Can we convert threads into Empyrean merits? Please?

[TheLeprechaun89]

So we have way to convert Empyrean Merits into 20 threads, why not allow us to do the reverse?  It'd give a use for those 99+ vet level toons that just get Threads and have absolutely no use for them anymore besides maybe buying super insps.

Would allow you to transfer resources back and forth easier for better character building and inspire people to play their toons more even after collecting all incarnates. 

I know a lot of people who rarely finish their incarnates because it's such a slow pace crawl to get the resources for it. This could help people feel less hindered when trying to complete incarnates. 

 

[srmalloy]

Rather than be able to convert threads to Empyrean merits, which I recall was asked for back on Live as well, I would prefer to see a new aggregate item -- say, 'incarnate fabric' or 'incarnate mesh' to suggest something made up of threads -- that was a 100:1 conversion and could be mailed to your alts like emp merits.

[arcane]

No vote from me. This would make players more able to finish their characters by simply playing only their /fire brutes, potentially reducing the already tiny population one can play with. But yeah, as someone with north of 2K vet levels on /fire brutes, it’s tempting.

Edited September 2, 2021 by arcane

[Tiger Shadow]

I'd be happy if my incarnated characters could use threads for something other than inspirations, but it shouldn't be emp merits for the reason Arcane said.

[Shenanigunner]

Maybe the simpler solution is to get rid of the umpty-three different game currencies. Inf plus one (1) bitcoin should be plenty to cover all aspects.

 

But what do I know, I'm just a consumer economics guy.

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

Rather than be able to convert threads to Empyrean merits, which I recall was asked for back on Live as well, I would prefer to see a new aggregate item -- say, 'incarnate fabric' or 'incarnate mesh' to suggest something made up of threads -- that was a 100:1 conversion and could be mailed to your alts like emp merits.

I like this idea!  Before we get anything like that I'd love to see account storage put in so we don't have to rely on the stupid email system.

 

1 hour ago, arcane said:

No vote from me. This would make players more able to finish their characters by simply playing only their /fire brutes, potentially reducing the already tiny population one can play with. But yeah, as someone with north of 2K vet levels on /fire brutes, it’s tempting.

Man once I get a character fully decked out that's when the fun begins for me.  Don't know why you think that people just shelve stuff once they finish a build.

[arcane]

40 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Man once I get a character fully decked out that's when the fun begins for me.  Don't know why you think that people just shelve stuff once they finish a build.

Not shelve them, but, like, for instance,  if my fire brute can endlessly produce emp merits, it’s reasonable to assume that might lead to some players engaging in fewer itrials, no? 
 

I just don’t think there needs to be further incentive to consolidate more of the game around farming, which is by far the area that would benefit most from this.

Edited September 2, 2021 by arcane

[ZacKing]

17 minutes ago, arcane said:

Not shelve them, but, like, for instance,  if my fire brute can endlessly produce emp merits, it’s reasonable to assume that might lead to some players engaging in fewer itrials, no? 
 

I just don’t think there needs to be further incentive to consolidate more of the game around farming, which is by far the area that would benefit most from this.

That's fair.  I know I prefer to run trials over farming.  More action in them and more of a team sport.  farming gets boring after a while and I guess I don't see the reason to farm stuff if all you're ever going to do is run farm maps.  That's hella boring.

[Triumphant]

Not going to happen but, for what it's worth (nothing), I think it's a good suggestion.  👍

[TheLeprechaun89]

All good points, in a way...  The one about people doing less trial and stuff is kinda selfish.  Maybe people don't want to do them. Why should people be forced to do them more because you like doing them?  Maybe people do like farming and cranking out builds?  If the options is given and a lot of people like it then clearly majority wins yeah? 

But really if say it were 50-1 even would be better than nothing.  Or like someone else suggested more things to do with threads beyond super insp.

Any ideas of what threads could be used for beyond their current uses? 

[arcane]

2 hours ago, TheLeprechaun89 said:

All good points, in a way...  The one about people doing less trial and stuff is kinda selfish.  Maybe people don't want to do them. Why should people be forced to do them more because you like doing them?  Maybe people do like farming and cranking out builds?  If the options is given and a lot of people like it then clearly majority wins yeah? 
 

Games aren’t democracies. If, however, the devs’ design vision is:

 

- more people in AE than there are now,

- greater concentration of /fire brutes than there are now,

- less people anywhere but AE than there are now

 

then, well, they should implement your idea.

 

I’ve just never gotten the sense that that is their design vision, though. Have you?

[MsSmart]

I like the idea, simply for symmetry purposes alone.

