The possibilty of a Mesopotamian-themed Praetorian Epic Archetype

[Zepp]

Spoiler

The underlying storyline of the First Ward/Night Ward arc is the aeons old battle between Pazuzu, son of Hanbi & Lamashtu, daughter of Anu. These are basically demons taken directly from Mesopotamian tradition and placed into the Praetorian context.

Basically, I am starting from the connections between the Talons of Vengeance and their connection to Mesopotamian mythology. The idea is that a long time ago a contingent of the progeny of Lamashtu and Pazuzu were sealed into a pocket dimension, Erṣetu. There is, however, a tear which links Erṣetu to Praetorian earth. The tear is too small for the elder, more powerful beings to emerge, however every once in a while a younger member can move into Praetoria. This has been happening for decades, and they have been behind the scenes movers and shakers behind the current conflict.
 

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Minion of Pazuzu (Loyalist)

Pazuzu is the son of Hanbi, the Lord of the Underworld. Pazuzu sought to manage the temperaments of the other Gods. As his father had brought order and purpose to the Underworld, so he sought to bring order to humanity. He used the winds and rain to bring order (although more often he brought flood and drought). He saw the actions of any other God or Goddess interfering with humanity as an assault on his order. His biggest conflict came when he fell in love with Lamashtu. He tried to change her, and when that failed he imprisoned her.

 

Slot 0 - bird form

 

Primary - Elemental Power

A mix of Electric Melee with some Storm Summoning and Water Blast thrown in.

Secondary - Elemental Might

A mix of Invulnerability and Thermal Radiation

 

lvl 24 choice (no forced respec, but granted a freespec and can choose to open one of the two paths). This choice will affect the story arc (MoP & PoL story arcs merge from this point forward).

 

Path of Enlightenment

Primary - Elemental Wisdom

A mix of Psionic Assault and Mind Control
Secondary - Elemental Knowledge
A little Nature Affinity and Foresight/Mind Link type powers.

 

Path of Madness

Primary - Elemental Rage

Based on Lamashtu's offensive power set.

Secondary - Elemental Will
A little Storm Summoning with some self-Resist powers.

 

Special inherent
Hover+Evasive Maneuvers-ish power (The equivalent of combined effects of Hover and Evasive Maneuvers)

 

Inherent Power

Obedience (each ally in range increases the global recharge rate of the character; allies within range have increased regen & recovery)

 

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Progeny of Lamashtu (Resistance)

Lamashtu is the daughter of Anu, the Sky God. Rather than follow the will of the gods, Lamashtu sought to bring free will and the light of knowledge to the so-called lesser beings. In her quest to un-tether creations from their creator she brought the ire of the Furies and was sealed within the Eternal Prison by the gods and the Furies centuries ago. She bears seven names and when called upon in incantations she manifests as seven witches. She is responsible for bringing knowledge and enlightenment in ancient times. Lamashtu has an enduring hatred for imposed servitude and hoarded knowledge. She is also the bringer of new life. These powerful beings share in their mother's thirst for knowledge and freedom. It is not surprising then that the Furies seek to force her creations into servitude. Those children who have not been enslaved by the Furies seek out the fractures of their mothers consciousness to bring her back to a state of sanity robbed from her.

 

Slot 0 - snake form

 

Primary - Primordial Power

A mix of Savage Melee with some poison spitting and Sonic Blast/Control thrown in.

Secondary - Primordial Might

A mix of Willpower and Poison

 

lvl 24 choice (no forced respec, but granted a freespec and can choose to open one of the two paths). This choice will affect the story arc (MoP & PoL story arcs merge from this point forward).

 

Path of Enlightenment

Primary - Primordial Wisdom

A mix of Psionic Assault and Mind Control
Secondary - Primordial Knowledge
A little Nature Affinity and Foresight/Mind Link type powers.

 

Path of Madness

Primary - Primordial Rage

Based on Lamashtu's offensive power set.

Secondary - Primordial Will
A little Storm Summoning with some self-Resist powers.

 

Special inherent
Combat Jump+Infiltration-ish power (The equivalent of combined effects of  Combat Jump and Infiltration)

 

Inherent Power

Devotion (each ally in range increases the regen & recovery rate of the character; allies within range have increased global recharge)
 

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Note: Post-24 powers are very similar, but not identical.

This provides a unique skillset that is Jack-of-all-Trades in a manner that is fun, but not overpowering. The re-framing of the Lamashtu/Pazuzu conflict lore also provides an interesting insight into the grayness of Praetoria. This would also provide a more magic-oriented EAT.

[Aurora_Girl]

100% love the obvious care and thoughtfulness put into this. Would play. Well done!

[Glacier Peak]

Cool idea, big ask. I support it though. 

