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Is farming an imbalanced method of earning ingame rewards?


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It's hilarious to me that there are numerous people in these forums who proudly identify themselves as market manipulators, and yet folks continue to lay the blame for the high cost of everything at the feet of the farmers... whose only involvement in this scheme is the delivery of more product for the marketeers to fiddle with.  

 

"If we only cut off the supply, everything will be cheaper!"  

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Some 50ss: Burner Account (Fire/FF Ctrl) | Dr. Unconventional (Ill/Dark Ctrl) | Lawn Boy (Plant/Nat Ctrl) | Magma Lad (Fire/Kin Ctrl) | Metcalf (Grav/Kin Ctrl) | IcyBM (Ice/Trap Ctrl) | Jim With The Weather (Ice/Storm Ctrl) | Dr. Jonas (Mind/Poison Ctrl) | Coldwire (Elec/Cold Ctrl) | Pyrotoxin (Fire/Poison Ctrl) | Nature Jack (Earth/Poison Ctrl) | Voltswagen (Dark/EA Ctrl) | Time Vampire (Grav/Time Ctrl) | Tootboy (Fire/FF Ctrl) | Polarrhoid (Ice/TA Ctrl) | LoLEnEn (En/En Blast) | Draw (Rad/Rad Def) | Destroyo (Bots/Trap MM) | Con Carne (Rad/Bio Brute) | Senor Smoke (Rad/Fire Brute) | Something Else (TW/Bio Scrap) | Thermador (Rad/Fire Brute) | Electrovox (EA/Son Def) Danzigawatt (Demons/EA MM) | Costumed Adventurer (Fire/EA Ctrl) | Obscured Face Guy (Dark/Storm Ctrl) | Ohm Gott (EA/Dark Def) | Full Recharge (Fire/Storm Ctrl) Spacegrass (Fire/Nat Ctrl) Embarrassing Wetness (Water/EA Corr) Weather Permitting (Ill/Storm Ctrl) Herr Fryer (Fire/Traps Ctrl) Rainiac (Grav/Storm Ctrl) Stokes (Fire/TA Ctrl) Dismembrandt (DB/Bio Scrap) Multidudes (Ill/Traps Ctrl) Meshuggenaut (Inv/RM tank) Miss October (Fire/Dark Ctrl) Spastic Colonial (Elec/Dark Ctrl) Heroic Pyromaniac (Fire/En Blast) Gigantic Robot (TW/Fire Brute| and there's more where THAT came from

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4 minutes ago, roleki said:

It's hilarious to me that there are numerous people in these forums who proudly identify themselves as market manipulators, and yet folks continue to lay the blame for the high cost of everything at the feet of the farmers... whose only involvement in this scheme is the delivery of more product for the marketeers to fiddle with.  

 

"If we only cut off the supply, everything will be cheaper!"  

Ebil marketer or farmer?

BB19ZLNI.img?h=0&w=600&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&

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14 hours ago, Col. Kernel said:

I can make about 30 million inf/hr (give or take) just running the WST, and I'll be having a lot more fun doing it.

 

If you're running the same content like WSTs over and over, you're farming.

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48 minutes ago, roleki said:

It's hilarious to me that there are numerous people in these forums who proudly identify themselves as market manipulators, and yet folks continue to lay the blame for the high cost of everything at the feet of the farmers... whose only involvement in this scheme is the delivery of more product for the marketeers to fiddle with.  

 

"If we only cut off the supply, everything will be cheaper!"  

 

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4 minutes ago, roleki said:

the high cost of everything

 

What high cost?

Belief in oneself is contagious.  We give each other permission to be superheroes.  We will never awaken, otherwise.

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43 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Ebil marketer or farmer?

BB19ZLNI.img?h=0&w=600&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&

 

Farketeer.

Belief in oneself is contagious.  We give each other permission to be superheroes.  We will never awaken, otherwise.

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Spoiler

 

 

To be perfectly honest, I used to slavishly dump everything I farmed to the market for minimal inf, figuring I'll just come back and buy whatever I actually need when the time comes.  In late 2019, that approach ceased to be viable for reasons, so I've pretty much hoarded my drops for the last two years, with the exception of the random Call of the Sandman recipe or whatever.  

 

A funny thing happened along the way... since I stopped dumping stuff on the market, I've found I don't need the market (ergo, inf) to complete a build; I assume the vast majority of farmers still carry their full haul to the AH then just pay whatever the days crazy prices are for stuff they need, which keeps the beast chugging along fine without me.  

