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Is farming an imbalanced method of earning ingame rewards?


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I'd sell all of you into the most debasing forms of servitude for a Rueben.

 

Stop talking about rye bread before I go looking for a buyer.

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Belief in oneself is contagious.  We give each other permission to be superheroes.  We will never awaken, otherwise.

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2 hours ago, skoryy said:

 

Whoever's doing that ain't makin' nearly as much of a profit as they used to do on Live, I can tell you that:

 

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EDIT: Old school flipping worked because, not only did we not have converters that could raise supply, the required salvage was also in high demand.  Now with all the salvage in the same pool, that's also no longer a problem.  Thus old school flipping is deader than Elvis.

 

Meh....can buy it nao for not a lot more than recipe +crafting components.  It really depends on time of day/day of week....

 

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58 minutes ago, Hew said:

The farmer I have in my employ constantly whines about crop circles. What am I do do with them? I mean, I am Not Saying Its Aliens, but.. Its Alien Marketeers, Flippers, And Gamblers. Should I direct my farmer to more reputable stories about farming from trustworthy sources such as Ancient Aliens?

 

I just need my corn damnit.

 

Now I'm not saying you should do something about the aliens, and I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But I *am* saying that there is a market for their blood...

 

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2 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

This is reminding me of all the time I spent on live flipping yellow salvage when AE exploits were in full swing.  It was never outstandingly profitable, considering how much time it took, but it was oddly hypnotic watching the stacks of salvage simultaneously filling and emptying.

 

The real money was in buying and flipping rare oranges at first, then purples once you had enough money.  I was able to outfit two of my 50s with purple IO'd builds before sunset, but boy howdy the tracking I had to do on spreadsheets...  oof.

Starwave  Wolfhound  Actionette  Nightlight

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Personally unless I am penny pintching I tend to sell en masse. Multibox farming 3 characters fills up a lot of inventory fast, even things like converters. So I usually wait for a good time to sell in bulk. The majority of my day to day inf gain is from just selling stuff like piles of white recipes to vendors, but I've put up 30+ orange salvage before, and so on. 

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8 hours ago, roleki said:

It's hilarious to me that there are numerous people in these forums who proudly identify themselves as market manipulators, and yet folks continue to lay the blame for the high cost of everything at the feet of the farmers... whose only involvement in this scheme is the delivery of more product for the marketeers to fiddle with.  

 

"If we only cut off the supply, everything will be cheaper!"  

 

I'm glad to see that some folks in this game understand basic economics.

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17 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Would you tell us the actual increase?  Because going from 1,000 inf to 3,000 inf is a 300% increase, which is negligible.  I would even consider 10x or 100x from the starting point to be negligible as well, but some may not.

 

I mentioned it in the other thread, but enhancements that I regularly sold for ~1M Inf now easily go for 2M-3M or higher.

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29 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

I mentioned it in the other thread, but enhancements that I regularly sold for ~1M Inf now easily go for 2M-3M or higher.

 

Can you be more specific? I regularly see ±1MInf variation in all sorts of random places with small sample sizes. Don't worry about revealing your secret niche, my first reaction to "ZOMG 1MInf!" was:

 

giphy.gif?cid=790b7611fb9c72d86d45ccfc59

 

EDIT: I should add this note: In a market niche where I routinely made ~6Minf for certain pieces, the market fell such that I'm lucky to make 4Minf, and routinely the pieces go for low enough prices that I make much less.

Edited by tidge
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8 minutes ago, nihilii said:

farming is anywhere from 3x to 100x more efficient than normal play

 

Provide data, please.

 

9 minutes ago, nihilii said:

The expectation is to be able to go from level 1 to 50 in 2 hours at will.

 

Farming is not power-leveling.  Power-leveling is not farming.  They are two distinct activities, neither reliant on nor requiring the other.  A player can power-level to 50 by side-kicking with teams running story arcs at level 50.  A player can farm with a level 50 character and no sub-50 characters on his/her farm.  Conflating the two is a mistake.

 

12 minutes ago, nihilii said:

- no, your farmer dumping recipes on the market does not increase supply, because your influence gain is greater than your supply generation relative to normal play. Ergo you're actually worsening inflation and contributing to price hikes.

 

Data required.

 

13 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Other arguments: "through farming I team with people" - that same pool of players would be available for normal teaming.

 

Can you provide any evidence that farmers would team with you and play through your preferred activity if you take away their preferred activity?

 

18 minutes ago, nihilii said:

you can tweak the rewards curve. You could stop abominations like the moonfarm, heck you could use the nuclear option and make AE give no xp/inf, period

 

Those restrictions didn't farming in the past.

 

24 minutes ago, nihilii said:

or you could even go with a more interesting route and make it give XP but no influence/drops at all, giving a fast leveling route but leaving the need for the game proper to get influence

 

Again, farming isn't power-leveling, power-leveling isn't farming.

 

Also, accounts are free now, and Gmail accounts are unlimited, anyone could set up ten or twenty or fifty accounts to farm and/or power-level and easily work around your restrictions.

