Grav/Savage Dom Questions

[Wreckoning]

So I've been mucking around with Grav Dom's lately.  I just rolled a Grav/Savage Melee Dom and I am curious about something, do I have to bother with Propel at all?  Seems to me I have plenty of attacks in the secondary.  Along the same lines, do I bother slotting Lift?  I mean I had to take it (single target root is worthless imo) but does it really fit into an attack chain with Savage Melee?

[Onlyasandwich]

Lift is actually pretty decent damage when slotted up and attacking something with gravity distortion applied. Personally I have it as a set mule primarily, but I do use it often enough to appreciate the enhancement. What you do here depends on how you value ranged IO bonuses, and how tight the the build is otherwise.

 

I'm not sure from your comment if you already understood this, but lift is not a root. It is a knock up with slightly delayed damage, and bonus damage when attacking something with gravity distortion applied. The soft control is actually pretty nice.

 

I don't think propel is a good choice for doms unless you just really like it for theme. It's not bad, but you can create a better attack chain in your secondary without it.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Wreckoning]

9 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

"I'm not sure from your comment if you already understood this, but lift is not a root."

 

I was referring to how you have to pick between the root and lift and how the root is not a better option.

 

Thank you for your response 🙂

Edited July 2, 2021 by Wreckoning

[Onlyasandwich]

That seems obvious to me now! Apologies.

[laudwic]

I have a Grav/Savage Dom that I've taken to 50 and unlocked all of his incarnates.  

 

Frankly, it depends on how you play.  I almost exclusively soloed at level until early 40s (permadom) then +1 or +2. team size one doing red side content.  That meant I was generally fighting groups of three enemies at range.  If you group a lot, you can certainly play the dominator version of a blapper.  I personally think your better off doing that as a brute.  Melee hits harder and Dominators just don't have the defense.

 

I five slot Lift with the Decimation set into it to add 6.25% recharge time.  

 

IMO, with a dominator, all your slotting should be going towards trying to get to permadom.  It is very achievable before 50 and it makes a world of difference. 

 

At early levels I tried to stay at range which meant I didn't use the majority of savage much.  My range attack sequence was generally: Gravity Distortion on the worst enemy, use propel, use lift, then call swarm.  Gravity Distortion was generally recharged by then.  I went with the idea that I would have one held, propel would generally knock others down.  Lift and propel had decent damage when you consider the bonus for having used Gravity Distortion.  I also went with the idea if they are flying through the air or getting up they aren't attacking me. 

 

I put Ascendency of the Dominator IO set in Gravity Distortion and would regularly stack two or three instances of the proc adding to my damage. 

 

You have to take Summon Swarm.  I used that after I would do my ranged attack sequence since the activation time is minimal and it built blood.   Building up Blood to gives a damage boost and an endurance benefit plus I two slotted it with Entropic Chaos with the Chance for heal proc to add a little more healing and 10% more regeneration at the cost of one slot.  It has a minus speed and damage too.  I like to use it when an enemy barely had any health left.  

 

Call Hawk is great damage especially when you have 5 blood, but even with all the recharge permadom gives you, it is still not recharging as fast as lift or propel.  Its a fun take out a minion or a lt at range with one click.

 

I have all powers in Savage except rending flurry as I found the AoE to be small and I think being in the middle of so many enemies is just a way to get into trouble when solo.   Now if I'm not using wormhole or Gravity Distortion field I'll generally do the ranged hold on the first one, lift, propel, summons swarm, Feral Charge, then rending fury, Unkindness, maiming slash and vicious to finish off.  Next group start with Call Hawk since I have full blood and do it again.  

 

In Gravity I skipped Crush, Crushing Field, and Dimension Shift.  I played around with Dimension Shift, and it can be a neat power if you get good at targeting it, but considering you have Wormhole that grabs foes without agro, I didn't see needing Dimension Shift solo and I don't see it as that useful with how teams go.

 

Get Spot Prey because blindness stinks.

 

Remember, Blood Craze is not a great healing power, but it isn't bad if you understand to use it early to take advantage of the fact that it is more of a heal over time than one big chunk.

 

Final note, Singularity is going to be your BFF.  

 

[Wreckoning]

2 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

That seems obvious to me now! Apologies.

 

No worries - I am thankful for your feedback

 

1 hour ago, laudwic said:

I have a Grav/Savage Dom that I've taken to 50 and unlocked all of his incarnates.  

 

Frankly, it depends on how you play.  I almost exclusively soloed at level until early 40s (permadom) then +1 or +2. team size one doing red side content.  That meant I was generally fighting groups of three enemies at range.  If you group a lot, you can certainly play the dominator version of a blapper.  I personally think your better off doing that as a brute.  Melee hits harder and Dominators just don't have the defense.