Some 50ss: Burner Account (Fire/FF Ctrl) | Dr. Unconventional (Ill/Dark Ctrl) | Lawn Boy (Plant/Nat Ctrl) | Magma Lad (Fire/Kin Ctrl) | Metcalf (Grav/Kin Ctrl) | IcyBM (Ice/Trap Ctrl) | Jim With The Weather (Ice/Storm Ctrl) | Dr. Jonas (Mind/Poison Ctrl) | Coldwire (Elec/Cold Ctrl) | Pyrotoxin (Fire/Poison Ctrl) | Nature Jack (Earth/Poison Ctrl) | Voltswagen (Dark/EA Ctrl) | Time Vampire (Grav/Time Ctrl) | Tootboy (Fire/FF Ctrl) | Polarrhoid (Ice/TA Ctrl) | LoLEnEn (En/En Blast) | Draw (Rad/Rad Def) | Destroyo (Bots/Trap MM) | Con Carne (Rad/Bio Brute) | Senor Smoke (Rad/Fire Brute) | Something Else (TW/Bio Scrap) | Thermador (Rad/Fire Brute) | Electrovox (EA/Son Def) Danzigawatt (Demons/EA MM) | Costumed Adventurer (Fire/EA Ctrl) | Obscured Face Guy (Dark/Storm Ctrl) | Ohm Gott (EA/Dark Def) | Full Recharge (Fire/Storm Ctrl) Spacegrass (Fire/Nat Ctrl) Embarrassing Wetness (Water/EA Corr) Weather Permitting (Ill/Storm Ctrl) Herr Fryer (Fire/Traps Ctrl) Rainiac (Grav/Storm Ctrl) Stokes (Fire/TA Ctrl) Dismembrandt (DB/Bio Scrap) Multidudes (Ill/Traps Ctrl) Meshuggenaut (Inv/RM tank) Miss October (Fire/Dark Ctrl) Spastic Colonial (Elec/Dark Ctrl) Heroic Pyromaniac (Fire/En Blast) Gigantic Robot (TW/Fire Brute| and there's more where THAT came from

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7 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

What high cost?

There's never a shortage of threads complaining about high costs,  perhaps you could read one.

Some 50ss: Burner Account (Fire/FF Ctrl) | Dr. Unconventional (Ill/Dark Ctrl) | Lawn Boy (Plant/Nat Ctrl) | Magma Lad (Fire/Kin Ctrl) | Metcalf (Grav/Kin Ctrl) | IcyBM (Ice/Trap Ctrl) | Jim With The Weather (Ice/Storm Ctrl) | Dr. Jonas (Mind/Poison Ctrl) | Coldwire (Elec/Cold Ctrl) | Pyrotoxin (Fire/Poison Ctrl) | Nature Jack (Earth/Poison Ctrl) | Voltswagen (Dark/EA Ctrl) | Time Vampire (Grav/Time Ctrl) | Tootboy (Fire/FF Ctrl) | Polarrhoid (Ice/TA Ctrl) | LoLEnEn (En/En Blast) | Draw (Rad/Rad Def) | Destroyo (Bots/Trap MM) | Con Carne (Rad/Bio Brute) | Senor Smoke (Rad/Fire Brute) | Something Else (TW/Bio Scrap) | Thermador (Rad/Fire Brute) | Electrovox (EA/Son Def) Danzigawatt (Demons/EA MM) | Costumed Adventurer (Fire/EA Ctrl) | Obscured Face Guy (Dark/Storm Ctrl) | Ohm Gott (EA/Dark Def) | Full Recharge (Fire/Storm Ctrl) Spacegrass (Fire/Nat Ctrl) Embarrassing Wetness (Water/EA Corr) Weather Permitting (Ill/Storm Ctrl) Herr Fryer (Fire/Traps Ctrl) Rainiac (Grav/Storm Ctrl) Stokes (Fire/TA Ctrl) Dismembrandt (DB/Bio Scrap) Multidudes (Ill/Traps Ctrl) Meshuggenaut (Inv/RM tank) Miss October (Fire/Dark Ctrl) Spastic Colonial (Elec/Dark Ctrl) Heroic Pyromaniac (Fire/En Blast) Gigantic Robot (TW/Fire Brute| and there's more where THAT came from

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1 minute ago, roleki said:

There's never a shortage of threads complaining about high costs,  perhaps you could read one.

 

Some people complain that bread costs too much. And?

 

What qualifies as a high price? Then what is the backing for the assertion that what people want to buy on the AH is high priced?