[skoryy]

Everyone will roll one, most will wind up on a shelf, and that'll be it.  Not enough return on dev time investiment.  What you want are less specialized, and more general archetypes.

Edited September 14, 2021 by skoryy

[Coyotedancer]

Skorry has a point... 

It is an interesting idea. though.

[Zepp]

This concept was designed to fit a very specific hole, the lack of Praetorian ATs. It creates Six possible build types (Pathless MoP, Pathless PoL, Enlightened MoP, Enlightened PoL, Madness MoP, and Madness PoL). It is set within established lore, yet allows for an expansion of the storyline. This could also be connected to any efforts to allow Praetorians an easier path to 50 without selling out their home dimension...

 

The other major selling point is the PoL use of slot 0 for a snake form allows limited access to the snake lower body, which has been requested quite often since live. I do support the recycling of powersets for new general archetypes, but this offers an interesting and engaging playstyle with access to EAT storylines that explore the roots of the First Ward/Night Ward storyline while connecting them to the broader Resistance v Loyalist storyline.

 

Also, this would provide strong evidence that Homecoming is a derivative work rather than a copyright violation of CoH further protecting them from legal liabilities...

[krj12]

Interesting concept.   I always wanted an Egyptian themed AT and/or power set, but I doubt they would spend that much time on something so specialized.

 

[Oginth]

I'm not supportive of this. Using LEGO as an analogy, I rather HC provides more building blocks, than more unique playsets.

 

As it is now, we have the crabs and widows, they are unique to themselves, they can't use Melee/Control/Defense, and neither could other AT use Widow/Night/etc. The concept of Mesopotamian-themed are too unique and specific, might be hard to gel with existing AT and lore. I would rather HC introduce new unique "Element"/"Primordial" Melee/Control/etc to existing AT, slowly one by one, until most/all have them

 

I think my main concern is that the AT is themed. Other CoH servers have introduced new AT, but they are not themed to a specific background story. If anyone want to make a Mesopotamian-themed character, let them, but I think Mesopotamian-themed AT is too restrictive to the imagination.

 

In other note, we could use more costumes for people to play out Mesopotamian fantasies.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Oginth
Misunderstood topic's intention

[Zepp]

19 minutes ago, Oginth said:

I'm not supportive of this. Using LEGO as an analogy, I rather HC provides more building blocks, than more unique playsets.

 

As it is now, we have the crabs and widows, they are unique to themselves, they can't use Melee/Control/Defense, and neither could other AT use Widow/Night/etc. The concept of Mesopotamian-themed are too unique and specific, might be hard to gel with existing AT and lore. I would rather HC introduce new unique "Element"/"Primordial" Melee/Control/etc to existing AT, slowly one by one, until most/all have them

 

I think my main concern is that the AT is themed. Other CoH servers have introduced new AT, but they are not themed to a specific background story. If anyone want to make a Mesopotamian-themed character, let them, but I think Mesopotamian-themed AT is too restrictive to the imagination.

 

In other note, we could use more costumes for people to play out Mesopotamian fantasies.

Did you read the proposal?

This is directly linked to the First/Night Ward storyline and is designed as the third set of Epic Archetypes. Blueside has Kheldians, Redside has Soldiers of Arachnos, Goldside has nought. This was trying to rectify that imbalance in a manner which uses existing lore. The "Mesopotamia" theme is connected to the pre-existing storyline and considering a possible way to use a Praetorian version of Cimerora map for a possible flashback or tutorial storyline. It also creates a "fish-out-of-water" opening as a startoff for the EAT-specific content.

[huang3721]

On 9/14/2021 at 12:50 PM, Zepp said:

The underlying storyline of the First Ward/Night Ward arc is the aeons old battle between Pazuzu, son of Hanbi & Lamashtu, daughter of Anu. These are basically demons taken directly from Mesopotamian tradition and placed into the Praetorian context.

 

Which means they are not Praetorian. Pazuzu and Lamasthu belong to another dimension (Night Ward), and they are as native as Praetorian refugee to the Brickstown dwellers. 

 

In my opinion, making a new ATO is hard work. If the new ATO is too strong relative to the existing ATO, everyone will complain. Make it too weak, and nobody will ever use it. It's rarely worth the effort. 

 

Also, I have several questions.

Kheldians are (arguably) unique to the blue side, Widows and Arachnos soldiers to the red side. Why does it have to be Sumerian mythology? I am sure Sumerians also existed in Primal Earth once. Instead, how about those Devoured/Soldier hybrids? Even further, how if the Praetorian Well of Fury selects several hundred champions instead of one? Let's say if a group of interdimensional interlopers messed up one of them, there will be others to fight back (I'm looking at you, filthy Primals). Call this new ATO Last Light of Praetoria or something. I'd say these fit better than the Sumerians.

