Is Force Mastery considered sub-par on Blasters?

[Sou1catcher]

I keep looking at other folks builds and I have very rarely ever seen anyone using Force Mastery. Is there a particular reason for this?

 

Considering it for my Beam/Dev.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Sou1catcher

[Triumphant]

I believe the answer is yes.  I'm not sure what the particular reason for that is, though.  I'm not a very dedicated power-builder, so my knowledge in this area is sadly defincient, I'm afraid.

 

Having said that, I HAVE taken Force Master on a blaster and have enjoyed it.  If the set appeals to you, take it for a test drive.  If you don't like it you can always respec at a later date.

[Crystal87]

I took it on my br/dev blaster..I thought weaken resolve was nice, but I am not too sure about unleash potential, seems kinda crap power..I prefer rune of protection even tho it was nerfed..

[TNT]

Temp Invulnerability is your standard Ancillary pool resistance shield. It does a nice job.  A lot of blasters focus on defense, so they may look somewhere else.  I personally like to use the resistance shields on top of some defense.  I don't typically try for the defense cap.   Also you don't have to be wreathed in flame or ice, by selecting this option.

 

Personal Force Field can be a life saver, you just have to be quick.  It has a bit of an activation time and you can get killed before it is up.

 

Force of Nature is a typical god mode type of short duration buff.  Make sure you have things handled before it drops.  If you don't, you will have a hard time.  Or just run away.

 

Repulsion Field and Bomb are probably the reasons you don't see this pool used often.  They annoy teammates, have slow animations and cost a lot of endurance.

 

Take the pool and try it out, you may like it.  Variety is the spice of life, otherwise CoX would just be a cookie-cutter world

[Omega Force]

It has minimal FX, gives +21% SL resistance, and the tier 1 makes a good mule for a Luck of the Gambler. 

 

It's not used as often because you can get +19% SL and Fire or Energy with other pools.  Mu Mastery for villains gives SLE and doesn't even have a prerequisite power.  Also, many builds chase typed defenses instead of just ranged defense and solid resistance.

[Uun]

18 hours ago, Crystal87 said:

I took it on my br/dev blaster..I thought weaken resolve was nice, but I am not too sure about unleash potential, seems kinda crap power..I prefer rune of protection even tho it was nerfed..

You're  confusing the Force Mastery epic pool with the Force of Will power pool.

[skoryy]

13 hours ago, Omega Force said:

It has minimal FX, gives +21% SL resistance, and the tier 1 makes a good mule for a Luck of the Gambler. 

 

It's not used as often because you can get +19% SL and Fire or Energy with other pools.  Mu Mastery for villains gives SLE and doesn't even have a prerequisite power.  Also, many builds chase typed defenses instead of just ranged defense and solid resistance.

 

Mace Mastery, but yes.  If you want to blap, typed defense is usually the way to go.  Mace and Ice will get you to 45 easier.

Edited August 19, 2021 by skoryy

[dragonhawk777]

Force isnt bad if you are building for an all ranged or primarily ranged blaster.  I currently have Fire on my Arch/Dev blaster but have worked with Force in the past, and may go back to it.  Temp Invul is your typical resistance armor that is similar to all the other sets.  Overall I generally view any blaster armor as a spot to slot the global def buffs like Gladiators Armor and Steadfast Protection.  Unless you are really trying to build for resistance blasters dont normally get enough resistance to ever save them..  You can though build a blaster to achieve a good aount of resistance.

 

Both Repulsion Field and Repulsion Bomb have a good amount of use if you use them wisely.  Yes they can be a pain in groups, but if your groups have a habit of people going their own way it allows you to solo large groups fairly easily.  Bosses are subject to knockback at a lower intensity than things like holds so you can toss them around without having to apply multiple attacks,like having to cast two hold attacks to hold them.  In a place like ITF you can go down a side tunnel while your main goup is going down another and clean out the tunnel solo.  The constant knockback animations can keep mobs tied up and not attacking you, making you nearly invulnerable.  Both Fire and Force have powers that share this effect and I have used Bonfire with very good success in places like ITF.

 

Force has Personel Force Field and Fire has Melt Armor.  Now both can be duplicated with different Incarnate abilities but Melt Armor will stack with Interface Reactive Core which can give you -20% resistance debuff.  PFF wont stack with Barrier and PFF doesnt let you attack while its on, so overall Barrier is better.  I will say that if your a blaster that picks up the Medicine pool then PFF is a great way to insure Aid Self doesnt get interrupted, and its recharge means that unlike Barrier its available whenever you need it and has no diminishing effects.

