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Are you excited about the future of the MCU?


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I ready comics from the late 70's to the late 80's and have gone back and read most of the 60's comics using Marvel's online service.  I don't know or care about comics from the 90's on.  I've tried reading new comics and I cannot stand the pacing.

 

Marvel has already basically told the stories of the heroes from my era, and retired several of those characters.  They have not done the x-men but the x-men have been done.  And I love the Tobey McGuire spiderman but do not like the MCU spiderman - it doesn't feel like spiderman to me.

 

So I am looking forward to Guardians 3 and the next Thor, but that's kind of it.  It's not that I'm burned out, it's that Marvel is moving on past what I care about.

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Toby Maguire Spiderman ftw! Yeah, long running comics in general follow really stale story cycles. I think the MCU is taking the right approach to making comic book characters in to live action characters. I've been happy with the products since 2008 - they make great summer popcorn flicks and give me just the right level of humor, action, and easter eggin'.

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I'm in "wait and see" mode.    I've not seen Shang Chi yet (hopefully this weekend), but Phase 4 has a lot of things that either I don't know (Eternals, Shang Chi, Moon Knight, Iron Heart) or have no interest in (Ms. Marvel, Thor: Love and Thunder).  That said, there are several projects I'm looking forward to and a few that I'm on the fence about, liking some bits and disliking others.

 

What I'm really interested in at this point is in seeing the Fantastic Four done correctly, and a new take on the X-Men.  But these feel like years off at this point, like, "will I be retired by then" kind of stuff.  Beyond that, I'm not really sure where MCU is going, and I think that can create a waning interest.  I know their roster is very deep, and they've not even tapped creations like Submariner. 

 

What I really miss at this point is a bonifide team.  Duos (with others along for the fun) seems to be the theme at the moment, but I really liked the idea of whipping out a team movie every two years.  They've been strongly hinting at a new team through the appearance of several from the New (Young?) Avengers team in the comics, but there's been nothing beyond that to suggest that these are pulling together towards a team movie.

 

So in summary:  I'm not out, and there's enough to keep my interest for the time being, but Phase 4 feels less cohesive than phases 1-3, and that, if ongoing, has the potential to decrease my interest.

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I imagine they are trying to make the trailing edge of money off the Franchise as it is .. but a lot of the actors are done with it (Cap, the First Black Widow, Tony Stark Iron Man) and I expect a fair number will also be leaving in the next couple years.  

 

So there are probably reboots coming along after these current efforts trail off, not a real resurgence.  Iron Man after all was 13 years ago. 

 

It will be weird since superhero movies went from being basically dead to a huge thing for 20 years, to the point that there are too many of them and the luster is fading. 

 

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17 hours ago, Haijinx said:

So there are probably reboots coming along after these current efforts trail off, not a real resurgence.  Iron Man after all was 13 years ago.

 

This is where the multi-verse may become vital to the franchise.  You could have multiple Iron Men, each played by a different actor, each representing a different universe.  Rumor is that the canonical What If...? series will have an event that pulls heroes and villains from several of these variant timelines into a single universe to fight a multiversal threat.  If this proves true then it sets the precedent for other crossovers.  You could have a Tony Stark (played by a different actor) whose universe was destroyed travel to the MCU universe, and become Tony Stark II there.  Not necessarily marrying Pepper Potts and taking over the company, but bringing his battle armor, skills, and personality back into the main story line.

