Help a Dominator understand Ill

[ILIWAPCT]

Ill isn't a Dominator option so 6 months ago I rolled one and deleted it.

The low damage reset my damage expectation and enabled me to roll and have fun with some Corruptors.

Last week I rolled a Ill/Time he's decent, level 8  but I'm not sure he's worth to effort to PA/18 .

 

I don't Power Level, since we have plenty of time on Homecoming, I've made it a goal to master each archetype.

 I've browsed the forums and had my hunch confirmed that the level 32 pet is strong and probably the reason why Ill isn't a Dominator option. To augment damage I'm looking to add the Power Pool  Wall of Force. Also from the forums I've picked up that maybe debuff sets (Poison,Storm,Trick) would be a better choice. Probably not going to go Permanent PA since that's where my Doms shine.

 

Just looking for suggestions on how to get into the Ill mindset, not focused on damage per-say, just that Ill doesn't really have many control options compare to the other sets such as Plant,Electric etc. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by ILIWAPCT
level 8

[DreadShinobi]

Radiation Emission isn't a set that I give very much credit to in terms of general value, because shifts in the metagame on homecoming compared to live puts greater favor on other sets that function better in the faster paced environment. However I would still say that Rad Emission is one of the best sets for Illusion control because it has a unique combination of strong -regen and +rchg. The -res is below average and toggle debuffs aren't what they used to be when combat was a bit slower paced. The aura heal is nice to have, but other sets like Poison and Cold can obviously function just fine without it. Pick Radiation for the -regen and +rchg to maximize your PA effectiveness and AV/GM killing prowess. The AoE aspect Lingering Radiation's -regen effect is also really nice for multiple AV fights like in LRSF and Ms. Lib TF where you can hit multiple AVs with -regen and it makes a big difference in taking down AVs simultaneously with the AoEs from team members.

 

Compared to radiation,

Cold Domination offers significantly stronger -res potential, and even better -res for AoE functions. The -regen on single targets is equal with enough recharge. Cold Domination offers a +def/+res aura that rad emission does not have and +def shields for allies, these tend to be much more helpful than an aura heal. Infrigidate is also a decent proc loaded attack. Cold Domination does not offer +rchg to help increase your PA uptime.

 

Time Manipulation offers great +rchg and great self protection but has lower -regen value and unfortunate -res potential. The extreme tankiness of Time Manip somewhat goes to waste when you have a phantom army that will tank for you. Distortion Field and Time's juncture give you a bit more soft control support to Illusion control, but defenders (or corrs) honestly do this better.

 

Storm has no +rchg, no +recov, no -regen, but the -res will be higher than rad emission, and your personal damage is great with tornado and lightning storm. Beware that the lack of an aoe immobilize really shows in this combination, this is a 'chaos controller'

 

Keep in mind phantom army does not benefit from +dmg buffs, so even though kinetics has great +rchg, a lot of value is lost here. Phantom army wants -regen and -res effects.

 

Traps and Trick Arrow both provide Illusion control with single target immobilizes but I don't play these sets so I can't give you much advice there.

 

 

 

TL;DR, Ill/Rad is a great solo AV/GM killer and great for killing multiple AVs at once. Ill/Cold has a higher performance ceiling if you can build your recharge high enough and play without a self heal. Time, Storm, Traps, and Trick Arrow are fine choices as well.

Edited August 24, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[Omega Force]

The 32 pet is just okay.  Phantom Army is the real cornerstone of Illusion, which is very different than other control sets.  Consider yourself... a prototype mastermind with invincible yet unbuffable pets.  You wander through the chaos of battle tossing controls and debuffs to support your minions while they do their thing.  Until they vanish and everyone they aggroed notice squishy little YOU.

[DreadShinobi]

50 minutes ago, Omega Force said:

 Phantom Army is the real cornerstone of Illusion, which is very different than other control sets.  Consider yourself... a prototype mastermind with invincible yet unbuffable pets. Until they vanish and everyone they aggroed notice squishy little YOU.

 

4 hours ago, ILIWAPCT said:

Probably not going to go Permanent PA since that's where my Doms shine.

Just going to highlight these two snips. OP said they want to play illusion without the intention of perma PA. I will say very bluntly that you are very much better off playing any other control set if that is the case. 

 

Illusion control is a unique unicorn as @Omega Force notes. Everything that makes illusion control good revolves around the uptime and usage of your phantom army. With zero +rchg I guarantee you are going to feel a significant lacking in how the character feels to play.