 

Fire also has teh self rez vs Force of Natures god mode.  Generally the self rez is more useful for blasters, which is likely why you dont see to many people with Force.  From my experience you get a bit mroe utility out of Fire, though if you are soloing large groups having the constant knockback field can be very beneficial.

[DreadShinobi]

Slotted to 50.26% resistance enhancement (Glad armor unique, resistance, end/resist),

Temp Invul = 31.55% S/L resist

Charged Armor = 28.92% S/L resist, and 28.92% Energy resist.

Having that energy resist is so much more valuable for your survival, energy damage is extremely common. That energy resist is, at minimum, going to stack with another 8% from shield wall and reactive armor uniques, and can also stack with rune of protection to near cap yourself to energy damage.

Speaking of which, force of nature will never be more useful than Rune of Protection for a blaster because it doesn't provide mez protection, or psi resist, and it crashes.

 

Repulsion Bomb can actually be a decent mitigation aoe as an opener with 4 dmg procs and a forcefeedback proc. Using it as an opener can help mitigate the DPA loss in its horrible cast time. The brief knockdown can allow you to fire off a couple additional AoEs before the enemy critters stand up. The DPA even with 4 dmg procs and 90% proc chance thanks to the 45s rchg will never be anything impressive though because of that 3s+ cast time. They really need to fix this to match neutron bomb animation at 1.67s.

 

Mu mastery also provides elec fences which having an aoe immobilize is a fantastic and invaluable tool as a blaster, it actually deals great DPA. Because it has better proc chances than Fire Ball, the DPA just about matches that quintessential AoE. 5 posi blasts (without the dmg/rchg) and a bombardment fire dmg proc is my preffered slotting. You can also go for higher mitigation and slot grav anchor if you have any additional holds to stack with it from your primary or secondary sets. 

 

This brings us to fiery mastery that offers a far better mitigation tool than repulsion bomb, a resist shield that offers tertiary resists, a self rez, a potential proc bomb attack in Char, and possibly melt armor which may or may not interest your build due to the cooldown. Lots of options here though.

 

 

 

Mace and Ice Mastery are booty. Choose these if you want to get yourself one shot. A single small purple insp provides nearly as much defense as slotted Frozen A./Scorp Shield. Getting your resists up is much higher insp tax. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[Snarky]

I re-"vamped" (get it?  get it?) my elec Blaster into a Blast Tank based on watching a new player use a Blaster in a fire farm and abuse Force Mastery.  I came up with this strange beast.  It will not compete for damage with a Fire/Fire.  But it stays at Range, and has TWO insanely powerful "Oh Crap!" buttons.  Force Mastery's Personal Force Field and Concealment's Phase Shift. 

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Blanker: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Secondary Power Set: Temporal Manipulation
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Force Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lightning Bolt -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Time Wall -- TraoftheH-Acc/Rchg(A), TraoftheH-EndRdx/Immob(7), TraoftheH-Acc/EndRdx(9), TraoftheH-Acc/Immob/Rchg(9), TraoftheH-Dam%(11), TraoftheH-Immob/Acc(11)
Level 2: Ball Lightning -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(13), Artl-Dam/Rech(15), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(15), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(17), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(17)
Level 4: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(19)
Level 6: Charged Bolts -- SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(25)
Level 8: Aim -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(25), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(29), GssSynFr--Build%(29)
Level 10: Chronos -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 12: Zapp -- ExcCnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExcCnt-Dmg/EndRdx(31), ExcCnt-Dmg/ActRdx(31), ExcCnt-Dmg/Rng(33), ExcCnt-Dmg/Rchg(33), ExcCnt-Stun%(33)
Level 14: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(34)
Level 16: Grant Invisibility -- Rct-ResDam%(A)
Level 18: Phase Shift -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Temporal Healing -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(34), PrfShf-End%(34), PrfShf-EndMod(36), EndMod-I(36)
Level 22: Time Stop -- Lck-Acc/Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Rchg(36), Lck-Rchg/Hold(37), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(37), Lck-%Hold(39)
Level 24: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 26: Tough -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), RctArm-ResDam(40)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(40), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(40), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), LucoftheG-Def(42), Ksm-ToHit+(42)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 32: Thunderous Blast -- SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(43), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(45)
Level 35: Personal Force Field -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Time Lord -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 41: Repulsion Bomb -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(46), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(46), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(48), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(48), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(48)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(50), RctArm-ResDam(50)
Level 47: Time Shift -- ImpSwf-Acc/Slow(A), ImpSwf-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Force of Nature -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(39)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(46)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 14: Afterburner 
------------

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[Omega Force]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:17 AM, skoryy said:

Mace Mastery, but yes.  If you want to blap, typed defense is usually the way to go.  Mace and Ice will get you to 45 easier.

