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1 hour ago, I-Dirty said:

SO what are these incarnate and what not abilities?

Oh! When you said you haven't played in a very long time and weren't familiar with the new mechanics, the incarnate system is part of what you haven't played? Well! 😀 It's some endgame content and progression and powers, making you eventually effectively level 51 or 53 depending on the missions, normally level 51, so when we say +4x8, it's normally actually +3x8 for a completed endgame build. Though even if you're functioning at level 53 and +4x8 is effectively +1x8, it's not necessarily a cakewalk, because incarnate enemies have about +14% to hit, so the soft cap is suddenly about 59% defense instead of 45% defense. And that's why my SD/MA is running around with over 60% defense, so he'll be soft-capped in incarnate content, but it does help on the ITF for managing the massive defense debuffs for the period where I don't have double-stacked DDR. Unslotting the incarnate powers puts you back at a real level 50, and so +4x8 is for real +4x8 again. And since some people, myself for instance, build with the incarnate system in mind, unslotting also messes up the balance of the build. My SD/MA normally has the incarnate power Ageless Core Epiphany, which significantly increases recharge and recovery rate. Using it, my Hasten is just a hair away from perma, and I don't have endurance problems. But take it away completely, and now I've got a big gap in my Hasten, messing up my attack chain, and I'll be burning blue at a clip. There are other incarnate powers I rely on as well. So the build would need some significant adjustments to be fun to play without incarnate powers, let alone what it would take to optimize for play without incarnate powers.

 

This probably isn't the best introduction, but hopefully paragonwiki's information is still mostly correct. There's probably a better introduction to the system in the guides section of the forum, but I've not looked.

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Incarnate_System

 

I also mentioned amplifiers. At the pay to win vendor in Atlas Park, you can buy up to 8 hours at a time of offense amplifiers, defense amplifiers, and survival amplifiers. Here are the stats:

 

P2W Offense Amplifier
10% to hit
15% damage
15% recharge

 

P2W Survival Amplifier
hit points. (I seem to have failed to write down how many)
.17% regen
.33% recovery

 

P2W Defense Amplifier
7.5% resist all
5% defense all
4 points hold, immobilize, stun, sleep, KB, confuse, fear protection

 

So they're pretty significant. Most people probably consider them temporary powers, and would avoid their use in situations where you would avoid using temporary powers, such as on challenges. But the game does not consider them to be temporary powers, so even if you play with temporary powers suppressed, these do not suppress. And with 8 hours at a time, you're not going to run out at an inconvenient time unless you forgot to recharge them. The "pay" part of pay to win is inf, not actual money, but they are very expensive - 2.5 million inf per hour each at level 50. Load up on 8 hours of all three and you just blew 60 million influence. I play with all three full time, so I'm basically burning inf just as fast as I make it, but I'm having fun and have plenty of inf banked, so I don't care. I don't need them for anything I'm doing, but I like them. On the other hand, I refuse to use inspirations on my endgame builds except if necessary on teams, which I think are more powerful overall. So I'm avoiding a cheap powerful boost for a super expensive less powerful boost. I'm a weirdo. Anyway, the important benefits of them for most people, I think, are for leveling and for squishies. They're super cheap when you're low level, so with just a little bit of starting capital, it's easy to start the game with 8 hours of them. And by the time the price starts getting prohibitive, your build is coming together and you don't need the boost so much. And on squishies, that little bit of mez protection can sometimes make a real difference, enough to be worth paying for it. Others may have other ideas how best to utilize them, but those would be my thoughts.

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14 minutes ago, I-Dirty said:

ok so now I need to find a SD/Rad build for incarnate..../cry

When people post endgame builds, most of them probably have the incarnate powers selected and taken into account, whether or not they've optimized around their use. Many people prefer to optimize around not having them, since they go away when you exemplar, for instance. Or they may feel that a build should stand on its own without those powers, even if they only play endgame. So it's perfectly valid to try to get the best oldschool build without incarnate powers, and then just tack them on top. Suboptimal if you never exemplar perhaps, but perfectly valid.

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@I-Dirty - Hello I-Dirty, and welcome back.