 

Perma PA build goal is very similar to the standard of reaching perma hasten on everything else. If your hasten is 10 seconds off perma it will actually be longer than that because hasten reduces its own downtime. If your phantom army sits at a 10 second downtime that is 10 seconds that everything the previous phantom army was controlling flips its aggro to you. Reducing your PA cooldown to 60 seconds is very important because it makes it that much easier for the next phantom army to reestablish the aggro transfer from the previous PA. No matter what that period of aggro transfer (perma PA or not) is the illusion controllers moment of vulnerability and potential faceplant. Especially when soloing AVs and GMs.

[DreadShinobi]

Here is an example Illusion/Cold build that reaches perma PA without the benefit of things like Accelerate Metabolism, Chrono Shift, Siphon Speed, sg base buff, Alpha slot, or Ageless.

 

Was actually very fun to build. Had an interesting moment when I realized I needed to include Flurry (!!!!! hahahaha) to get the set bonus totals that I wanted. I usually put absolute amazements in Boxing, but this character did not take the fighting pool, though you absolutely could - I just wanted to build it with Adrenal Booster. 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Experimentation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- UnbCns-Dam%(A), NrnSht-Dam%(3), GldNet-Dam%(3), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(5), GldJvl-Dam%(5), CaloftheS-Heal%(7)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), ImpSwf-Dam%(7), ShlBrk-%Dam(9)
Level 2: Ice Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 4: Deceive -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(17), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(29), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(34), CrcPrs-Conf%(34)
Level 6: Spectral Wounds -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(9), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Acc/Rchg(36)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Glacial Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Group Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(15)
Level 16: Speed of Sound -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(19), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(25), SlbAll-Build%(27), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(27)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(21), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(21), GldArm-3defTpProc(23), GldArm-End/Res(23)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), ShlWal-Def(43), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 24: Experimental Injection -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 26: Adrenal Booster -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(37), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(39), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(40), AdjTrg-Rchg(40)
Level 28: Benumb -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 30: Flurry -- AbsAmz-Stun(A), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(31), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(31), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(31), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(33)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(A), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExpStr-Dam%(36)
Level 35: Sleet -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(37), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(39), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(39)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 41: Poisonous Ray -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(42), ShlBrk-%Dam(42), GldJvl-Dam%(42), Apc-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Rct-Def/Rchg(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Rct-ResDam%(46)
Level 47: Summon Tarantula -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Flash -- BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(A), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(50), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(13), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Hct-Acc/Rchg(15), Hct-Dam%(17)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Qck-EndRdx/RunSpd(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(11), Pnc-Heal/+End(25)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon 
------------

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[ILIWAPCT]

1 hour ago, Omega Force said:

  Consider yourself... a prototype mastermind with invincible yet unbuffable pets.  

Back on live my first alt was a mastermind.

20 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

 

Just going to highlight these two snips. OP said they want to play illusion without the intention of perma PA. I will say very bluntly that you are very much better off playing any other control set if that is the case. 

 

Illusion control is a unique unicorn as @Omega Force notes. Everything that makes illusion control good revolves around the uptime and usage of your phantom army. With zero +rchg I guarantee you are going to feel a significant lacking in how the character feels to play.

So there's no alternative to permanent PA? You're right, having played the other sets as a dominator, I wouldn't find other controllers tedious. So once I find the right secondary, I'll aim for permanent PA. 

 

4 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

 

Traps and Trick Arrow both provide Illusion control with single target immobilizes but I don't play these sets so I can't give you much advice there.

 I've never played Trick Arrow before either. However my MM lacky has been exhausting the powersets and tonight's final combination was Trick Arrow with my new level 8 corrupter. Usually I have my lackeys just follow me, but for the early levels with few power choices, it really helped. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by ILIWAPCT

[Omega Force]

The alternative to perma-PA is using Blind, Deceive, and Spectral Terror to lock down spawns and burn them down one at a time until your guys get back from their smoke break.  Like a petless mastermind with less AOE, maybe?  It can be done, but you might not enjoy it.  I expect perma-PA's as important as perma-Dom, but I never really explored dominators before the end.

 

You asked about the mindset.  Approach Illusion controllers as an alpha version of the mastermind, developing while Jack was still head honcho.

[ILIWAPCT]

22 minutes ago, Omega Force said:

The alternative to perma-PA is using Blind, Deceive, and Spectral Terror to lock down spawns and burn them down one at a time until your guys get back from their smoke break.  Like a petless mastermind with less AOE, maybe?  It can be done, but you might not enjoy it.  I expect perma-PA's as important as perma-Dom, but I never really explored dominators before the end.