Mu has the SLE resist.  Like Dread Shinobi said, Mace only provides false hope.

[arcane]

Only to the nubs

[Uun]

22 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

This brings us to fiery mastery that offers a far better mitigation tool than repulsion bomb, a resist shield that offers tertiary resists, a self rez, a potential proc bomb attack in Char, and possibly melt armor which may or may not interest your build due to the cooldown. Lots of options here though.

Should also mention that you can get a lot of mitigation out of Bonfire (provided you slot the KB>KD IO). It also accepts quite a few procs.

 

I've also got a build with Munitions Mastery. The armor is crap (8.75% S/L resist), but it can take the two +def uniques and doesn't drop if you're mezzed since it's an auto power. It also has Surveillance, which provides 14% -res/-def on a 45 second recharge. I find it more useful than Melt Armor for hard targets since it's pretty easy to make perma.

[DreadShinobi]

34 minutes ago, Uun said:

Should also mention that you can get a lot of mitigation out of Bonfire (provided you slot the KB>KD IO). It also accepts quite a few procs.

 

I've also got a build with Munitions Mastery. The armor is crap (8.75% S/L resist), but it can take the two +def uniques and doesn't drop if you're mezzed since it's an auto power. It also has Surveillance, which provides 14% -res/-def on a 45 second recharge. I find it more useful than Melt Armor for hard targets since it's pretty easy to make perma.

 

Absolutely Munitions is a good choice as well because of surveillance. As long as your primary/secondary does not have any defense debuffs, surveillance is giving your build achilles heel access, putting the single target debuff at -34%. That said making a good choice with munitions mastery depends on the type of content your blaster is likely to be running, it is great for taking down hard targets (endgame TFs with AV spam like ms lib, RSF, ITF, or Maria Jenkins are good examples), but not as good as mu for general content, because it lacks the energy damage resistance and the aoe immobilize. Fiery is the 'I expect my blaster to be dying all the time' crutch and for having a specific role I find it to be less useful than choosing Mu or Munitions, but better than the rest of the ancillary choices blasters have access to.

[Mezmera]

I don't see these epic pools for blasters as having anything eye popping great like where some other AT's get some goodies in theirs.  Blasters are already eye popping good to begin with so it's not a problem their epics are ho-hum. 

 

I typically will go with Force Mastery on some of my blasters.  A few I will go with another pool like munitions, surveillance is quite great.  For me some of the pools here on blasters it's more of a thematic reason to go with it.  I won't go Fire though seeing how Bonfire is broken abusive. 

 

Two resist shields and pff which you can slot a lotg, decent default pool I'd say.  Typically I never use the godmode though unless things are cascading out of hand which if that's the case I'd like to have a way to boost my defenses back to high levels since the reason I'd need the godmode is that my defenses got debuffed hard.  Pairing high defenses with high resists is great though.   

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

I won't go Fire though seeing how Bonfire is broken abusive. 

Getting fixed soon I think

[Omega Force]

On 8/20/2021 at 11:30 AM, Uun said:

... doesn't drop if you're mezzed since it's an auto power.

I thought only offensive toggles drop when mezzed.

[Uun]

16 hours ago, Omega Force said:

I thought only offensive toggles drop when mezzed.

You are correct. I should have said suppress.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Toggle_Suppression

[tidge]

TL;DR Force Mastery strikes me as a reasonable pool for slotting Global pieces with a relatively small investment in slots.

 

I use Force Mastery on my Dark/Temp Blaster, which I primarily play at ranged. Dark is already debuffing enemy ToHit, so MOAR Defense comes from MOAR (primary) Offense.

 

Personal Force Field is essentially a mule for a LotG and Shield Wall. I'll use it on speed TFs to dash through enemy spawns.

 

Temporary Invulnerability (my level 49 pick) is essentially another mule (Aegis Psi/Status resistance) but it essentially doubles my S/L Resistance when used.

