Homecoming backup plan?

[ThePhlebotomist]

Hi,

 

I played on live for many years and was heartbroken by the shutdown. I'm grateful for Homecoming, now. While I've recreated some of my original characters, it's a little hard to be as attached to them or Homecoming because of the risk that they'll go away.

 

My understanding is that Homecoming's source with all its changes is closed compared to other servers, and I'm not sure anyone has a great solution for backing up character data due to the other account information it's associated with.

 

Is there any kind of plan to release Homecoming's source?

 

What about character data backup options that could be imported by other servers?

 

Thanks!

[Greycat]

Part of the problem with character backup options for other servers is that, depending on where they branched off and what they've done, the characters could be pretty incompatible. Anything from costume options to powerset changes might make a transfer like that difficult if not impossible (what would, say, Thunderspy do with Fold Space? - assuming they haven't made the same change the same way.)  For that matter, what would it do with a Sentinel if that AT doesn't exist?

 

There's a range of what has been changed, too - to my understanding, some wanted nothing to do with the changes done by SCoRE ("issue 25") and started with where things were at shutdown. Which already would cause a vast difference in the games.

 

Not saying it's "impossible," but there are a lot of little land mines waiting to be tripped in a conversion like that.

[Techwright]

3 hours ago, ThePhlebotomist said:

 I'm not sure anyone has a great solution for backing up character data due to the other account information it's associated with.

 

What data do you seek to preserve?  Just the costume and colors, or something more?

 

If its just the costume, and I know its a bit time consuming, why not write down each setting and related colors?  Or for a faster way, take a screen shot at each setting with the colors and file all screenshots into a folder named for the character.  It's not ideal and its cumbersome, I realize, but it would preserve your costume settings, while at the same time avoiding a loss of data should another version of COH not have certain costume elements.

[ThePhlebotomist]

5 hours ago, Techwright said:

What data do you seek to preserve?  Just the costume and colors, or something more?

 

I guess I'm especially concerned with Homecoming's code being lost.

 

I can recreate costumes. I agree it'll be problematic as different servers diverge in costume pieces to do something automated. Similarly for the powers, accolades, badges, items, etc. But that's certainly all part of what I lost.

 

I'd hope that Homecoming could commit to an open code repository or some other strategy to ensure it won't just go away.

[Snarky]

These are the people who successfully kept a secret code server running for years.  There are spy organizations that cannot guard a secret that well.  I am not going to second guess their backup plans.  I am not going to try to get them to divulge more than they want to when they want to.  If the game implodes due to internet attacks or legal attacks I am sure this will all go poof.  But somewhere....

[WanderingAries]

Mind you, I only 'know' what I read about the other servers as I've never felt the need to investigate them, but from what I 'know', HC is the only group that has taken their approach to the preservation of the game and looked at if from just about every angle. While, admittedly, they likely should never legally been able to obtain 'the code', neither should the other servers for that matter. What they've done with it since I think is where they differ. More specifically, the fact that they actively sought out the parent company and said "Hey, we got this thing of yours and even though you really don't seem to want to deal with it, would you consider working with us to keep it alive and the fans happy in a way that is actually legal?". NDAs and many other cultural things are likely in place (I'm obviously not an insider), so it's frustrating when we don't hear things. BUT...what this means is that HC 'should' be in the best position to do the dance that keeps them alive where others may put themselves in a crosshair. Hence the occasional "hey, could you guys stop doing X for a while until we get the approval?" or "Ok, so you can do X, but make sure not to do F".

 

All that aside, it's true, there's Always the chance that all the servers may get taken down at some point, but I suspect that even if HC was one of them, that we'd know ahead of time and would have the chance to say our goodbyes. As for the code, beyond privacy concerns, I doubt it'll become public domain due to things like copyright.

[TerroirNoir]

Best way to keep a secret? Don't tell anyone.

[Clave Dark 5]

HC can feel impermanent for those reasons, and yet it's also been up and running since what 2019?  That's pretty long to feel like there's a sword of Damocles hanging over it, at least for me.  I kind of think if it was going to fall, it would have by now.

