Why a Brute?

[Without_Pause]

My "world breaker" build is Rad/bio. Not sure I would consider it the most brutish. Post tank fix, I might go with that version, but on a tank. Brutes can be made to fill in well enough as a tank. I'm not sure much of the categorizing matters that much. Any and everything on a team is near a luxury at this point.

[roleki]

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

My thought is the opposite. PUGs aren't running +0x1. Groups you face will be big and last long enough that you're not only going to get mileage out of Fury compared to Tankers but out of your survivability compared to Scrappers.

That might be a thing, who knows.  I don't think I've ever been on a PuG less than 4/8, and they just mow through everything regardless.  It's why I'd rather solo my Brutes and Dominators,  because rando teams just steamroll and that just makes it harder for those bar-builders to... build bars.

[Without_Pause]

Avoid level 50 PuGs. It is on the rarer side you see a PuG running at +4 when they are below 50. Builds in their teens and 20s simply aren't built for it. Note, I think the lead forgot to switch their diff setting when starting a Posi. Yeah, we had to reset. You can even use the Pillar and run some teams through lower level story arcs. Lord knows teams avoid those outside of the well beaten path(Frostfire). If it isn't a TF/trial, AV hunting, farms, or radios, it almost feels like people are going, "But why?" I do see on occasion a level 50 on a lower level PuG.

[RageusQuitus2]

On 9/28/2021 at 6:54 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Yes, tanks were overbuffed at last pass. But it don't matter cuz nuthin's gettin changed.

 

If you team all the time and aren't concerned with solo gameplay, the brute will often shine thanks to all the incoming buffs from your teammates on either the damage or mitigation sides of things. While rare, sure, a brute at the caps is a sight to behold.

 

Solo, however, a brute falls behind both the scrapper and the tank. Who the hell wants almost tank damage with almost scrapper mitigation values? Yes, the taunt auras and the ability to take Taunt are nice. EDIT: Yea, that's a glass half-empty view. You could say that the brute has slightly better damage than the tank with slightly better mitigation thanks to higher HP and caps than the scrapper but you're still dishing out less damage than the scrapper and taking a hell of a lot more damage than the tank.

 

That said, chasing fury can be its own reward. It's a nice reason to fully give in to the scrapperlock.

Ive been wondering if teaming doesnt benefit the /regen brutes.  IOs that max recharge and HPs.  Dull pain to 3300 HPs all the time.  Add in some resist or defense buffs and become hard to kill.

[Bill Z Bubba]

14 minutes ago, RageusQuitus2 said:

Ive been wondering if teaming doesnt benefit the /regen brutes.  IOs that max recharge and HPs.  Dull pain to 3300 HPs all the time.  Add in some resist or defense buffs and become hard to kill.

 

Right up until it meets debuffs. Then it folds like wet tissue.

[Haijinx]

23 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Right up until it meets debuffs. Then it folds like wet tissue.

Its regen

 

Dying in disgrace is its job.

[PLVRIZR]

4 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Its regen

 

Dying in disgrace is its job.

 

Back on Live, I thought a Regen/Claws scrapper would be a cool "Wolverine" build...so I did it.   Ground through the late 30s and got so disgusted I deleted and rerolled a SR/Claws.  That guy ("Wolfen") rocked!

[No Gods No Kings]

So after looking at the sets these are my subjective picks. My criteria for the armor set is that they should easily allow you to get over the scrapper resist caps in someway the other is that they need to either have a damage aura or they need a damaging area attack. This list is just what I think is the most "brutish" Tougher than a scrapper and pumps out more damage. Once again this is not how good the armors are in the game, but how much I think they distinguish brutes from scrappers or Tankers. 

                    Primaries

S Tier - Rad, Spines

A Tier- Savage, Stone, Super Strength 

 

                    Secondary  

S Tier - Electric, Dark, Fire       

A Tier- Bio, Rad, Shield

B Tier - Super Reflexes, 

 

Rad and Spines have damage auras which help bridge the damage gap a  bit to scrappers, savage has low damage but good DOTs which favor Brutes. Stier Armors all have toggle damage auras. Fire and electric kind of pulls into the lead cause they go to the tanker Cap pretty easily. Bio's defense and resists numbers are better on the brute and the more you chase HP the greater the separation between Brute and scrapper.  Rad is a lot like Bio, and Shield is just overall awesome and one with the shield lets you hit those tanker cap numbers, and shield charge gives even more damage. SR I'm not sure belongs but if you slot for resistance the scaling can take you past the Scrapper caps but.. meh. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by No Gods No Kings
Edited to add Sone and Super Strength to list.