 

 

While thinking of the future of the MCU, there is a thought on my mind:  the next big movement from the MCU, beyond the multiverse, should be space exploration and colonization.  Move beyond a reflection of the real world.  Think about it:  Earth is already aware they are not alone in space, and now, after Endgame, the universe is aware of Earth.  Sure they might have known of it for years, did know, in fact, as Yondu and crew visited Earth in the 1980s.  Until Endgame, though, Earth is seen as a backwater world.  Now, the Ravagers, Captain Marvel, and the Guardians are all going to carry word of how the mighty armies of Thanos caused the snap/blip that devastated every sentient race in the universe, and how, 5-years later, everyone reappeared.  They'll then tell how Thanos was obliterated by this same backwater planet's champions.  If nothing else, alien tourists would show up wanting to see where this happened.  More likely, races will begin to reach out to Earth, perhaps curiously, but perhaps with intentions to help this world advance, seeing a potential for a surprising ally (or just some resource they could exploit).  This leads to a trade, possibly raw resources for technological info, and pretty soon we're in a position to colonize Mars and perform long distance trading across the galaxy, with adventuresome types signing up for deep space crews on alien ships.  Even if none of that happened, the Asgardians of New Asgard alone could aid the world in reaching to the stars.  About the only thing (besides a silly hand wave from the writers) to hold MCU Earth back at this point would be if a significant power in space declared Earth a protectorate, and gave orders to leave it alone to develop on its own.  The best candidate for that which I can think of would be the Shia'ar empire, and they're not likely to appear until well into the next X-men story line.  I suppose S.W.O.R.D. could achieve this as well, though in a much weaker stance.  The events of the upcoming Secret Wars might give us a S.W.O.R.D. capable of that.

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You would think it wouldn't be necessary to use the same actor to continue the franchise, but it is expected these days.

 

But I do not expect the MCU to go that route.  Instead I see reboots coming.  It depends on how fast the money trails off.   It wont be for any narrative reason, it will be an attempt to make the IP more profitable again.  

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3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

You would think it wouldn't be necessary to use the same actor to continue the franchise, but it is expected these days.

 

But I do not expect the MCU to go that route.  Instead I see reboots coming.  It depends on how fast the money trails off.   It wont be for any narrative reason, it will be an attempt to make the IP more profitable again.  

How do reboots fit within a massive continuity?  They really don't.  You have to wipe the whole continuity.  That's why I was suggesting the multiverse concept gets around that.   The only time I could see a reboot fitting into a massive continuity like the MCU would be if a result is so disliked that it threatens the franchise, and excising it is the salvation.  I'd have though that would be the so-called Sequel Trilogy of Star Wars, relegating it to the "Legends" pile, but it's not happening there, in fact there are signs that they're trying to use other parts of the Star Wars continuity to make the Sequel Trilogy a somewhat better fit.  Since this is ultimately coming from Disney, if something were to happen in Marvel like this, I think the outcome might be the same.

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2 minutes ago, Techwright said:

How do reboots fit within a massive continuity?  They really don't.  You have to wipe the whole continuity.  That's why I was suggesting the multiverse concept gets around that.   The only time I could see a reboot fitting into a massive continuity like the MCU would be if a result is so disliked that it threatens the franchise, and excising it is the salvation. 

 

Movie and TV Executives don't care about any of that crap.  They just care about money.   They will Force Awakens it without giving it a second thought.  And this is Disney now, they ARE the evil empire. 

 

Heck even Comic Book Executives don't care about that stuff.   Ask this guy. 

 

51aIVtWKRaL.jpg

 

Though I guess they would be following the great comic book tradition of wrecking their own continuity for no good reason.  

 

I'm not saying your ideas are bad.  They seem fine.  I just think you are being optimistic.  I highly doubt they will hold onto the current MCU continuity one day past the time they calculate they will make more money from reboots.  

 

  

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I'm looking forward from the end credits from BW of the tie in to Hawkeye. With Contessa getting ready with UaSSAgent (the guy is), BW sis, Zemo, and Taskmaster for the Thunderbolts and possibly the 2nd BW with lil sis taking the lead.

Remember it might not be the comics we know but it is in the multiverse.

Maybe Red Guardian will finally get his fight with Cap not the one he wanted but the one he's going to get.

 

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The Revenants twitch channel, come watch us face plant, talk smack, and attempt to be world class villains.