 

Rad/Shield would indeed be powerful. Shield is positional, with a fantastic teleport charge attack and the set has built in status things which is nice. The downside to shield is it has no set heal, but Rad melee has siphon in it. It may be strong enough to be your full heal, but even if it isn't, it certainly will save on green pills. Also as a bonus, Rad melee also has a damage aura, one of the best ones in fact. So there is that too. Rad melee itself is well balanced, its got aoe, single target, its energy based, its just a little slow for some.

 

I also recommend joining the discord if you haven't yet, as there are AT channels there for help as well. Also if you were unaware, I would install MIDs to plan your character. And now that you got me thinking, I might make a Rad/Shield Tanker myself.

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21 hours ago, Werner said:

Keeping with earlier suggestions, give it a try on the test server! Low investment of time if you don't like it. I love it, but @Tsuko gave my build a whirl on test and it just wasn't for him. Everyone likes different things. Attack chain is storm kick -> crippling axe kick -> storm kick -> gloom -> thunder kick. I suggest Ageless Core unless you know you're going up against serious debuffers. That's the only time I switch to Ageless Radial, assuming I even remember.

 Sorry your Highness 🙂

 

But your build was the blueprint for my SD / EM "marine canon" tanker 

 

uGQcgR.gif

Edited by Tsuko
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16 hours ago, I-Dirty said:

ok so now I need to find a SD/Rad build for incarnate....


There're plenty of others floating around, but here's an example to get the neurons firing.

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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17 minutes ago, Maelwys said:


There're plenty of others floating around, but here's an example to get the neurons firing.
 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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|68F46414D7E97EC77637693FF39BFDCDCC77E6F7DBFC9519EF7EEEDA3429DE3325A|
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

You assume I have those neuron thingies! 😄

 

ty

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OK Im wracking my brains here..

 

I modified this between a few builds I saw. I cant figure out why my s/l is 9% less than the one you listed and my HP is 500 less etc etc. head hurts

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

tank.png

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Can't check Mid's right now.  I'm (hardly) working.   But usually this sort of difference has something to do with powers being active/inactive or procs being marked on/off in Mid's. 

 

Check all the yellow and green dots on powers.  Make sure all Incarnates are selected in the Incarnate window and appropriately turned on/off as desired in the main window once they appear there.  That sort of thing.   

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12 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Can't check Mid's right now.  I'm (hardly) working.   But usually this sort of difference has something to do with powers being active/inactive or procs being marked on/off in Mid's. 

 

Check all the yellow and green dots on powers.  Make sure all Incarnates are selected in the Incarnate window and appropriately turned on/off as desired in the main window once they appear there.  That sort of thing.   

 

everything seems the same. IDK  I need aspirin lol

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2 hours ago, I-Dirty said:

 

everything seems the same. IDK  I need aspirin lol


The Datachunk you posted was identical to the one I posted earlier (did you export the one you'd been working on?) but judging by those maximum HP, Endurance and Recovery values I'd guess that you're missing your Accolades (the +20% HP and +10% Endurance) and the "Ageless" Desitiny Incarnate. Maybe they're added in but not actually toggled on?

The resistances being a bit under is probably due to the "Superior Might of the Tanker" set (which I had slotted into Proton Sweep, but it can be moved elsewhere) not being toggled on. In practice you can usually keep about 2 stacks of that up, assuming that it's in an AoE ability and you're actually using the power it's slotted into fairly regularly... so IMO it makes sense to include at least one stack in your character building.

Another thing to be careful of when build tweaking is accuracy slotting - at endgame you'll usually be fighting things that are +3 to you (technically they'll be level 54, but you'll end up with a +1 level boost as well due to your incarnate slots) so it's a good idea to build with those sort of foes in mind.
If you go into Mids and pick Options menu -> Configuration and then go to the "exemping and base values" tab you will see a number that you can edit called "Base ToHit". Change that from the default value of 75 to 48 and press OK. All your abilities will then end up listing accuracy values that will actually be useful to you (you'll want 95% accuracy to be "capped" versus regular level 54 mobs - see here for the maths)

If you've been hunting around in different Radiation Melee build threads then you'll probably notice that slotting Irradiated Ground can get a bit tricky. In theory you'll want as many -resistance debuff procs and damage procs in it as possible, since IG has double the regular chance to activate procs compared to a regular damage aura (these normally have one chance to proc every 10 seconds, but IG creates a new damaging pesudopet every 5 seconds). However in order for those procs to actually do anything IG needs to be able to reliably hit your enemies - and IG is NOT autohit so ideally you'll want to get it up to 95% accuracy against level 54 mobs, the same as all your other powers. The build I posted is able to do that via one level 50 +5 Accuracy IO.