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55 minutes ago, roleki said:

It's hilarious to me that there are numerous people in these forums who proudly identify themselves as market manipulators, and yet folks continue to lay the blame for the high cost of everything at the feet of the farmers... whose only involvement in this scheme is the delivery of more product for the marketeers to fiddle with.  

 

If converter roulette is market manipulation, then so is a baker buying flour and yeast, turning them into bread, and selling it to customers who would rather buy bread than flour.  You can call that market manipulation if you like, but it's a somewhat idiosyncratic definition.

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11 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

If converter roulette is market manipulation, then so is a baker buying flour and yeast, turning them into bread, and selling it to customers who would rather buy bread than flour.  You can call that market manipulation if you like, but it's a somewhat idiosyncratic definition.

 

Kneading, manipulation, all the same thing.

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I don't see much of a point in accumulating in game wealth past the point of being able to afford the IOs I need.  There's no status items or anything to save up for in this game.  People who spend a significant portion of their time in game dedicated to gaining money are turning their sessions into a paperclip maximizer. 

 

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1 hour ago, roleki said:

There's never a shortage of threads complaining about high costs,  perhaps you could read one.

 

You meant "alleged high costs", then?

Belief in oneself is contagious.  We give each other permission to be superheroes.  We will never awaken, otherwise.

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1 hour ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

If converter roulette is market manipulation, then so is a baker buying flour and yeast, turning them into bread, and selling it to customers who would rather buy bread than flour.  You can call that market manipulation if you like, but it's a somewhat idiosyncratic definition.

 

Sure, there are plenty of bread makers, but I'm talking more about the people who purchase all the pre-baked marble rye and relist it for more than marble rye would have sold for had they just left their fucking hands off of it.

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Some 50ss: Burner Account (Fire/FF Ctrl) | Dr. Unconventional (Ill/Dark Ctrl) | Lawn Boy (Plant/Nat Ctrl) | Magma Lad (Fire/Kin Ctrl) | Metcalf (Grav/Kin Ctrl) | IcyBM (Ice/Trap Ctrl) | Jim With The Weather (Ice/Storm Ctrl) | Dr. Jonas (Mind/Poison Ctrl) | Coldwire (Elec/Cold Ctrl) | Pyrotoxin (Fire/Poison Ctrl) | Nature Jack (Earth/Poison Ctrl) | Voltswagen (Dark/EA Ctrl) | Time Vampire (Grav/Time Ctrl) | Tootboy (Fire/FF Ctrl) | Polarrhoid (Ice/TA Ctrl) | LoLEnEn (En/En Blast) | Draw (Rad/Rad Def) | Destroyo (Bots/Trap MM) | Con Carne (Rad/Bio Brute) | Senor Smoke (Rad/Fire Brute) | Something Else (TW/Bio Scrap) | Thermador (Rad/Fire Brute) | Electrovox (EA/Son Def) Danzigawatt (Demons/EA MM) | Costumed Adventurer (Fire/EA Ctrl) | Obscured Face Guy (Dark/Storm Ctrl) | Ohm Gott (EA/Dark Def) | Full Recharge (Fire/Storm Ctrl) Spacegrass (Fire/Nat Ctrl) Embarrassing Wetness (Water/EA Corr) Weather Permitting (Ill/Storm Ctrl) Herr Fryer (Fire/Traps Ctrl) Rainiac (Grav/Storm Ctrl) Stokes (Fire/TA Ctrl) Dismembrandt (DB/Bio Scrap) Multidudes (Ill/Traps Ctrl) Meshuggenaut (Inv/RM tank) Miss October (Fire/Dark Ctrl) Spastic Colonial (Elec/Dark Ctrl) Heroic Pyromaniac (Fire/En Blast) Gigantic Robot (TW/Fire Brute| and there's more where THAT came from

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9 minutes ago, roleki said:

Sure, there are plenty of bread makers, but I'm talking more about the people who purchase all the pre-baked marble rye and relist it for more than marble rye would have sold for had they just left their fucking hands off of it.

 

Whoever's doing that ain't makin' nearly as much of a profit as they used to do on Live, I can tell you that:

 

what.PNG

 

EDIT: Old school flipping worked because, not only did we not have converters that could raise supply, the required salvage was also in high demand.  Now with all the salvage in the same pool, that's also no longer a problem.  Thus old school flipping is deader than Elvis.

Edited by skoryy

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2 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

If converter roulette is market manipulation, then so is a baker buying flour and yeast, turning them into bread, and selling it to customers who would rather buy bread than flour.  You can call that market manipulation if you like, but it's a somewhat idiosyncratic definition.