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If it's a well-told story, with interesting characters, and doesn't try to pander to or berate the audience, then I don't care if it's a story where the entire universe is at stake, or if it's about saving people from a burning building.  I want a world that makes sense and is internally consistent.  I want to see characters that think logically, (or at least reasonably within the context of the story).  I want to see flawed/human characters, who have to learn, train, and grow as the story progresses.  I am, at this point, turned off by characters that seemingly get their powers with little effort.  That being said, I am cautiously optimistic that No Way Home and the Multiverse of Madness will be good, but I also fret that they'll just return to the status quo after all is said and done...

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On 9/22/2021 at 2:21 AM, biostem said:

I am, at this point, turned off by characters that seemingly get their powers with little effort.

Character powers can be delivered in an instant (Captain Marvel, Captain America, Photon) , so I'm guessing you're referring to them being able to use said powers to the fullest without experimentation and training?

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3 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Character powers can be delivered in an instant (Captain Marvel, Captain America, Photon) , so I'm guessing you're referring to them being able to use said powers to the fullest without experimentation and training?

I suppose "effort" is the wrong word to use - I more meant development and/or build-up.  For instance, we saw the whole selection, contemplations on, and process for Captain America getting his powers, but Captain Marvel just shot an experimental engine/reactor and got caught in the explosion.

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3 hours ago, biostem said:

I suppose "effort" is the wrong word to use - I more meant development and/or build-up.  For instance, we saw the whole selection, contemplations on, and process for Captain America getting his powers, but Captain Marvel just shot an experimental engine/reactor and got caught in the explosion.

Yeah, both Steve Rogers and Tony Stark went through a development phase, with Tony having to work in primitive conditions, then with better conditions, learning how to fly, etc.

 

We actually have seen something like this recently with Sam Wilson learning how to wield the shield.  I suppose a case could be made for Wanda as well.  Admittedly, we didn't get to see her initially discover her powers, just a brief end credits scene where she was toying with some blocks she apparently made.  But in WandaVision, she was actually opening up a whole different level of her powers and coming to grips with it, and we left her studying that out.  (Meanwhile Photon walks through a magic field one too many times and instantly understands rudimentaries of her new power). 

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Perhaps there is also the case that in the original source material the origins have been worked over and over again, refined, for 50 years in the case of Captain America and Iron Man.  Where Ms Marvel (her original name) / Capt Marvel much less so.  

 

After all she spent quite a long time depowered, then with a completely different set of powers then back again, as aspect of the origin story of Rogue.  

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On 9/25/2021 at 9:43 PM, Haijinx said:

Perhaps there is also the case that in the original source material the origins have been worked over and over again, refined, for 50 years in the case of Captain America and Iron Man.  Where Ms Marvel (her original name) / Capt Marvel much less so.  

 

After all she spent quite a long time depowered, then with a completely different set of powers then back again, as aspect of the origin story of Rogue. 

They could have done more where she worked with/fought along side of Mar Vell, earning his trust and respect, and when she was critically injured, underwent the transfusion from him that gave her powers - take things a little slower, develop their camaraderie, show how, even though she was a regular human, she still managed to push herself and achieve.  Instead, we get this weird "blow up an engine to gain ultimate power" stuff, and a stupid retcon of Nick Fury losing his eye to a cat scratch, (yeah yeah I know it was actually an alien)...

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Being a child of the 80s, I actually like Captain Marvel. The arc (and hair) feels lovingly nicked from a bunch of 80s flicks and feels right at home alongside them.

(And I have a massive amount of Goose/Chewie merch. Obviously.)

 

With Marvel becoming more confident in its general revenue base and streaming platform... despite all the accusations of formulaic behaviour (or perhaps to spite it), they're not just sitting back and cranking out the machine. They're starting to use that to play with storytelling - and not cautiously either.

 

Comic books can be used to tell all different kind of genre stories with the same set of characters you're used to, throwing them into different situations. And I love that they're doing that in the MCU now. Though it's not all looking promising.