 

Edited by Maelwys
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45 minutes ago, I-Dirty said:

 

everything seems the same. IDK  I need aspirin lol

 

You need to click the lil buttons so that they are green.

 

image.png.aa54a18cd6cf2593cb2fdb5c15fb589a.png

 

All da little buttons, unless you don't want them, for example Build-up so it does not skew your accuracy maths. I'd still suggest just copying a build instead of making one. If you're super new it's best to use a build. For example, if you take Weave you don't need to do that particular slotting for Contaminated Strike and Radiation Siphon.

 

I did some tweaking. Doesn't mean it's better, it's just different. Resistances don't need to be at 90% because the Tanker proc in Radioactive Smash will put the resistances to 89% with a second stack (and the Scaling Resists unique in Battle Agility gives +1% resistances when at 90% or lower HP).

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-Def(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5), UnbGrd-Max HP%(7)
Level 1: Contaminated Strike -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Dam%(11)
Level 2: Radioactive Smash -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), FrcFdb-Rechg%(27), TchofDth-Dam%(29)
Level 4: Proton Sweep -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), ScrDrv-Dam%(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(40)
Level 6: Battle Agility -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), Rct-ResDam%(15), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(17), ShlWal-Def(17), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(19)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Radiation Siphon -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(19), HO:Golgi(21), HO:Golgi(21), TchofDth-Dam%(23), TchofLadG-%Dam(23)
Level 18: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Fusion -- AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTrg-Rchg(31), GssSynFr--Build%(31)
Level 22: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A)
Level 24: True Grit -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(31), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), TtnCtn-ResDam(33), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(33), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(34)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 28: Irradiated Ground -- Obl-%Dam(A), Arm-Dam%(36), Erd-%Dam(37), TchofLadG-%Dam(37), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37), AchHee-ResDeb%(39)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 35: Devastating Blow -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(42), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Dam%(43), TchofDth-Dam%(43)
Level 38: Atom Smasher -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(43), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(46)
Level 41: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 44: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(46), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(46), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(47), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(47)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(47), Rct-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(49), Rct-Def/EndRdx(49)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Heal-I(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(13), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(15)
Level 14: Double Jump
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------

 

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22 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I did some tweaking. Doesn't mean it's better, it's just different. Resistances don't need to be at 90% because the Tanker proc in Radioactive Smash will put the resistances to 89% with a second stack (and the Scaling Resists unique in Battle Agility gives +1% resistances when at 90% or lower HP).


Energy Resists is certainly loads higher, at the cost of a bit of Absorb and MaxHP, global recharge (unless you count the FF proc in RS), perception and endurance recovery. DPS looks pretty similar; aside from Irradiated ground (which will only be hitting 55% of the time against +3s with that setup - so your proc rate will suffer!)
Slightly different way to build but nothing wrong with that - just goes to highlight how you can personalise a build a bit and still have a good level of performance.

I'm not sure about the HOs in RS - admittedly I'm a bit biased against HOs in favour of IOs... but if I was aiming to get a bit more healing then I might aim for something like the below.
(Basically I've swapped the sets in DS and RS around so that the only thing you lose is 10% global recharge, but RS heals for far bigger numbers. And since MaxHP can now break 3k without the Performance Shifter 3-piece set bonus in Stamina, my OCD will let me swap it for a Power Transfer Proc for even more passive healing!)

And with that I think I'll step away from Mids for a while... could easily spend half my day in there, it's like linksurfing on tvtropes!
 

Spoiler

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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		|DF565576BAD59D6972CEB65CBFA1F5A94D2A1|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|


 

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