Ninja - Smoke Flash - Yay or Nay ?

[plainguy]

Just wondering if people feel Smoke Flash is of value ? 

[Arcadio]

I use smoke flash. It's not just one crit like I thought it was, it's all crits for the duration. So it's a great up-time buff for one or two of your pets.

[SmalltalkJava]

I use it. But i've never done numeric analysis to see how useful it is.  I have a macro that targets my pet and casts it in one press.   Or I just rely on passthrou targeting if I don't have aggro.   

[Hedgefund]

It's a 1-slot power and though I too haven't reviewed the results, damage from crits > damage without crits.  I too have a macro to target and cast it.  For me I target a named T2.

 

It recharges very quickly (20 second base) which is good news/bad news.  The bad news being that it costs 30 end to use.  My only Ninja MM has a FF secondary so I've got time to use this as it recharges.  I could see it being yet another thing to do for a busier secondary like TA.

 

Anyway, bottom line, I took and would always take Smoke Flash for any Ninja MM.

[StrikerFox]

Yay, unless running one of your infamous, petless Masterminds. I used it frequently when pylon testing 1.5 years ago. It seemed to help. It's endurance cost will be its biggest drawback. If you can manage that, there's little reason not to take it. 

 

 

 

[kelika2]

Nay, too much end.  Long animation, and not long enough to be really meaningful.  and just for a single minion.

Hurts a bit more when you take pet attack powers are random and not a 100% crit chance for aoes

 

if it ever becomes a power that effects all minions with minicrits, sign me up.  but id rather have say boxing and kick

[Crysis]

I’ll never understand a MM player who skips attacks and/or buffs to the henchmen that improves their damage output.  The whole point of this game is taking out your enemy as quickly as possible.  Smoke Flash is what Ninja MM’s get instead of gang war (moar damage), hellfire (moar damage) etc.  If you ignore it I really have to ask why you are playing a MM.

 

 

[StrikerFox]

Ugh. Found the old log from one of those pylon runs. The 70s pylon time, there were 18 crits. About 1 crit every 3.9s, for a total of 1982.85 crit damage. It equals out to about 28.33 dps. For some reason I was expecting double that especially with perma Tar Patch active and Achilles' triggering frequently. Secondaries without a -res debuff can probably expect less dps. 

[kelika2]

4 hours ago, Crysis said:

I’ll never understand a MM player who skips attacks and/or buffs to the henchmen that improves their damage output.  The whole point of this game is taking out your enemy as quickly as possible.  Smoke Flash is what Ninja MM’s get instead of gang war (moar damage), hellfire (moar damage) etc.  If you ignore it I really have to ask why you are playing a MM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

But I skipped it because its too situational.  Speaking from a point of view where I play on 8man teams on task forces for the most part

Trash clearing there is just no time for it, and as fast as Ninjas are, players are generally quicker and beat MMs to the punch many times

and for AVs and such everyone blows their incarnates/temp pets, and sub 50 AVs just arnt as tough/lasting enough for it.

 

I cant justify it on my ninja/dark and ninja/ff mms

[DreadShinobi]

4 hours ago, Crysis said:

  The whole point of this game is taking out your enemy as quickly as possible. 

 

All the threads over in the defender section requesting advice on a 100% passive or zero dps defender shows that in 2021 this is still not understood.

[Crysis]

15 hours ago, kelika2 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

But I skipped it because its too situational.  Speaking from a point of view where I play on 8man teams on task forces for the most part

Trash clearing there is just no time for it, and as fast as Ninjas are, players are generally quicker and beat MMs to the punch many times

and for AVs and such everyone blows their incarnates/temp pets, and sub 50 AVs just arnt as tough/lasting enough for it.

 

I cant justify it on my ninja/dark and ninja/ff mms

 

While I can understand your POV when high-level teaming on a MM, that's more an issue with the OP nature of T4'd incarnate-fueled top end teams playing against normal PVE content.  DA, etc. generally can provide more challenge even for top tier teams, although granted the game gets pretty easy at that level anyways.

 

Even still, I stand by my comment when playing on teams -and- solo both.  At 50++ levels and prior as well.  It's a buff you can drop on any henchman at pretty much any time and it's fire-and-forget, requiring no maintenance other than re-application as desired. 

 

And honestly, I'm usually the one doing the steamrolling at that level anyways, usually the first to next spawn.

[DreadShinobi]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:38 PM, kelika2 said:

Nay, too much end.  Long animation, and not long enough to be really meaningful.  and just for a single minion.