 

Herewith some opinions for you to hate me for:

  • Loved Loki. Packed in some mind-bending stuff, but also took the time to flesh out characters, do slow scenes and humour, and let Hiddlestone show off a full range. And dialled-back, serious Owen Wilson was a bit of a revelation.
  • Wandavision: kind of an odd curiosity till Ep 4: After which it absolutely kicks in. Again, giving Olsen and Bettany a lot to work with - loved the Theseus/Trigger's Broom bit, as well as Kat Dennings... and KATHRYN HAHN, who was robbed, ROBBED at the Emmys. (As soon as I say that, you're gonna start singing it, aren't you?)
  • What If: uneven, but a lot of good stuff in here. Being a Peggy/Atwell stan I *love* that she got to kick epic amounts of ass. And dropping THAT Twilight Zone-worthy ending to the Strange Supreme ep takes an awful lot of courage for a kid's platform. (Even though they have The Walking Dead in the UK. Not with Mickey ears either.)
  • Shang-Chi: haven't seen it yet as have to shield for a bit, but reviews have been stellar for script, actors and action.
  • Black Widow: waiting for D+ to drop this. It looks like a decent Bond movie rather than hugely original, but who doesn't love a decent Bond movie?
  • Eternals: ...um.
    Er.
    Well.
    Yeah.
    Looks a bit, y'know... [looks left and right and whispers] ...Inhumans. 
    But, with Chloe Zhao in charge, it's also going to look gorgeous.
  • Spidey NWH: dunno. Could be good: could be yet another bloody Sinister Six attempt, which feels lazy.
  • DocS:Multiverse Of Madness: billed as the first Marvel Horror movie, with setups from Wandavision (and possibly What If), and directed by Sam Raimi? 
    src=shutupandtakemymoney.gif

Let the flaming commence.

Edited by ThaOGDreamWeaver
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Loved most everything they've done so far, with a few exceptions.  Also, there's Star Wars.  It would take a lot for the Mouse to alienate me, at this point.  They've just done so much to win me over.

 

As will all things, time will tell.

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On 9/28/2021 at 8:58 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Herewith some opinions for you to hate me for:

  • Loved Loki. Packed in some mind-bending stuff, but also took the time to flesh out characters, do slow scenes and humour, and let Hiddlestone show off a full range. And dialled-back, serious Owen Wilson was a bit of a revelation.
  • Totally agree on Owen Wilson's performance. The few previous performances of his that I've seen were for man-child type characters, so "revelation" indeed. 
  • Wandavision: kind of an odd curiosity till Ep 4: After which it absolutely kicks in. Again, giving Olsen and Bettany a lot to work with - loved the Theseus/Trigger's Broom bit, as well as Kat Dennings... and KATHRYN HAHN, who was robbed, ROBBED at the Emmys. (As soon as I say that, you're gonna start singing it, aren't you?)
  • Dennings was hilarious.  Bettany was a delight as always.  I can't recall ever seeing a show that worked so hard to undermine expectations before.  I don't really feel WandaVision has a lot of replay value to me though.  Maybe once every 10 years.  Most of the rest of the MCU I'll rewatch more often.
  • What If: uneven, but a lot of good stuff in here. Being a Peggy/Atwell stan I *love* that she got to kick epic amounts of ass. And dropping THAT Twilight Zone-worthy ending to the Strange Supreme ep takes an awful lot of courage for a kid's platform. (Even though they have The Walking Dead in the UK. Not with Mickey ears either.)
  • I'd watch a full series of Captain Carter and the Hydra Stomper.  I'd be entertained by a few more T'challa the Star Lord episodes.  I'm not clear how they'd get much more milage out of another zombie episode.  I'd skip another party episode. 
  • Shang-Chi: haven't seen it yet as have to shield for a bit, but reviews have been stellar for script, actors and action.
  • Not seen it yet, either, but thanks for the reminder.  I'll try to see it this week.
  • Black Widow: waiting for D+ to drop this. It looks like a decent Bond movie rather than hugely original, but who doesn't love a decent Bond movie?
  • It's more like "Die Another Day" Bond.  Lots of CGI, fans disappointed in large parts of the script, but still has an interesting performance by one of the cast.  Toby Stephens in the Bond work, David Harbour in Black Widow.
  • Eternals: ...um.
    Er.
    Well.
    Yeah.
    Looks a bit, y'know... [looks left and right and whispers] ...Inhumans. 
  • Glad I'm not the only one that noticed this.  Let's hope its better than the Inhumans TV show.
  • But, with Chloe Zhao in charge, it's also going to look gorgeous.
  • Spidey NWH: dunno. Could be good: could be yet another bloody Sinister Six attempt, which feels lazy.
  • At this point, I prefer to think of it as "finally getting a Sinister Six right".  But I could be wrong.
  • DocS:Multiverse Of Madness: billed as the first Marvel Horror movie, with setups from Wandavision (and possibly What If), and directed by Sam Raimi? 
    src=shutupandtakemymoney.gif
  • I'm trying to picture how they'll do Horror without straying too far from the core MCU nature.  I know some of Sam Raimi's work, but what I know has pure comic horror, buckets of blood...and Bruce Campbell.  Two out of three of those don't seem to fit the MCU especially with the setup from the end of WandaVision.