 

I've used Repulsion Bomb, it's fine with a -Res piece, but it is never a bread-and-butter attack for me. I like the set bonus options it offers.

 

I've never used Repulsion Field; I may be biased because of trying similar powers on Live. I certainly could use it in my play style, but I don't really like set bonuses compared to what I can get from different power picks.

 

Force of Nature reminds me too much of the Tanker Invulnerability primary T9 to want to bother with.

[Seed22]

On 8/19/2021 at 12:18 PM, DreadShinobi said:

Slotted to 50.26% resistance enhancement (Glad armor unique, resistance, end/resist),

Temp Invul = 31.55% S/L resist

Charged Armor = 28.92% S/L resist, and 28.92% Energy resist.

Having that energy resist is so much more valuable for your survival, energy damage is extremely common. That energy resist is, at minimum, going to stack with another 8% from shield wall and reactive armor uniques, and can also stack with rune of protection to near cap yourself to energy damage.

Speaking of which, force of nature will never be more useful than Rune of Protection for a blaster because it doesn't provide mez protection, or psi resist, and it crashes.

 

Repulsion Bomb can actually be a decent mitigation aoe as an opener with 4 dmg procs and a forcefeedback proc. Using it as an opener can help mitigate the DPA loss in its horrible cast time. The brief knockdown can allow you to fire off a couple additional AoEs before the enemy critters stand up. The DPA even with 4 dmg procs and 90% proc chance thanks to the 45s rchg will never be anything impressive though because of that 3s+ cast time. They really need to fix this to match neutron bomb animation at 1.67s.

 

Mu mastery also provides elec fences which having an aoe immobilize is a fantastic and invaluable tool as a blaster, it actually deals great DPA. Because it has better proc chances than Fire Ball, the DPA just about matches that quintessential AoE. 5 posi blasts (without the dmg/rchg) and a bombardment fire dmg proc is my preffered slotting. You can also go for higher mitigation and slot grav anchor if you have any additional holds to stack with it from your primary or secondary sets. 

 

This brings us to fiery mastery that offers a far better mitigation tool than repulsion bomb, a resist shield that offers tertiary resists, a self rez, a potential proc bomb attack in Char, and possibly melt armor which may or may not interest your build due to the cooldown. Lots of options here though.

 

 

 

Mace and Ice Mastery are booty. Choose these if you want to get yourself one shot. A single small purple insp provides nearly as much defense as slotted Frozen A./Scorp Shield. Getting your resists up is much higher insp tax. 

Do not listen to a single word of that last paragraph. This right here will get you a subpar blaster in 5 sec flat. Mace and Ice are objectively the best, everything else except Mu, which is objectively the best res PPP, is subjective. 
 

I cannot stress this enough DO NOT go force over Mace EVER. Do. NOT.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Seed22

[arcane]

53 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Do not listen to a single word of that last paragraph. This right here will get you a subpar blaster in 5 sec flat. Mace and Ice are objectively the best, everything else except Mu, which is objectively the best res PPP, is subjective. 
 

I cannot stress this enough DO NOT go force over Mace EVER. Do. NOT.

Lol no

[Seed22]

Alright 🤷🏽‍♂️ I’ve chased res on my Fire/Atomic/Lev and while it has capped res to all damage types, it doesn’t really do what yall think it does for blasters but hey, someones gotta be vengebait so go ahead!

 

I’m no powergamer min/max, I just have seen first hand that res does NOT work great for anything but tanks/brutes, HEATS/Veats( well, chasing high res that is). 
 

Like I said, unless you’re a concept builder, Do NOT take force over Mace. You can choose to not listen but see the first paragraph in this post.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Seed22

[oedipus_tex]

Repulsion Field is actually somewhat good on Blasters because they actually have the endurance to pay for it, unlike most actual Force Field characters. 

 

Repulsion Bomb is pretty bad on any archetype though. 

[arcane]

5 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Repulsion Bomb is pretty bad on any archetype though. 

Everything but the animation is great. It has a high proc rate and can slot Force Feedback, Annihilation, and up to 4 damage procs. That doesn’t sound bad to me. I use it on blasters that need extra pure AoE’s, like my Dark blaster.

[skoryy]

17 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I’m no powergamer min/max, I just have seen first hand that res does NOT work great for anything but tanks/brutes, HEATS/Veats( well, chasing high res that is). 

 

Or anyone with power-boosted Farsight, but yeah.  I'd rather build for def and eat the occasional purple and green skittle than have to depend on a tray full of greens.