Hurts a bit more when you take pet attack powers are random and not a 100% crit chance for aoes

 

if it ever becomes a power that effects all minions with minicrits, sign me up.  but id rather have say boxing and kick

Smoke Flash is a 1.17 sec cast time, (1.32 arcanatime) I am not sure how you get long animation time from that. It has a base 20 second recharge and can be nearly perma on both your jounin with enough recharge.

 

Your Jounin make far better usage of smoke flash than your other minions. Ninja dps is heavily weighted inside the activity of your jounin. It would probably be an unfortunate change to see smoke flash affect all minions with a reduced effect on the individual buff to the jounin and likely a much higher base recharge.

 

Snap Shot, Aimed Shot, and Fistful of Arrows are some of the absolute worst MM primary attacks to use (boxing has higher base damage than snap shot lmfao). Applying Smoke Flash is far better usage of your time. 

 

The heavy endurance cost of Smoke Flash weighted against the potential benefit of being able to spam it speaks highly of making an appropriate decision in your secondary choice. My first 50 was a ninja/dark MM (hence my forum name). I honestly don't really care much to play MMs anymore but if I ever played ninjas again I would likely look at playing ninja/cold. Cold Domination with perma heat loss provides infinite endurance to spam out smoke flash to your hearts content. If you have perma heat loss you have enough recharge to keep smoke flash perma on both jounin. You can make a macro/bind to make this micromanagement targeting be hassle free.

 

There are many good options to beef up the survivability of ninjas. Dark Miasma and Force Fields are often seen as popular choices in this regard. Storm is also considered a good choice as tornado gives you extra slot flexibility to get all those pet IO uniques fit into your build. None of these options provide endurance management to support smoke flash spam and I see that as severely missing out on making your choice in ninja summoning worthwhile. Cold Domination provides defensive shields for your ninjas, offensive utility to improve their damage, and the needed endurance tool to make smoke flash viable. Time Manipulation may be an alternative that can compete defensively with cold domination, but I would question whether chrono shift is enough to sustain smoke flash.

[DreadShinobi]

Here is an example theorycraft ninja/cold build. I may just have to put it into practice. Some tweaking may be necessary but it is at least a baseline build to get the brain going on what ninjas can do with double perma smokeflash on both jounin supported by perma heat loss. 

 

(note that I moved electrifying fences out of place so that I could put more slots into it because mids doesnt support how slots can be assigned during a respec for the lvl 47 and 49 powers)

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Ninjas
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Genin -- SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(5), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(7), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(7), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- ImpSwf-Dam%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(3), ShlBrk-%Dam(3), AchHee-ResDeb%(5)
Level 2: Ice Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Train Ninjas -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(39)
Level 10: Glacial Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(11)
Level 12: Call Jounin -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(13), AchHee-ResDeb%(13), TchofLadG-%Dam(15), ShlBrk-%Dam(15), SlbAll-Build%(17)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(17)
Level 16: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(19)
Level 18: Smoke Flash -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), EndRdx-I(39)
Level 20: Arctic Fog -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), ShlWal-Def(21), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(21), GldArm-ResDam(31), GldArm-End/Res(33), GldArm-3defTpProc(33)
Level 22: Boxing -- AbsAmz-Stun(A), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(23), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(23), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(25), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(25)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Oni -- SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SvrRgh-PetResDam(27), EdcoftheM-PetDef(29), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(29), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(31)
Level 28: Benumb -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31)
Level 32: Electrifying Fences -- GrvAnc-Immob(A), GrvAnc-Immob/EndRdx(36), GrvAnc-Hold%(36), GrvAnc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(37), Ann-ResDeb%(50)
Level 35: Sleet -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(36), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- SynSck-Dam/Rech(A), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(39), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(43), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(43), SynSck-EndMod(46)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(42)
Level 44: Thunder Strike -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), Erd-%Dam(45), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45), Arm-Dam%(45), Obl-%Dam(46), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(46)
Level 47: Electric Shackles -- Apc-Dam%(A), UnbCns-Dam%(48), NrnSht-Dam%(48), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(48), GldNet-Dam%(50), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(50)
Level 49: Kuji In Zen -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Hct-Dam%(34), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Supremacy 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(40), Pnc-Heal/+End(40), Prv-Absorb%(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(40)
Level 1: Genin 
Level 12: Jounin 
Level 26: Oni 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon 
------------

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[plainguy]

On 9/4/2021 at 1:42 PM, StrikerFox said:

Yay, unless running one of your infamous, petless Masterminds. I used it frequently when pylon testing 1.5 years ago. It seemed to help. It's endurance cost will be its biggest drawback. If you can manage that, there's little reason not to take it. 

LOL It is a Semi Petless Mastermind Build.
Ninja Poison..  I do it to break up the boredom I think