you saw it..because you quoted it. Only Doms, trollers, and blasters always have an immob. Thats 3 ATs out of them all. Likewise, only tanks and brutes always get taunt (usually in auras, since a lot dont take ranged taunt). Again, that leaves a lot of ATs without taunt.

And yeah, presence pool and all. But making the argument that a temp taunt would be worthless makes zero sense..given the other crazy amount of temp powers that step on the toes of pool powers.

If someone wants to be able to taunt on the odd occasion, to HELP a team, why shouldn't they be able to have access to a basic taunt? In the same way that I use fly packs now and again to make travel easier. For me, no way in hell I am taking Fly (even the new tweaked pool), so that temp is great, as it saves me wasting a pool pick on one I dislike, JUST to be able to get the odd benefit. Me being able to temp fly does not break the game at all.

Likewise, a temp taunt doesnt break anything. It doesnt make anyone OP (sure, anyone could then taunt, but you still need to be able to survive at least a moment). It would just be a nice power to use in certain situations...exactly the same as every other P2W power.

 

 

[Ghost]

I’d like to see this power have a downside.  If used for ANY reason while on a team with a Tank or Brute, whatever you aggro delivers a one-shot kill.  No exceptions.

🙂

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Ghost

[GraspingVileTerror]

I mean, a more reasonable downside might be that your Defense is lowered by 5 in every category, and your Resistance by 10 likewise.  A trade-off like that is at least a little thematic too.  You mock someone and open yourself up as a target to try and get them to stop attacking your ally.  "Come at me, bro," as they say.

[Razor Cure]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

I’d like to see this power have a downside.  If used for ANY reason while on a team with a Tank or Brute, whatever you aggro delivers a one-shot kill.  No exceptions.

While not a bad idea, is there ANY real downside to any of the other P2W powers?

[Doomguide2005]

     To be clear I'm not particularly against it, if another temp power is added so be it.  I just think it's going to be hard to walk the line between useless and still less potent than the presence pool and more effective than slapping the target with say Cosmic Burst or a fast snipe etc..

 

      And forced to take is not the same as 'access to', though I will admit I didn't run through all the ATs to double check but yes for Defenders, Corruptors, Masterminds ... and I stopped checking at that point.  But if this is important to the player well most (if not all) ATs it seems do have access when desired for stopping AVs and others from running all over the place.  

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Ghost said:

I’d like to see this power have a downside.  If used for ANY reason while on a team with a Tank or Brute, whatever you aggro delivers a one-shot kill.  No exceptions.

🙂

 

     If this potential temp power ever pulled aggro off a Tanker or Brute I'd be amazed.  That's not to say giving it a downside is necessarily a bad idea.

    

[SeraphimKensai]

On 7/1/2021 at 9:17 PM, Ghost said:

I’d like to see this power have a downside.  If used for ANY reason while on a team with a Tank or Brute, whatever you aggro delivers a one-shot kill.  No exceptions.

🙂

 

When I worked out the numbers between tanker, brute,  scrapper taunts, auras, and such because of the limited durations on this, it would be almost impossible to pull agro from a tank, or brute. Even difficult to do when people use Provoke.

 

That said you would pull agro on a single mob, and not a group, so it really minimizes any toe stepping as much as possible.

[Haijinx]

On 6/30/2021 at 3:58 PM, biostem said:

The problem, IMO, is that the P2W vendor already steps on the toes of so many other powers/pools/sets.  I don't think we need to go even further with it...

 

Blasphemy!  We love our power creep here!

[Haijinx]

On 7/1/2021 at 11:21 PM, Razor Cure said:

While not a bad idea, is there ANY real downside to any of the other P2W powers?

 

Filling up your trays with all those gray icons?