[DreadShinobi]

@No Gods No Kings fiery aura with rad spines or savage are all fine choices. I have a spines/fire built for fire farming but my main with over 1500 badges is my rad/fire brute. Fiery aura can often get stuck with having incorrect misconceptions that it performs poorly outside of fire farming. If the character is built for fire farming it certainly can but with a general purpose build it is great at handling all content 1-50 including tanking master badge runs and incarnate trials.

 

Bio armor and Shield are imo better picks for scrappers and tankers and SR better on tankers. Your S tier armor choices are all great on brutes - but only fiery aura has burn. 🔥

Edited October 3, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[Sovera]

I'm leveling a Rad/Fire Armor atm. I only tried this as a Tanker version and it's obscene how the Brute's Fury makes groups simply disappear in the time it takes to kill a boss just from both auras.

[Erratic1]

4 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

Bio armor and Shield are imo better picks for scrappers and tankers and SR better on tankers. Your S tier armor choices are all great on brutes - but only fiery aura has burn. 🔥

 

As  the player of an SS/Bio brute, I am curious what would make Bio better for scrappers and tankers.

[Uun]

Footnote to the primaries list - Stone Melee isn't available to scrappers.

[Haijinx]

Another vote for fire.

 

The +dmg stuff from shield and bio is where scrappers or even tankers shine. 

 

DOTs are Fury's friend 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

As  the player of an SS/Bio brute, I am curious what would make Bio better for scrappers and tankers.

 

I'm guessin it's the normal +damage is more beneficial to scrappers and tanks since, especially in your case, the +dam from offensive mode is drowned out by fury and rage. You're not getting nearly the same usefulness from it. However, a brute can say screw that, and run in defensive mode, be tougher by far than the scrapper and fury/rage will counter the -damage quite well.

[Erratic1]

10 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I'm guessin it's the normal +damage is more beneficial to scrappers and tanks since, especially in your case, the +dam from offensive mode is drowned out by fury and rage. You're not getting nearly the same usefulness from it. However, a brute can say screw that, and run in defensive mode, be tougher by far than the scrapper and fury/rage will counter the -damage quite well.

 

Or do what I do which is run in Efficient mode and literally never have to stop swinging...ever...for any reason. It ups regen, recovery, and endurance cost reduction.  Not as much of a defensive boost as Defensive and the boost to output is not as immediate as Offensive but a little bit of both.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I'm guessin it's the normal +damage is more beneficial to scrappers and tanks since, especially in your case, the +dam from offensive mode is drowned out by fury and rage. You're not getting nearly the same usefulness from it. However, a brute can say screw that, and run in defensive mode, be tougher by far than the scrapper and fury/rage will counter the -damage quite well.

 

Bio/SS tanker tho ...

[Erratic1]

21 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

 

Bio/SS tanker tho ...

 

Just finished  hammering out a (probably stupid) build for a Bio/DM Tanker that I am about to hit the Test Server to try out.

[aethereal]

Scrappers and Brutes are too close to each other.

 

It's really hard to find a stable equilibrium where they both have a role.  For a long time, brutes were just a little better than scrappers, such that there was little point to playing a scrapper.  Now scrappers are a little better than brutes, and it's hard to justify playing a brute.

 

In both cases, it's not that the dominant AT was a lot better, it's that when the ATs are so similar, even a small imbalance becomes, "Well, there's no real point in playing the other one."

 

Scrappers are also probably a little better than stalkers, but stalkers are better-differentiated from scrappers, so there's less pressure to just never play stalkers.

 

Right now, I'll consider Brutes if I want a resistance-based armor on a DPS chaaracter.

[No Gods No Kings]

11 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

@No Gods No Kings fiery aura with rad spines or savage are all fine choices. I have a spines/fire built for fire farming but my main with over 1500 badges is my rad/fire brute. Fiery aura can often get stuck with having incorrect misconceptions that it performs poorly outside of fire farming. If the character is built for fire farming it certainly can but with a general purpose build it is great at handling all content 1-50 including tanking master badge runs and incarnate trials.

 

Bio armor and Shield are imo better picks for scrappers and tankers and SR better on tankers. Your S tier armor choices are all great on brutes - but only fiery aura has burn. 🔥

 

 

Yeah I had the misconception that Fire Aura was squishy it is anything but and healing flames give you click Toxic resist so in the early game a fire Tank is pretty good vs Vaz. 

