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What's hurting Dark Primary for Blasters?


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As I'd already pointed out, dark blasters don't trade damage for controls to begin with. They might trade burst damage for a cone immobilize, But TT does damage on par with other Blaster cone attacks. It's not the highest damage blaster cone, but it's middle of the pack in terms of strength. And it does twice as much damage as the Defender version of TT. Corrupters do more damage at base, but with a blaster's inherent they'll get more damage overall out of it.

 

In fact, none of Dark Blast (blaster version) sacrifices damage for utility. It gets both damage and utility. But even if that wasn't the case, blasters have long traded damage for utility. That's the whole point of one secondary after all.

 

They trade damage per second in a game where high damage per second counts most. I'll leave it at that though. This is an argument that I do not think can be won when people like it just as is. Not everyone is going to like a powerset for the same reasons. I see potential in the set, and I se some work arounds, so it is not important to me to try and get the set changed. I understand why you guys like it, just as I am sure you understand why I don't like a couple of the powers. Nobody could change my mind about Practiced Brawler being left as is. Nobody could convince me to change it. Just as I know that no matter what I said, I could never get you to change your mind.  ;)

 

Like I said, a ton of people I talk to in game, random people every day, feel as though Dark Primary and Secondary for a Blaster is a joke. Not surprisingly, the people on the forums feel differently. I am in the middle on this, I love the set, but only see two abilities wrong with the set. So I see both sides.

 

Except it doesn't trade DPS. The DPS for TT is on par with any other Blaster cone attack. What it trades is burst damage, which is not quite the same thing. And this trade is only made with one single attack. Lead off with TT, and you'll get the full damage on most of the enemies hit with it. Follow up with another cone attack (since enemies are still nicely grouped for it), and that too gets full damage on everything. And TT has likely now managed to deal most to all of it's damage to your primary target. Start using your single target attacks next. You might get less then full TT damage on one of the enemies caught in it, but then again with any other blaster set the 2nd or 3rd attack was probably overkill which 'wasted' damage as well. Or in other words you didn't trade any damage, but got a cone immobilize. The only thing you didn't get was a Single Big Number showing above everything's head when TT hit. Thus it likely feels like it does little damage.

 

Then again the various 'rain' powers also show multiple ticks of low damage yet nobody complains about them trading damage for a secondary effect. In fact, it's entirely possible for an enemy to exit most Rain type attacks before they took the full damage from it. They can't do that with TT.

 

Okay, let me be more clear on how I mean this. If I hit you with an Ice attack, it does an instant 100 points of damage. If I can pull off three attack of 100, 50 and 25 in less than 2 seconds, and my target has 175 health, my target dies in less than 3 seconds.

 

If I am using dark, and it does 100 damage, 50 and 25, but only tics 10 damage per second...my target will take much longer to die than if I had used Ice.

 

So, damage per second...in a more literal sense.

 

P.S. I couldn't read all of your message, in a TF at the moment, will finish reading it shortly, promise.

 

Edit: I hear what you are saying, however, the Dot for TT tics way too slow. It's not a big deal though, I found a way around all of that, I just have to use Ghost Widow's powerset to do it. In the end, all will be well.

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Okay, let me be more clear on how I mean this. If I hit you with an Ice attack, it does an instant 100 points of damage. If I can pull off three attack of 100, 50 and 25 in less than 2 seconds, and my target has 175 health, my target dies in less than 3 seconds.

 

If I am using dark, and it does 100 damage, 50 and 25, but only tics 10 damage per second...my target will take much longer to die than if I had used Ice.

 

So, damage per second...in a more literal sense.

 

P.S. I couldn't read all of your message, in a TF at the moment, will finish reading it shortly, promise.

 

You keep making the exact same mistake. You keep assuming every Dark Blast power is a damage over time. They aren't. There is one damage over time attack in Dark Blast. And it is a cone attack, not a single target one. So let's take your (flawed) analogy. I'll explain why it's flawed in a moment.