 

If you go under empyrean conversion, you can convert 1 empyrean into 20 threads, so conversely you should be able to revert it at the same rate.

 

Truly it is only a convenience, not an exploit. 

 

Since 1 Empyrean could break down into 20 reward merits, I would like to see the same reverse such as 20 reward merits becomes 1 empyrean. That rate is also observed in Hami raids for instance you either get 80 reward merits or 4 empyreans.

 

Hugs

 

Sue 

[chi1701]

On 9/3/2021 at 7:29 PM, arcane said:

Games aren’t democracies. If, however, the devs’ design vision is:

 

- more people in AE than there are now,

- greater concentration of /fire brutes than there are now,

- less people anywhere but AE than there are now

 

then, well, they should implement your idea.

 

I’ve just never gotten the sense that that is their design vision, though. Have you?

 

simple solution be that threads cant be earned from ae missions?

 

[arcane]

2 hours ago, MsSmart said:

I like the idea, simply for symmetry purposes alone.

 

If you go under empyrean conversion, you can convert 1 empyrean into 20 threads, so conversely you should be able to revert it at the same rate.

 

Truly it is only a convenience, not an exploit. 

 

Since 1 Empyrean could break down into 20 reward merits, I would like to see the same reverse such as 20 reward merits becomes 1 empyrean. That rate is also observed in Hami raids for instance you either get 80 reward merits or 4 empyreans.

 

Hugs

 

Sue 

 

2 hours ago, MsSmart said:

I like the idea, simply for symmetry purposes alone.

 

If you go under empyrean conversion, you can convert 1 empyrean into 20 threads, so conversely you should be able to revert it at the same rate.

 

Truly it is only a convenience, not an exploit. 

 

Since 1 Empyrean could break down into 20 reward merits, I would like to see the same reverse such as 20 reward merits becomes 1 empyrean. That rate is also observed in Hami raids for instance you either get 80 reward merits or 4 empyreans.

 

Hugs

 

Sue 

The incarnate system has mostly asymmetrical conversions. Look how many threads you get for a Notice of the Well, and then look at how much you have to do to craft a Notice of the Well. Look at how much you need to craft a rare component with threads, and you’ll see more than 160 threads of investment (using 160 because that would create 8 emp merits under the proposal). So it is clearly designed not to be symmetrical. 

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, MsSmart said:

Truly it is only a convenience, not an exploit. 

 

"Exploit" isn't the right term: if implemented, or wouldn't be an exploit.  But @arcane is right that it's not simply a convenience.  Right now you can get 20 threads much now easily than 1 emp, and changing things to allow 20 threads to become 1 empyrean would make high level incarnate powers much more available through doing much easier content.

 

The 20:1 ratio is not the only implicit conversion ratio, either.  Making a rare incarnate component costs 8 emps or else 100 threads, 1 of each uncommon component (60 threads each, 240 threads altogether), and 25 million inf.  That suggests that an emp is "worth" 42 threads and 3 million inf, not 20 threads.

[Triumphant]

It doesn't matter.  90% of the player base is lvl 50.  90% of the players wants to be lvl 50.  At this point, it's academic.  So, what possible negative impact could this change have?

 

Answer:  None.

[arcane]

16 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

So, what possible negative impact could this change have?

 

Answer:  None.

Thank god our devs do critical thinking better than this tho ❤️

[Triumphant]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Thank god our devs do critical thinking better than this tho ❤️

 

They do.  But, then again, an orangutan does critical thinking better than I do.

 

None-the-less, I am correct in my assessment.

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, Triumphant said:

It doesn't matter.  90% of the player base is lvl 50.  90% of the players wants to be lvl 50.  At this point, it's academic.  So, what possible negative impact could this change have?

 

Answer:  None.

 

...this is all about level 50 stuff, we're talking about incarnate components.  The proposed change would have nearly no effect below level 50.

 

What it would do, given that everyone is already level 50, is discourage more complicated and challenging content such as iTrials and the Dark Astoria arcs, and encourage farming and PI Radios and such that do not currently grant emp merits, but can grant threads.

Edited September 6, 2021 by aethereal

[Triumphant]

So?

[jkwak]

i like to turn them in to inf or reward merits

 

just saying

[MsSmart]

On 9/6/2021 at 2:07 PM, Triumphant said:

It doesn't matter.  90% of the player base is lvl 50.  90% of the players wants to be lvl 50.  At this point, it's academic.  So, what possible negative impact could this change have?

 

Answer:  None.

Agreed, it is mostly academic. I just like symmetry (personality disorder), but in Everlasting we do Hami 3 times a day and kill hami twice in each, accumulating emps is easy.