 

 I have a 40+ Grav/Martial Dom - took all the ranged powers.  Fun to play but I did notice that the attacks compete with the Grav attacks.  I 6 slotted both Lift and Propel and use them with the gravity distortion for that sweet buffed damage.  I am looking at both solo and group play (I like the mob manipulation you get with Wormhole and think Fold Space would go well with it).  I mostly group but I like to be able to competently farm high levels if possible.

 

Thing is, they give every Dom secondary several melee powers, Savage especially seems to be geared towards melee.   When you say 'blapper' it makes me think of someone working real hard to not be gimp.  I don't want that with my Dom.

 

So, as far as damage output only , are we saying Lift+Propel is a must?

[Onlyasandwich]

The melee powers in savage are very good, and you should be able to survive melee just fine between your controls, defenses, and the power of singularity.

 

If you are going ranged focus, I think /savage is basically wasted. One of the most compelling reasons to choose it is savage leap, which brings you leaping right into melee.

[oedipus_tex]

I find Gravity Doms sort of overwhelming. Gravity has the Impact mechanic, which deals extra damage when you hit an enemy you recently hit with Grav Distortion, but that extra damage only applies to Grav Control powers. I wish it was a proc that applied to any attack, because that would make it more approachable and suitable for a class that has a secondary devoted to attack powers.

 

On Controllers this is straightforward. Grav Distortion isn't a very damaging attack, but it's still probably one of the better attacks available to you, so it's natural to hit Grav Distortion > Lift. Lift animates in about 1 second and, with Containment, hits like a train. Propel isn't a terrible way to follow that up, although it does have lower DPA than Lift. Optionally a Controller could skip Propel and go with Arcane Bolt. I haven't mathed that out but I feel like with some secondaries you'd do well with that trade, considering how attractive unlocking Sorcery can be.

 

On Dominators things are awkward because Grav Distortion is not a great attack option. You can proc out Grav Distortion to make it okay (again I haven't done exact math here) but procs do identical damage on Controller or Dominator. and a Dominator really doesn't have a lot of latitude for procs due to being so reliant on chasing +Recharge. 

 

What I'm getting to is that on Dominators generally I would take Lift, skip Propel, and only half count on bothering with Impact. Your pet does set it up for you so it will happen occasionally. Still I've got an uneasy eye on that Controller. I just can't help but notice that a Controller with Lift and Propel who wanders into the Earth APP comes extremely close to Dominator damage while retaining the huge advantages of a Buff secondary, really on trading away mezz protection and (maybe) the ability to control bosses. You can't even really say the Earth APP requiring close range is a negative, because that's generally true of the entire Dominator archetype.

 

TLDR for Grav/Savage specifically, for single target attacks I'd probably take:

• Lift
• Vicious Slash
• Call Hawk
• Feral Leap (not really single target but I tend to think of it like one)

 

Without Impact Propel has a DPA almost identical to Call Swarm, your T1 attack so I'd be skipping that.

Edited July 2, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[Wreckoning]

I am a  big fan of single target holds.  I like six-slotting them and use them often when solo to lock down Bosses (on the second application).  So I will be taking Gravity Distortion.  But I would prefer a series of fast attacks and think melee would be the thing to do with this character.  Thank you all for the information you have supplied.  I think I am going to be ok with the build as I have it planned (well I just planned out power choices to 50, still have to slot it all up and I generally respec to reslot since when I am feeling out the character I stick to IO's until I think it worth getting the set enhancements).

[oedipus_tex]

What you'll want to do is consult DPA calcs for this pairing to see which powers are worth investment in animation time. In the case of Grav/Savage we have this:

 

 

 

I believe Lift and Propel are including extra damage from Impact in there. I don't know if Call Hawk is including its extra damage.

 

Anyway you can see that Lift does insane DPA, as much as some melee attacks. It's also got 100% chance to knockup. So I would just cast it point blank. You might even find you don't need Call Hawk at all, kind of depends on your comfort.

 

 

[Wreckoning]

This is what I came up with as far as power choices. 

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Level 49 Natural Dominator
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Savage Assault
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Lift
Level 1:    Call Swarm
Level 2:    Maiming Slash
Level 4:    Vicious Slash
Level 6:    Gravity Distortion
Level 8:    Teleport
Level 10:    Unkindness
Level 12:    Teleport Target
Level 14:    Fold Space
Level 16:    Spot Prey
Level 18:    Gravity Distortion Field
Level 20:    Infiltration
Level 22:    Hasten
Level 24:    Boxing
Level 26:    Wormhole
Level 28:    Blood Craze
Level 30:    Tough
Level 32:    Singularity
Level 35:    Call Hawk
Level 38:    Feral Charge
Level 41:    Scorpion Shield
Level 44:    Weave
Level 47:    Stealth
Level 49:    Personal Force Field