 

Bio and Shield are debatable, I don't think that they don't put themselves as far out ahead but the have mechanisms that allow you to get a small but noticeable survivability bump. With AOE damage being overall lower than Single target damage the smaller scale favors the Brutes. Bio might actually be in S Tier, I forgot it does have a damage toggle aura, though the defenses themselves are not noticeably better than the scrapper version. 

[No Gods No Kings]

7 hours ago, Uun said:

Footnote to the primaries list - Stone Melee isn't available to scrappers.

 You are right about that I'm going to edit my list maybe it goes with Savage.

 

5 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I'm guessin it's the normal +damage is more beneficial to scrappers and tanks since, especially in your case, the +dam from offensive mode is drowned out by fury and rage. You're not getting nearly the same usefulness from it. However, a brute can say screw that, and run in defensive mode, be tougher by far than the scrapper and fury/rage will counter the -damage quite well.

 

 

Yeah it is kind of making me think I would put Bio higher, Toggle Damage Aura, I sort of of forgot about SS I might go back and add it to the list. 

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

Scrappers and Brutes are too close to each other.

 

It's really hard to find a stable equilibrium where they both have a role.  For a long time, brutes were just a little better than scrappers, such that there was little point to playing a scrapper.  Now scrappers are a little better than brutes, and it's hard to justify playing a brute.

 

In both cases, it's not that the dominant AT was a lot better, it's that when the ATs are so similar, even a small imbalance becomes, "Well, there's no real point in playing the other one."

 

Scrappers are also probably a little better than stalkers, but stalkers are better-differentiated from scrappers, so there's less pressure to just never play stalkers.

 

Right now, I'll consider Brutes if I want a resistance-based armor on a DPS character.

I struggled with Bio cause Fire, Elec, Dark, are just clearly tougher on a Brute, yet Bio is otherwise as good as it gets but I didn't take into account that you could run Defensive mode as I am always in damage mode. 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by No Gods No Kings

[StriderIV]

11 hours ago, Sovera said:

I'm leveling a Rad/Fire Armor atm. I only tried this as a Tanker version and it's obscene how the Brute's Fury makes groups simply disappear in the time it takes to kill a boss just from both auras.

Nice man! I have a Rad/Fire brute built for farming. As I’ve played it though, I’ve thought “man, I feel this could be really great for all content.” Let me know your thoughts about the combo when you’re done leveling it! I feel the dots from Fire and a proved out Irradiated Ground could really make things melt with this combo on a Brute (with their fury ramped up).

Edited October 3, 2021 by StriderIV

[Sovera]

I just started a Rad/Fire Armor and I must say this combo slays on a Brute. I got to a point I sometimes killed Freak tanks in Yin before they even healed. Soloed a Synapse at +1x8 in 1h36 which as good as some full teams I have done it in the past.

 

All those DoTs play really well with Fury. I suppose it will slow down once at +3. I'll make a post for it once I level it and test some more if I really need Cardiac or not since it is very endurance guzzly.

[Haijinx]

7 hours ago, No Gods No Kings said:

 

 

Yeah I had the misconception that Fire Aura was squishy it is anything but and healing flames give you click Toxic resist so in the early game a fire Tank is pretty good vs Vaz. 

 

Bio and Shield are debatable, I don't think that they don't put themselves as far out ahead but the have mechanisms that allow you to get a small but noticeable survivability bump. With AOE damage being overall lower than Single target damage the smaller scale favors the Brutes. Bio might actually be in S Tier, I forgot it does have a damage toggle aura, though the defenses themselves are not noticeably better than the scrapper version. 

 

It is kind of squishy, but you burn stuff down so fast that it doesn't seem like it. 

 

Plus if you go down you can always Nuke them when you rez. 

[DreadShinobi]

20 hours ago, Sovera said:

I'm leveling a Rad/Fire Armor atm. I only tried this as a Tanker version and it's obscene how the Brute's Fury makes groups simply disappear in the time it takes to kill a boss just from both auras.

Any brute with a damage aura is extremely overtuned at lower levels because of fury. You can ride on a 190% dmg bonus before buying any enhancements. After SOs come into play it evens out more and narrows further with IOs.

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

Any brute with a damage aura is extremely overtuned at lower levels because of fury. You can ride on a 190% dmg bonus before buying any enhancements. After SOs come into play it evens out more and narrows further with IOs.

 

Yeah, I know, but I'm talking level 25 with Yin and watching the Freak tanks sometimes dying before they got a chance to heal. And this while still poorly slotted and no damage procs in attacks. Even in Citadel I barely had to bother switching targets once I killed th boss in a spawn.

 

But it's just fun, it's not like it is hugely overperforming to do the AoE passively or actually use an AoE skill.