 

It seems to me that the people who blame "market manipulation" for why they are not successful enough in Homecoming are very similar to those who used to blame witches for their crop failures.  Both were superstitious and made up scapegoats to account for their own shortcomings, and both were crappy farmers.

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Who run Bartertown?

 

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1 hour ago, roleki said:

Sure, there are plenty of bread makers, but I'm talking more about the people who purchase all the pre-baked marble rye and relist it for more than marble rye would have sold for had they just left their fucking hands off of it.

 

Sure, you can try that if you want to lose inf.  But if you want to flip, you need to bid above the existing lowest sale prices (because you want to actually buy stock) and list for below the normal highest sale price (because you want to sell stock).  All flippers really do is stabilise supply and narrow the gap between high and low prices.  Over time, the lower price creeps up, and the higher price creeps down.  Eventually, the high and low prices close to within 10%, the niche collapses, and everyone leaves.  It really doesn't have as much effect on prices as people tend to think, especially if you're willing to be even mildly patient.  Bid one inf more than the flipper, and the next sale is still yours at a low price..

 

ETA: This is reminding me of all the time I spent on live flipping yellow salvage when AE exploits were in full swing.  It was never outstandingly profitable, considering how much time it took, but it was oddly hypnotic watching the stacks of salvage simultaneously filling and emptying.

Edited by Grouchybeast
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4 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

I would agree on your general point, but I disagree that farming is the sole root cause. If they want to remove inf from the economy, simply making more money sinks would be more prudent. Upkeep on base costs/parts for an example. A change that I suspect would be unpopular, but if a stale market (more money added then removed) is the concern, then farming is also a drop in the bucket. I would argue there isn't enough uses for INF largely aside from enhancements, there is little other uses. When any character once they are fully geared up can accumulate an infinite amount of INF regardless of activity, only the speed/rate at which it does so changes.

 

If people want to change that, there has to be more INF dumps than simple enhancements, as that only goes so far. I mean there is what? 80 slots on a character? Even if EACH slot was 20 mil per that is still 1.6 billion inf to fully gear, a laughably small amount in a characters possible accumulation. 

 

More moneysinks would be more efficient at curbing inflation than removing/punishing aes/farmers.

I don't think anyone would debate your point on the game needing influence sinks. 

Candidly - I think we have a "good problem".  Too much inf? That's a pretty good problem to have. 

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Niet.  

 

As I did not answer in the specific context asked to explain my reasoning I'll just leave it at this.  There's many viable methods to earning things in this game available to all, to each their own.  

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22 hours ago, Apparition said:

Prior to the double INF while malefactored nerf?  Maybe.  Now?  No.  It's good for PLing up alts to level 50 and for passing the time, but for actual rewards, marketeering and speed running TFs/SFs are both better sources of INF in the end.  Heck, even Hamidon raids are a better source of INF now, if you're lucky and don't get a Golgi. 😛

 

++1

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The farmer I have in my employ constantly whines about crop circles. What am I do do with them? I mean, I am Not Saying Its Aliens, but.. Its Alien Marketeers, Flippers, And Gamblers. Should I direct my farmer to more reputable stories about farming from trustworthy sources such as Ancient Aliens?

 

I just need my corn damnit.

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13 hours ago, Hew said:

I edited some of the original post, because maybe the OP is not actually against farming and just trying to make a point, or maybe they are, but with the vagueness of language I did not want to cast aspersions when their 1 sentence comment does not clearly state their reason for the question and could be confused as to the intent of the question.

I should have been clearer in the OP and linked the initial thread where this discussion originated, or maybe worded my actual post better, but to sum it up my initial statement could be read as "I don't think farming is bad for the game and I'm curious as to why you don't think it is either."

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1 minute ago, macskull said:

I should have been clearer in the OP and linked the initial thread where this discussion originated, or maybe worded my actual post better, but to sum it up my initial statement could be read as "I don't think farming is bad for the game and I'm curious as to why you don't think it is either."

Good thing I edited it! 🙂

 

I read it a few times and was wondering, what exactly is he suggesting in his opening post?! So i backed down the rhetoric 😄

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2 hours ago, roleki said:

Sure, there are plenty of bread makers, but I'm talking more about the people who purchase all the pre-baked marble rye and relist it for more than marble rye would have sold for had they just left their fucking hands off of it.

The pre-baked marble rye is selling for those higher amounts because people are willing to pay those higher amounts. If no one was willing to buy the items at that price the people trying to flip things would just get stuck with a load of stock that they'd have to lose money to unload.

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