 

Sue

[TheLeprechaun89]

On 9/3/2021 at 2:29 PM, arcane said:

Games aren’t democracies. If, however, the devs’ design vision is:

 

- more people in AE than there are now,

- greater concentration of /fire brutes than there are now,

- less people anywhere but AE than there are now

 

then, well, they should implement your idea.

 

I’ve just never gotten the sense that that is their design vision, though. Have you?

Ok and what if (like someone else suggested) they don't allow people to gain threads from AE, then what do you have to complain about?  (Not that I agree they should remove thread drops from AE)

If people want to convert it, they will.  If they want to go the other route, they will.  IF people want to convert to unlock their incarnates AND do the other stuff then they can too (which a lot do)  Also the rate in which people can farm this is purely dependent on how much they farm and their chances of getting thread drops as post vet 99 you only get threads from drops. Eventually their reserves would run dry and they'd have to slowly rebuild them which would be more easily done through iTrials.

If anything it'd make people more inclined to do iTrials post incarnate completion as they can break stuff down and send them to their alts.

But yeah you're right they clearly want less people farming.  They only allow you to multibox (and make it super easy to do so built into the launcher a an option) which is ONLY ever used to PL alts while farming and just released new maps for AE, as well as promoted AE maps.  But CLEARLY they don't support people farming a lot right?   What were you saying about critical thinking???

The game is already geared differently from Live, allowing people to level up MUCH faster and generally PL everything (If they so choose). 

If you want the game to be more like live, I hear ThunderSpy is more similar to live but might be less population. People don't gain XP from AE "farm" maps on ThunderSpy too so less farmers.

[golstat2003]

Things are fine as is.

On 9/11/2021 at 9:50 AM, TheLeprechaun89 said:

Ok and what if (like someone else suggested) they don't allow people to gain threads from AE, then what do you have to complain about?  (Not that I agree they should remove thread drops from AE)

If people want to convert it, they will.  If they want to go the other route, they will.  IF people want to convert to unlock their incarnates AND do the other stuff then they can too (which a lot do)  Also the rate in which people can farm this is purely dependent on how much they farm and their chances of getting thread drops as post vet 99 you only get threads from drops. Eventually their reserves would run dry and they'd have to slowly rebuild them which would be more easily done through iTrials.

If anything it'd make people more inclined to do iTrials post incarnate completion as they can break stuff down and send them to their alts.

But yeah you're right they clearly want less people farming.  They only allow you to multibox (and make it super easy to do so built into the launcher a an option) which is ONLY ever used to PL alts while farming and just released new maps for AE, as well as promoted AE maps.  But CLEARLY they don't support people farming a lot right?   What were you saying about critical thinking???

The game is already geared differently from Live, allowing people to level up MUCH faster and generally PL everything (If they so choose). 

If you want the game to be more like live, I hear ThunderSpy is more similar to live but might be less population. People don't gain XP from AE "farm" maps on ThunderSpy too so less farmers.

 

It would make me LESS likely to do incarnate trials. Simply because I could just load up a non-AE farm map (you do realize that there are plenty of NON-AE farms right? RIGHT?) and go to town. If this were implemented there would literally be no reason for me to ever run an trial ever again. And I think the farmers would very quickly figure this out as well.

 

If you're now going to say "well lets not have threads drop from regular content either" I'll say you're nuts. lol

Edited September 14, 2021 by golstat2003

[TheLeprechaun89]

3 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

Things are fine as is.

 

It would make me LESS likely to do incarnate trials. Simply because I could just load up a non-AE farm map (you do realize that there are plenty of NON-AE farms right? RIGHT?) and go to town. If this were implemented there would literally be no reason for me to ever run an trial ever again. And I think the farmers would very quickly figure this out as well.

 

If you're now going to say "well lets not have threads drop from regular content either" I'll say you're nuts. lol

You know people already get very little in the way of threads even when farming right? It's a slow grind and usually you only get threads from the vet level rewards. I think you're over exaggerating how much this would produce.  Farm a whole map solo and you'd get enough for maybe one or even 2 emp merits if you're lucky? 

Also removing something from AE and removing something from regular content is VERY different (AND I had stated that I don't believe they should even turn them off for AE anyways).

If the only reason you do iTrials is for the rewards then I suppose you just don't find the game fun in general? I know MANY people who do iTrials on toons over 99 vet who have no use for the rewards but find it fun. Also if the only reason you endure doing a boring iTrial is for the rewards then why wouldn't you want this?  You get to avoid doing those pesky iTrials you apparently don't enjoy doing and can still get your incarnates.  🙂  This should be a blessing to you who doesn't enjoy doing iTrials and just endures the horrible experience to finally get your incarnate components.