 

Does it have to be magic-oriented? According to lore, magic is not the only origin of power. In my opinion (again), it is insulting that people gain the ultimate power only after drinking sentient magical juice.

 

Edit

 

Mesopotamian* Sorry, brain fart.

Edited September 16, 2021 by huang3721
Suffering massive brain fart

[Zepp]

4 hours ago, huang3721 said:

 

Which means they are not Praetorian. Pazuzu and Lamasthu belong to another dimension (Night Ward), and they are as native as Praetorian refugee to the Brickstown dwellers. 

 

In my opinion, making a new ATO is hard work. If the new ATO is too strong relative to the existing ATO, everyone will complain. Make it too weak, and nobody will ever use it. It's rarely worth the effort. 

 

Also, I have several questions.

Kheldians are (arguably) unique to the blue side, Widows and Arachnos soldiers to the red side. Why does it have to be Sumerian mythology? I am sure Sumerians also existed in Primal Earth once. Instead, how about those Devoured/Soldier hybrids? Even further, how if the Praetorian Well of Fury selects several hundred champions instead of one? Let's say if a group of interdimensional interlopers messed up one of them, there will be others to fight back (I'm looking at you, filthy Primals). Call this new ATO Last Light of Praetoria or something. I'd say these fit better than the Sumerians.

 

Does it have to be magic-oriented? According to lore, magic is not the only origin of power. In my opinion (again), it is insulting that people gain the ultimate power only after drinking sentient magical juice.

 

Edit

 

Mesopotamian* Sorry, brain fart.

 

First, I would welcome an interesting and thought out proposal for a different type of Praetorian EAT.

The "magic origin" oriented aspect was simply keeping them in line with the original design of origin-specific EATs. Peacebringers->Natural, Warshades->Science, Soldiers of Arachnos & Widows are Natural. It isn't as relevant as it used to be, just useful to conceptualize the idea behind the PrEATs. Taking this down a different path would be interesting for players to play with.

The Night Ward is part of Praetorian Earth, so this gives a link to the Mesopotamians as they appear in CoH uniquely linked to Praetoria. The specific ties I envisioned to Mesopotamian lore would be via the PrEAT story arche(s). This would allow the recycling of Cimeroran maps. Also, I fancied the idea of conceptualizing all of Praetoria as a proxy war unfolding between Pazuzu and Lamashtu. It would be a good foundation for a story that could keep the PrEATs as hidden agents while also making them hidden keys to the power machinations of Praetoria.

 

Of course there are other paths that could be taken to approaching a Praetorian EAT. I just found this one the most interesting and fleshed it out.

One of the benefits of making EATs as opposed to ATs is that they are less complex. There are basically four combinations (and the two possibilities of null Paths) that need to be balanced as opposed to the 182 possible Blaster combinations.

[huang3721]

8 hours ago, Zepp said:

Peacebringers->Natural, Warshades->Science, Soldiers of Arachnos & Widows are Natural.

 

I see. The idea makes sense if we want to balance the number of origins. I channeled my dislike regarding incarnate lore onto your proposal. I'm sorry for that.

 

Still, many other Praetorian characters are more prevalent throughout the lore. In contrast, Pazuzu and Lamasthu showed up in a single arc. Furthermore, one of them is a bad guy. In my opinion, it is akin to using Mot's minion as an EAT for a blue/red side.

 

 

8 hours ago, Zepp said:

This would allow the recycling of Cimeroran maps.

 

I would love access to Cimerora for my Praetorian characters, but I'm still not sure. Archetypes usually have no link to a specific area. The devs have to make two write-ups, then. One is for PrEAT and another story for other archetypes.

 

 

8 hours ago, Zepp said:

One of the benefits of making EATs as opposed to ATs is that they are less complex.

 

I am not a dev, so I can't say if making this EAT is less complex than making other ATs. I believe someone has to select which power goes in and how strong it is from dozens of available options. Not to mention calculating bonuses for this archetype. 

I'd say this proposal is novel, but I am still not convinced with its merit.

[VulnaviaPhibes]

I love this proposal so much. The gradual transformation of the order vs liberty themes of Praetoria from political to mythic is just so fun to see play out in-game, and I really feel like a storyline for these archetypes could integrate those mythic themes back into the main storyline of Praetoria in a way that makes you go "Oh crap! That's what was going on here, that's what this means symbolically..." plus it could add yet another conspiratorial twist, and it's always fun to layer those. Also I love Lamashtu and an elaboration on the relationship between the mythic world and Praetoria would be welcome. PLUS SNAKE BODY. I HAVE ALWAYS WANTED SNAKE BODY. ❤️ This is just wonderful, thank you for suggesting it! ^_^