 

You asked about the mindset.  Approach Illusion controllers as an alpha version of the mastermind, developing while Jack was still head honcho.

Ha Ha Just say No to Petless masterminds.

Excellent suggestions, you guys got me focused in the right direction. Played around with Mids and got 3 builds that might fit my play style.

 

1. Trick 

10 Ice Arrow & 16 Poison gets me back in the control mindset prior to 18PA

 

2. Rad

Solid start but powers drop off after 20.

 

3. Cold

LOG: Arctic Fog, Ice Shield, Glacial Shield

Strong Finish: Benumb, Sleet, Heat Loss

 

 

[Carnifax]

9 hours ago, ILIWAPCT said:

9 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

 

So there's no alternative to permanent PA? You're right, having played the other sets as a dominator, I wouldn't find other controllers tedious. So once I find the right secondary, I'll aim for permanent PA. 

*Perma* PAs aren't needed. But having PAs up as much as possible is a great thing, so striving towards perma-PA is a good idea. But the fact that they aren't perma isn't as bad as just being off Perma-dom. Just means you'll need to debuff / control the enemies while it's down. Spectral Terror isn't the best control power available to controllers but it is a huge -ToHit debuff so goes a long way towards making you unhittable. 

 

One set not mentioned is Dark. Dark Affinity gives you Tar Patch nice and early for sticking -Resist on things for your pets. Controller Dark also replaces Fearsome Stare & the Hold with a team +Def power in Fade and a Regen/Recovery tool in Soul thingy. Fade's not Power Boostable like Times Farsight is but it provides the team with a huge chunk of DDR (31%). 

 

This is my current Live build. I wouldn't recommend Poison Ray / Disruptor Blast to everyone thanks to the stupid redraw issues but once you've dropped PA + Tar Patch generally you have time to use them chained. 

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.9
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Carnifax: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(3), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(5), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(7)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(9), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(9), Pnc-Heal(11), Acc-I(11)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 4: Spectral Wounds -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(15), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Apc-Acc/Rchg(17), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Darkest Night -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(19), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(19), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(21)
Level 8: Mystic Flight -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Deceive -- CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(A), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(21), CrcPrs-Conf(23), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(23), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(25), CrcPrs-Conf%(25)
Level 12: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Group Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(27)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- ResDam-I(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27), ResDam-I(29), DefBuff-I(29), Ksm-ToHit+(36)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(31), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(31), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(33), SlbAll-Build%(33)
Level 20: Fade -- Ksm-Def/Rchg(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(33), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(34), Rct-Def/Rchg(34)
Level 22: Spirit Ward -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 24: Rune of Protection -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(34)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(36), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(36), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(37)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 32: Phantasm -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(39), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(39), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(40), ExpStr-Dam%(40)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(40), DefBuff-I(42)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-%Dam(42), CldSns-ToHitDeb(42), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(43), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Poisonous Ray -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(43), TchofLadG-%Dam(45), Apc-Dam%(45), GldJvl-Dam%(45), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 44: Disruptor Blast -- Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(A), PstBls-Dam%(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(48), ExpStr-Dam%(48), HO:Nucle(48)
Level 47: Flash -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(50), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(50), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), EndMod-I(13)
------------

 

[Uun]

Recommend Stone epic for Fissure and Seismic Smash (and fugly defense armor). Gives you some added damage and control.

[Corythia]

I agree with Canifax, you don't need perma PA, but the less down time it has, the better.  With /Time you have Chronoshift that can help with recharge so getting good recharge on PA doesn't take as many hoops to jump through.  The to hit debuff aura combined with spectral terror should help you make it through the time hen PA is down.  If you expect to solo AVs, you will want to perma PA.   Honestly, I tend to use Chronoshift as an emergency heal rather than a recharge buff, so my PA on an Ill/Time controller would probably suffer from that usage.

 

Essentially with Illusion, you will be confusing useful LTs and some bosses, while holding other bosses, all while letting PA and Spectral terror deal with agro.  With time, you get a second single target hold, which will make locking down bosses a breeze.   You will want a pool attack of some sort (flurry maybe) to help with single target dps, as Illusion doesn't get a lot of options for containment making AOE damage harder to leverage.   Generally I tend to hold something and spectral wounds it, then move on, slivering mobs for PA to finish off.  While doing that you keep the bosses confused or held, then deal with them last.    That's sort of Illusion in a nutshell.