Let the flaming commence.

 

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  • As far as I've read, DS:MoM is very Raimi - right down to ShakyCam, the Delta '88, and probably Bruce. (Who might well drop in from the SonyVerse anyway...)
  • It's also got his more collaborative directing style, which is handy when maintaining an atmosphere of "constant fear", per Olsen.
  • That sounds more psychological horror, and Raimi uses his CGI quite sparingly compared to other directors. (Mainly because it's expensive and he feels it's cheating.)
  • Scumblebonce said he was an active part of it and had to work harder this time, rather than being along for a joyride on Avengers.
  • The Scott Derrickson "Nightmare" script for DS:MoM is gone - scrubbed entirely. Would be interesting if it ever got leaked, but too much for Marvel.
  • It should follow on from NWH and WandaVision, with Doc still not having learned his lesson about messing with narrative causality, and unleashing "unspeakable evil" wossnames from the Dungeon Dimensions what man should not wot of. Or something.
  • The teaser plot listed on Wikipedia refers to a "friend turned enemy", which could be Wanda, Mordo, or even Peter or Wong. Or a complete red herring.

 

Also:

  • Atwell would love a Captain Carter movie, and there have been none-too-subtle hints dropped. Given the success of What If it might be a little too late to sneak her into NWH as a cameo. But who knows. The next Mission:Impossible movie should let audiences see her full-on action chops.
  • With WandaVision, I rewatch that song every couple of weeks. (I'd quite like Agatha to show up again in DS:MoM too - Wanda said she'd keep her around for advice...) And MOAR DENNINGS pls.
  • I believe they've retired T'Challa from the MCU. You couldn't really have anyone else play Chadwick, even in a vox box.
  • Looking forward to the back nine of What If - including the "missing" Gamora episode that got dropped because of COVID19 delays.
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11 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:
  • Atwell would love a Captain Carter movie, and there have been none-too-subtle hints dropped.
  • I believe they've retired T'Challa from the MCU. You couldn't really have anyone else play Chadwick, even in a vox box.

I'D love a Captain Carter movie!  Peggy has always been one of my favorite MCU characters, and the What If...? appearance strikes the right balance of brains, beauty, brawn, humor, and empathy.  I'm guessing the question would be if Chris Evans would want back in, especially as it would likely be a depowered Steve Rogers he'd be portraying.  I understand it was a painstaking process to bring that version of the character to the screen in "The First Avenger".