 

(Add in how much I've played by now and if HC disappeared tomorrow, I'd still be happy I got the time I had which I didn't have previously.  This is not to say everybody would or should react the same way)

[Vulpoid]

The game will not disappear, the issue 24 client and data files have been released into the wild. Grab them while you can.
https://wiki.ourodev.com/view/Volume_2_Server_Setup
Granted they are not Homecoming, and any characters and progress you have made on Homecoming would be lost.
But we will always have the game, somewhere...

They may take our server, but they'll never take our FREEM-dom!
 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Vulpoid

[ZemX]

Meh.  I wouldn't have wanted my Live toons back if I could have them.   I enjoy playing the game, not getting to the end of it.

 

My characters are in my head and I rather enjoy re-creating and playing them from Level 1 again.  I have their builds saved in Mid's and their costume files.  That's not absolutely necessary, but it helps.  If I ever have to start over somewhere else, I won't be too broken up at having to start over. 

 

I'll just be glad I can.

[GraspingVileTerror]

Take a look at the wider game industry, especially right now, if you want to see what a Culture of Secrets leads to.

There are three big names in the industry who are having their dirty laundry aired out, and it's about time.

And every one of them started out by saying "don't question the secrets."

 

But to the point of the original question, @ThePhlebotomist:

I believe it was either @Cipher or @Telephone who explained the basics related to their plans in case the current hosting solution were to fail (whether that be from OVH falling apart, C&Ds and/or DMCAs, or DDoS, or whatever; it wasn't explicitly detailed).  The general thrust of it, though, is that they have some redundancies in place which they feel confident would allow them to redeploy on another hosting service with minimal downtime.

 

Whether that's sufficient to answer your particular question, Phleboto, I can't say.  I know I wouldn't mind more details in that regard either, but I also personally think there are other divisions within Homecoming that more pressingly need further encouragement to stop keeping secrets.  The physical server operations have been fairly transparent, all things considered.  A positive role model, as it were.

[misat]

On 8/21/2021 at 10:44 AM, ThePhlebotomist said:

Hi,

 

I played on live for many years and was heartbroken by the shutdown. I'm grateful for Homecoming, now. While I've recreated some of my original characters, it's a little hard to be as attached to them or Homecoming because of the risk that they'll go away.

 

My understanding is that Homecoming's source with all its changes is closed compared to other servers, and I'm not sure anyone has a great solution for backing up character data due to the other account information it's associated with.

 

Is there any kind of plan to release Homecoming's source?

 

What about character data backup options that could be imported by other servers?

 

Thanks!

Not sure if this will make you feel better or Not, COH isn't the first MMO that came back by an illegal release of server code. Just to name a few Earth and beyond, Star wars galaxies and a very old Sega MMO called 10six. All these games are older than COH and had their stolen code released by a dev after their shut down and all of them still have servers running. There are plenty of closed down MMO games that got new life after their game company closed them down

[kiramon]

On 8/22/2021 at 3:26 PM, misat said:

Not sure if this will make you feel better or Not, COH isn't the first MMO that came back by an illegal release of server code. Just to name a few Earth and beyond, Star wars galaxies and a very old Sega MMO called 10six. All these games are older than COH and had their stolen code released by a dev after their shut down and all of them still have servers running. There are plenty of closed down MMO games that got new life after their game company closed them down

I went back to swg once. It was a good trip down memory lane for me, even tho it lasted 5 minutes.

 

that game had major Impacts on me. And I did nothing but hang out in the cantina

[misat]

44 minutes ago, kiramon said:

I went back to swg once. It was a good trip down memory lane for me, even tho it lasted 5 minutes.

 

that game had major Impacts on me. And I did nothing but hang out in the cantina

I know that feeling, my biggest problems playing some games are the changes they do to try and improve the game. some can be good but most aren't. it takes away that classic feeling of playing the game. I made an ENT when I came back just so I could talk with people in the Cantina. I found it more fun then going out killing stuff lol

[Shred Monkey]

I didn't come back until August of 2019 because it took me 3 months of hearing people discus it over on CO before the skeptic in me believed it was actually real and not some elaborate Rick Astley prank.  

 

I'm fairly convinced this time it's here to stay.