 

You have a group of 6 enemies with 175 health each at level 50. You probably wont find this, but let's go with it since that's your example. Let's say for some reason you haven't enhanced your attacks beyond accuracy. I will be listing first AoE attacks in descending strength, then cone attacks in decending strength, then single target attacks in descending strength.

 

For Ice Blast

Blizzard:

Target Type: location based aoe

Damage: 76 ticks of 2.78 lethal damage over 15 seconds, 76 ticks of 2.78 cold damage over 15 seconds, total damage of 422.56 damage over 15 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 2.42

Cast Time: 2.03 seconds

Recharge Time: 2 minutes 50 seconds

 

Ice Storm:

Target Type: location based aoe

Damage: 76 ticks of 0.78 lethal damage over 15 seconds, 76 ticks of 0.78 cold damage over 15 seconds, total of 118.56 damage over 15 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 1.88

Cast Time: 2.03 second

Recharge Time: 1 minute

 

Frost Breath:

Target Type: 40 foot long 30 degree wide cone

Damage: 2 ticks of 43.79 cold damage over 0.6 seconds, total damage of 87.58 damage over 0.6 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 4.69

Cast Time: 2.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 16.seconds

 

Bitter Freeze Ray:

Target Type: single target

Damage: 172.67 cold damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 9.87

Cast Time: 2.5 seconds

Recharge Time 15 second

 

Freeze Ray:

Target Type: single target

Damage: 11 ticks of 12.51 cold damage over 2 seconds, total of 137.61 damage over 2 seconds mag 3 hold for 9.54 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 12.51

Cast Time: 1 second

Recharge Time: 10 seconds

 

Ice Blast:

Target Type: single target

Damage: 40.04 smashing damage, 62.56 cold damage, total of 102.6 damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 10.61

Cast Time: 1.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 8 seconds

 

Ice Bolt:

Target Type: single target

Damage: 12.51 smashing damage, 50.05 cold damage, total of 62.56 damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 12.51

Cast Time: 1 seconds

Recharge Time: 4 seconds

 

 

Compare this to Dark blast. Again I'll list things in AoE (strongest to weakest), then cone (strongest to weakest), then single target (strongest to weakest).

 

Blackstar

Target Type: PBAoE

Damage: 62.56 smashing damage, 187.68 negative energy damage, total of 250.24 damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 1.69

Cast Time: 3 seconds

Recharge Time: 2 minutes 25 seconds

 

Umbral Torrent

Target Type: 80 ft long 30 degree wide cone

Damage: 60.06 negative energy

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 3.75

Cast Time: 1.03 seconds

Recharge Time: 15 seconds

 

Tenebrous Tentacles

Target Type: 40 foot long 40 degree wide cone

Damage: 8.45 negative energy damage, 8 ticks of 6.26 negative energy damage over 7.1 seconds after a 1 second delay, total of 58.53 damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 5.01

Cast Time: 1.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 10 seconds

 

Gloom

Target Type: single target

Damage: 8 ticks of 13.76 negative energy damage over 3.6 seconds, total damage of 110.08

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 11.39

Cast Time: 1.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 8 seconds

 

Life Drain

Target Type: single target

Damage: 102.6 negative energy damage, +120.48 self heal

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 10.33

Cast Time: 1.93 seconds

Recharge Time: 8 seconds

 

Abyssal Gaze

Target Type: single target

Damage: 3 ticks of 29.53 negative energy damage over 2.1 seconds, total of 88.59 damage, mag 3 hold for 9.54 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 4.09

Cast Time: 1.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 20 seconds

 

Dark Blast

Target Type: single target

Damage: 62.56 negative energy damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 12.51

Cast Time: 1 seconds

Recharge Time: 4 seconds

 

You'll notice I didn't list any snipe attacks. There's a couple reasons for that. First of all, Ice Blast doesn't have a snipe. And second of all, you can't get any of the stats for Dark Blast's snipe in the character creation menu. But when you actually compare the numbers, you notice something rather interesting things. For one, while Ice Blast has higher damage many of those are DoT attacks. With the more damaging ones being location based DoT which the enemy will flee before they take the full damage unless you can prevent it. You should also take note that  with the hypothetical group of enemies that all have 175 health, most finishing attacks are wasting damage regardless of if it was Dark or Ice Blast being used. And when you factor in cast times, yes TT is going to get it's full damage of on most of the enemy group, unless you follow it up with Blackstar. But why wouldn't you be leading off with Blackstar instead, and just wiping out the entire group all at once? Something which Ice Blast's tier 9 nuke can't always claim to do since enemies tend to flee the area as soon as it's cast.