 

Regarding T'Challa, I respect their decision as creators to retire the character, but I believe this is a mistake.  While I understand the gesture is an homage to Chad, a character should transcend his/her actors.  Where would Sherlock Holmes be if the character was retired with the very popular Basil Rathbone?  We'd have lost dynamic performances and interesting interpretations by Christopher Plummer, Christopher Lee, Peter Cushing, Jeremy Brett, Ian McKellan, Johnny Lee Miller, and MCU alumni Robert Downy, Jr. and Benedict Cumberbatch.  I've not exhausted the list, either.   We've had at least two major recastings in the MCU so far (Hulk/Banner, War Machine/Rhodey), I believe the character of T'Challa could have been a third, and still have been tastefully and respectfully done.

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2 hours ago, Techwright said:

Regarding T'Challa, I respect their decision as creators to retire the character, but I believe this is a mistake.  While I understand the gesture is an homage to Chad, a character should transcend his/her actors. 

I agree wholeheartedly. Yes, by all means take some time to let memories fade but don't put the character on a shelf. What really frustrates me is that, from what's I've seen and read of his work, Chadwick Boseman was a dedicated character actor. I suspect he would be the first to say "the show must go on".

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I think he would.

2 hours ago, Ulysses Dare said:

 Chadwick Boseman was a dedicated character actor. I suspect he would be the first to say "the show must go on".

I think he would. He LOVED that character to bits.

 

He'd also make sure other people had a go, though... and I think the way they've handled it is wise, with Shuri(?) becoming the new Panther. There's a lot of story options there, it takes care of the problem in-universe better than just dropping in another actor, and respects what that performance meant to an awful lot of people - including all his colleagues, and the kids who looked up to him. A quick story...

 

Back in the day, when I was working in telly, I read up on odd bits of telly history - including a book about Jim Henson and the Creature Shop. One of the earliest fixtures on Sesame Street was a lovely bloke named Will Lee, aka Mr Hooper, the kindly old bodega owner. In 1982, Will died suddenly of a heart attack. Naturally, for a kid's show, this poses a lot of questions - do you simply recast, do you have an exit scene, show him ascending to heaven or something...?

 

After having spoken to a bunch of child psychologists, they decided to tackle it head-on. It was explained to Big Bird that yes, his friend had gone, he wasn't coming back, and he would be missed. But the store lives on. And someone would still make birdseed milkshakes. (If you want to bawl your eyes out, it's Episode 1839 and those bits can be found on YouTube.)

 

What they'd talked through was that while kids do fear death a little - even if they don't fully understand it - they fear chaos and lack of continuity more. And they don't like one adult simply being swapped out for another once they've become attached. The change needs recognition.

 

So Chadwick/T'Challa is gone... for now. No-one ever really dies in Marvel, natch, and when the inevitable reboot happens, there will be another actor. In time.

But the legend of the Panther lives on and grows: and a generation of little girls get to be Panthers too.

That's a legacy. Wakanda Forever.

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I loved the Raimi Spider-Man for what it was at the time.

McGuire got the Nerdy Parker part right.  But McGuire couldn't deliver *snappy* dialog (CRITICAL FOR SPIDEY) to save his soul.  EVERYTHING for him is slow and mush-mouthed.

Garfield's Spider-Man was better for Spidey, but played Parker too "cool".

Honestly, while some people have problem with the Holland depiction of Parker/Spidey, he's actually about the best-rounded of the three.

Saw Loki.  Was interesting, but ultimately it was a masturbation fantasy.

Didn't see WandaVision.

Don't give a damn about another Captain Marvel flick.

Black Panther was kinda lightning in a bottle.  It's probably best just to move on.

Shang Chi was, at best, a mildly less than annoying mess of a film.  If you want to see what the bus fight of the film COULD have been?  Go watch "Nobody".

what If? has had some interesting premises.

Black Widow was a mess.  And it should have been released about 5 years ago by someone who actually gave a damn about the project.  The film is all flash.

The second Spider-Man film was decent.

And trying to stay fair and balanced on the third.  But damn with the cross-reality storyline, resurrecting well done villains and the Spidey crossover.  The nearly-dead comic book geek in me is squeeing harder than an MLP convention with REAL MAGICAL PONIES!

 

 

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