[Blackbird71]

On 8/22/2021 at 12:26 PM, misat said:

Not sure if this will make you feel better or Not, COH isn't the first MMO that came back by an illegal release of server code. Just to name a few Earth and beyond, Star wars galaxies and a very old Sega MMO called 10six. All these games are older than COH and had their stolen code released by a dev after their shut down and all of them still have servers running. There are plenty of closed down MMO games that got new life after their game company closed them down

 

I can't comment on the Sega MMO, but as for EnB and SWG, my understanding is that fans spent years reverse-engineering their own version of the server code, so nothing was stolen.  CoH is in a unique position among revived MMOs in that it's in the most grey legal area of all of them.

[Blackbird71]

On 8/21/2021 at 4:29 PM, Snarky said:

These are the people who successfully kept a secret code server running for years.  There are spy organizations that cannot guard a secret that well.  I am not going to second guess their backup plans.  I am not going to try to get them to divulge more than they want to when they want to.  If the game implodes due to internet attacks or legal attacks I am sure this will all go poof.  But somewhere....

 

So, when the game implodes, it goes back to running as a secret for a handful of what we have now?

 

On 8/21/2021 at 9:34 PM, TerroirNoir said:

Best way to keep a secret? Don't tell anyone.

 

"Three men can keep a secret, if two of them are dead."

[misat]

12 hours ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

I can't comment on the Sega MMO, but as for EnB and SWG, my understanding is that fans spent years reverse-engineering their own version of the server code, so nothing was stolen.  CoH is in a unique position among revived MMOs in that it's in the most grey legal area of all of them.

the SWGEMU project was at first reverse engineered but a Dev had a copy of one of the later versions of the code NGE and released it to a few people. they used it to finish somethings because the old code was still used. the server code was used to make all the NGE servers that took off. If you followed the SWGEMU you will remember a bunch of their " DEVS" was kicked off the team a lot. One reason was one of the many people that lead SWGEMU over the years found out they used the stolen code on their project, so they got kicked. when SWGEMU start I backed the project with money and got screwed when the person controling their bank/paypal account ran off with thousands of donated money 😕  EnB had help from a few devs that worked for EA and worked on coding EnB. so I'm sure they had code and that's how's they got it up and running ,so yeah that code was stolen or handed it over lol

[Blackbird71]

4 hours ago, misat said:

the SWGEMU project was at first reverse engineered but a Dev had a copy of one of the later versions of the code NGE and released it to a few people. they used it to finish somethings because the old code was still used. the server code was used to make all the NGE servers that took off. If you followed the SWGEMU you will remember a bunch of their " DEVS" was kicked off the team a lot. One reason was one of the many people that lead SWGEMU over the years found out they used the stolen code on their project, so they got kicked. when SWGEMU start I backed the project with money and got screwed when the person controling their bank/paypal account ran off with thousands of donated money 😕  EnB had help from a few devs that worked for EA and worked on coding EnB. so I'm sure they had code and that's how's they got it up and running ,so yeah that code was stolen or handed it over lol

 

I saw the early days of the SWGEMU project, then came back to it years later, so I suppose I missed the drama in those intervening years.

[ILIWAPCT]

On 8/22/2021 at 8:53 AM, Vulpoid said:

The game will not disappear, the issue 24 client and data files have been released into the wild. Grab them while you can.
https://wiki.ourodev.com/view/Volume_2_Server_Setup
Granted they are not Homecoming, and any characters and progress you have made on Homecoming would be lost.
But we will always have the game, somewhere...

They may take our server, but they'll never take our FREEM-dom!
 

Until NC removes the Sword of Damocles, everyone hosting their own private servers is the backup.  

[kiramon]

On 8/23/2021 at 9:15 PM, misat said:

I know that feeling, my biggest problems playing some games are the changes they do to try and improve the game. some can be good but most aren't. it takes away that classic feeling of playing the game. I made an ENT when I came back just so I could talk with people in the Cantina. I found it more fun then going out killing stuff lol

Yeah I was an an entertainer/dancer and an image designer.

 

I had like a true mmo experience where my “group” was actually a troupe and people paid us to do shows, weddings etc. we used to do practices/rehearsals and everything and then us image designers would do all the make up and looks for the show and the lighting was all meticulously arranged to create an experience. 
It was seriously unlike anything else I’ve ever done lol 

Edited August 26, 2021 by kiramon

[DarknessEternal]

Character data is never going to be available.  It's too large and too specific.

 

If the HC folks lose some kind of legal battle, I assume some copy of it would fall of the back of a truck somewhere.