 

You also notice that the Damage Per Activation Cycle for both sets is roughly the same across the board. Imagine that, they both do the same overall damage due to Ice Blast having generally longer recharge times and activation times.

 

Can we please put this "dark blast sacrifices damage for control" myth to bed now?

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Okay, let me be more clear on how I mean this. If I hit you with an Ice attack, it does an instant 100 points of damage. If I can pull off three attack of 100, 50 and 25 in less than 2 seconds, and my target has 175 health, my target dies in less than 3 seconds.

 

If I am using dark, and it does 100 damage, 50 and 25, but only tics 10 damage per second...my target will take much longer to die than if I had used Ice.

 

So, damage per second...in a more literal sense.

 

P.S. I couldn't read all of your message, in a TF at the moment, will finish reading it shortly, promise.

 

You keep making the exact same mistake. You keep assuming every Dark Blast power is a damage over time. They aren't. There is one damage over time attack in Dark Blast. And it is a cone attack, not a single target one. So let's take your (flawed) analogy. I'll explain why it's flawed in a moment.

 

You have a group of 6 enemies with 175 health each at level 50. You probably wont find this, but let's go with it since that's your example. Let's say for some reason you haven't enhanced your attacks beyond accuracy. I will be listing first AoE attacks in descending strength, then cone attacks in decending strength, then single target attacks in descending strength.

 

For Ice Blast

Blizzard:

Target Type: location based aoe

Damage: 76 ticks of 2.78 lethal damage over 15 seconds, 76 ticks of 2.78 cold damage over 15 seconds, total damage of 422.56 damage over 15 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 2.42

Cast Time: 2.03 seconds

Recharge Time: 2 minutes 50 seconds

 

Ice Storm:

Target Type: location based aoe

Damage: 76 ticks of 0.78 lethal damage over 15 seconds, 76 ticks of 0.78 cold damage over 15 seconds, total of 118.56 damage over 15 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 1.88

Cast Time: 2.03 second

Recharge Time: 1 minute

 

Frost Breath:

Target Type: 40 foot long 30 degree wide cone

Damage: 2 ticks of 43.79 cold damage over 0.6 seconds, total damage of 87.58 damage over 0.6 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 4.69

Cast Time: 2.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 16.seconds

 

Bitter Freeze Ray:

Target Type: single target

Damage: 172.67 cold damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 9.87

Cast Time: 2.5 seconds

Recharge Time 15 second

 

Freeze Ray:

Target Type: single target

Damage: 11 ticks of 12.51 cold damage over 2 seconds, total of 137.61 damage over 2 seconds mag 3 hold for 9.54 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 12.51

Cast Time: 1 second

Recharge Time: 10 seconds

 

Ice Blast:

Target Type: single target

Damage: 40.04 smashing damage, 62.56 cold damage, total of 102.6 damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 10.61

Cast Time: 1.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 8 seconds

 

Ice Bolt:

Target Type: single target

Damage: 12.51 smashing damage, 50.05 cold damage, total of 62.56 damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 12.51

Cast Time: 1 seconds

Recharge Time: 4 seconds

 

 

Compare this to Dark blast. Again I'll list things in AoE (strongest to weakest), then cone (strongest to weakest), then single target (strongest to weakest).