 

31 minutes ago, nihilii said:

"If you stop farming, I will leave" - most people who loudly claim to leave never do. And most people who leave don't loudly claim to, incidentally: we'll never know how many people gave up on CoH because they weren't into farming.

 

Do you have any data to support these assertions?

 

32 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I'm actually one of the people who benefits most from farming. Likes solo play above all, likes making endgame builds against challenge stuff. I've maybe farmed 50 level 50s for every single character leveled normally.

 

Magnificent.  You're perfectly positioned to provide exactly the type of information necessary to determine the impact of farming on the game as a whole.  Everyone reading is dying to see real evidence of anyone pulling down 3,000,000,000 inf* per hour farming with a single character (one hundred times the 30,000,000 inf* someone can make playing the ITF for an hour), and you just volunteered to provide that evidence.  👍

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Belief in oneself is contagious.  We give each other permission to be superheroes.  We will never awaken, otherwise.

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At this point I think it's clear that not everyone is going to agree, as people have different objections or goals. Not everyone is going to like all playstyles either. Personally, I am at the point where I power level more than I farm, mostly to try out new ideas or builds. Inf isn't even really a concern to me anymore.

 

But what does make me perplexed is how the crux of the disagreement here, is how some people are efficient with their play, and that seems to irk other players. Honestly it's starting to feel like a home owners association, with someone measuring my front lawn and going "Hey! That's too much!" when my next door neighbor has a veritable forest, they are worried about my lawn being a quarter inch higher than theirs. When "your boi" over there is planting entire forests. 

 

And I am genuinely curious as to where people get their data from. Do people actually have proof that farming does X Y and Z, have access to player numbers? Some sort of secret inner working knowledge or access to the numbers? Or are they going off what they think, feel, or suspect? (Opinions are not facts.)

 

Personally I go off my own experience. I know what I make how fast I make it and how fast I spend. And I have noticed far less farmers now than there were a year ago. (it seems to come and go with playtimes as might be expected, but overall, it just seems lower to me.)

 

Anyway, best wishes to everyone, if you are a fellow farmer or not. Just please be kind to one another, even if you disagree. Its okay to disagree, just please be respectful about it. This community is already small enough.

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I'll just leave this here for others to discuss (emphasis added in gold)

 

On 3/31/2020 at 7:27 AM, Jimmy said:

We’ve made this change to reduce the influence income gap between players who farm and those that do not. The amount of additional influence gained by abusing level 49 missions simply wasn’t healthy for the overall economy of the game, and generally unfair towards those who play standard level 50 content instead of farming. Additionally, there were various exploits that could be abused in order to further increase influence gain through this option. Overall, we concluded it was best to remove the mechanic. Even with this change farming is still far more efficient than every other method of influence gain.

 

Edited by Glacier Peak
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I'm not sure if it was in that thread or another, but Jimmy has also stated that marketing does not create influence, it transfers it between players and has a deflationary effect of removing 10% influence per transaction.

 

So yes, farming is faster than street sweeping or running TFs and story arcs to create influence, but marketing is still a faster way for a player to accumulate (not create) influence.

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19 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'm not sure if it was in that thread or another, but Jimmy has also stated that marketing does not create influence, it transfers it between players and has a deflationary effect of removing 10% influence per transaction.

 

So yes, farming is faster than street sweeping or running TFs and story arcs to create influence, but marketing is still a faster way for a player to accumulate (not create) influence.

I know exactly what you're talking about, but I can't seem to find it either! And agree on distinguishing the semantics, creating is different than accumulating. 

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There is one thing that occurred to me this morning about a legit difference (as far as I can tell) between AE farm rewards and other content. 

Back on live, I had two farms: the famed Dreck map, through Unai Kemen, and Harvey Meylor's Demon map. And why? 
Because the freaks dropped tech salvage, and the demons dropped arcane. I would often run dreck, then run the demon map a couple of times because it was smaller, hoping to get the required salvage so I wouldn't have to travel to W...I can't believe I've been using AH so much, I've forgotten that W stands for Wentworth's! 

But, oddly, in AE maps - at least Briggs' - the mobs drop both types. I realize in game, there's some mobs that will drop both, but by and large, freaks drop tech, CoT drop arcane, etc. 

To me - that's a HUGE difference, just in the time it saves me not having to buy salvage. 

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1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'm not sure if it was in that thread or another, but Jimmy has also stated that marketing does not create influence, it transfers it between players and has a deflationary effect of removing 10% influence per transaction.

 

So yes, farming is faster than street sweeping or running TFs and story arcs to create influence, but marketing is still a faster way for a player to accumulate (not create) influence.

 

It's like hosting a poker game where anyone can gamble and quit at their leisure but the dealer takes 10% of every pot.  Nothing is being generated, values are just transferring.  Ultimately the 10% of monies is being removed from the table to not be seen again, unless you start looking around at all of Jimmy's new toys.  Jimmy is 100%.  

 

The house always wins.  Always....

Edited by Mezmera
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