 

Blackstar

Target Type: PBAoE

Damage: 62.56 smashing damage, 187.68 negative energy damage, total of 250.24 damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 1.69

Cast Time: 3 seconds

Recharge Time: 2 minutes 25 seconds

 

Umbral Torrent

Target Type: 80 ft long 30 degree wide cone

Damage: 60.06 negative energy

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 3.75

Cast Time: 1.03 seconds

Recharge Time: 15 seconds

 

Tenebrous Tentacles

Target Type: 40 foot long 40 degree wide cone

Damage: 8.45 negative energy damage, 8 ticks of 6.26 negative energy damage over 7.1 seconds after a 1 second delay, total of 58.53 damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 5.01

Cast Time: 1.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 10 seconds

 

Gloom

Target Type: single target

Damage: 8 ticks of 13.76 negative energy damage over 3.6 seconds, total damage of 110.08

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 11.39

Cast Time: 1.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 8 seconds

 

Life Drain

Target Type: single target

Damage: 102.6 negative energy damage, +120.48 self heal

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 10.33

Cast Time: 1.93 seconds

Recharge Time: 8 seconds

 

Abyssal Gaze

Target Type: single target

Damage: 3 ticks of 29.53 negative energy damage over 2.1 seconds, total of 88.59 damage, mag 3 hold for 9.54 seconds

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 4.09

Cast Time: 1.67 seconds

Recharge Time: 20 seconds

 

Dark Blast

Target Type: single target

Damage: 62.56 negative energy damage

Average Damage Per Cast Cycle: 12.51

Cast Time: 1 seconds

Recharge Time: 4 seconds

 

You'll notice I didn't list any snipe attacks. There's a couple reasons for that. First of all, Ice Blast doesn't have a snipe. And second of all, you can't get any of the stats for Dark Blast's snipe in the character creation menu. But when you actually compare the numbers, you notice something rather interesting things. For one, while Ice Blast has higher damage many of those are DoT attacks. With the more damaging ones being location based DoT which the enemy will flee before they take the full damage unless you can prevent it. You should also take note that  with the hypothetical group of enemies that all have 175 health, most finishing attacks are wasting damage regardless of if it was Dark or Ice Blast being used. And when you factor in cast times, yes TT is going to get it's full damage of on most of the enemy group, unless you follow it up with Blackstar. But why wouldn't you be leading off with Blackstar instead, and just wiping out the entire group all at once? Something which Ice Blast's tier 9 nuke can't always claim to do since enemies tend to flee the area as soon as it's cast.

 

You also notice that the Damage Per Activation Cycle for both sets is roughly the same across the board. Imagine that, they both do the same overall damage due to Ice Blast having generally longer recharge times and activation times.

 

Can we please put this "dark blast sacrifices damage for control" myth to bed now?

 

It's not a myth though, depending on how you apply what you wrote and the environment you apply it under. Let me say for starters, yes...you are correct. However...

 

What you typed up sounds terrific on paper, under strict scenarios and controlled circumstances. However, in actual game play, how often does your TT finish its dots before the mobs die? I would say that it depends on what you have on your team and what you are up against. You need to realize that things are not always white and black. This is where it boils down to personal preference I suppose, and my preference differs from yours.

 

The problem with TT is that it is a huge grey area. It widely depends on so many variable in order for the math that you apply to actually stand. The ONLY way TT is getting off its tics of damage before the mob dies, is if you solo, or if you fight a high resistant mob, like Crey for an example. Otherwise, mobs are going to melt under the blasting power of more front loaded DPS like Fire Blasters, and single targets are going to drop fast under the fury of Ice Blasters. Yes, Ice Blasters has DoTs as well, however, those DoTs tick very fast whereas TT tics one dot per actual second. I understand you say that Ice Storm makes the mobs scatter, however, I don't have that issue, mobs seem more interested in the Tank than running off. Sure, a couple might run, but then they run right back in. However, back to what I was saying, if you are on a team of competent players, TT will rarely finish the damage that it is capable of. This is where I feel like your argument doesn't apply. Your argument applies under strict and controlled environments. Not in actual game play where variables change from team to team, and mob to mob...at least not in my personal experience.

 

What I am writing is no myth...the very slow ticking dots on TT hurts the set as a Blaster set. Which is why as soon as I can I am respecing out of it. What you are saying is true, yes...I cannot deny this....however, you are not taking in to consideration the very important variables.

 

At this point though, I will agree to disagree. It's honestly more about what you consider important about the set and what you like about the set. The set for me has two powers that I don't like. Lucky for me I do not have to take them. I can pick up other powers in the Epics or Ancillary to help fill what I feel like are holes in the set.

 

Anyway, hope this helps you understand where I am coming from here....even if you feel like my thoughts on this are flawed.  ;)

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How often does any blaster get the full effect from their DoT while on a team? Sure you can hit for 100 damage in a single hit, but how often did the enemy only have 30 health left when your attack landed? When teaming any blaster is going to be 'wasting' damage quite regularly. DoT or Burst damage, it doesn't matter. Most of your damage is being wasted on enemies that died after only taking a portion of it. Hell, just using a Nova power will frequently be wasting damage because it's doing far more damage then any of the enemies being hit have health.

 

If you're going to claim that Dark's DoT are low damage due to being a DoT and everything dying too fast, better make the same claim for every other DoT. That includes every single Fire Blast attack, at least a third of Ice Blast's attacks, and so forth. Better also claim that any Rain Of type attack is useless because enemies run out of it, thus don't take the full damage. Go through the list I made of attacks for Ice Blast again. This time pay attention to how many of them are a DoT which takes 6-15 seconds to complete. There's more then you might expect. Fire Blast will be the same. In fact, if you ignore the minor fire DoT (since enemies are expected to die before it can matter) Fire Blast's much vaunted high damage... isn't as high as you thought.

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How often does any blaster get the full effect from their DoT while on a team? Sure you can hit for 100 damage in a single hit, but how often did the enemy only have 30 health left when your attack landed? When teaming any blaster is going to be 'wasting' damage quite regularly. DoT or Burst damage, it doesn't matter. Most of your damage is being wasted on enemies that died after only taking a portion of it. Hell, just using a Nova power will frequently be wasting damage because it's doing far more damage then any of the enemies being hit have health.

 

If you're going to claim that Dark's DoT are low damage due to being a DoT and everything dying too fast, better make the same claim for every other DoT. That includes every single Fire Blast attack, at least a third of Ice Blast's attacks, and so forth. Better also claim that any Rain Of type attack is useless because enemies run out of it, thus don't take the full damage. Go through the list I made of attacks for Ice Blast again. This time pay attention to how many of them are a DoT which takes 6-15 seconds to complete. There's more then you might expect. Fire Blast will be the same. In fact, if you ignore the minor fire DoT (since enemies are expected to die before it can matter) Fire Blast's much vaunted high damage... isn't as high as you thought.

 

Like I said, I'm going to agree to disagree. We can debate this all month long. Honestly, since I am NOT asking for changes here, it's not worth it to me to continue this conversation. Had I been interested in a change, I would debate this further, but since I am not, well...it's simply too much going back and forth.

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Since you want to bring up in game scenerios, let me share a story from the old days that still burns bright inmy memory because it is the event that made me swear off ever joining other peoples task forces and only leading them.

 

I was on my Psi/Ment Bentley Berkeley. Which truly without trying to sound as arrogant as I know it will, I was with easily among the top 10 blaster character/players on virtue server.

 

There was a person forming a lady grey TF, they were the typical over kill firex3 blaster build so favored for AE farming. It was a pretty slow form up because they wanted the perfect team. I myself had and could of easily lead it taking anyone of the right level and even given a solid estimate of the ETA to complete. But I wasnt leading and sat patiently for nearly an hour as it filled.

 

This idjit of a fireX3 grabbed a brute for our tank. I mean sure a good lvl 50 brute can be a decent tank potentially but in practice rarely were. Not dissing that brute he was a damn nice guy I recall as was everyone except our glorious leader.

 

It ws pretty obvious in the first mish things wouldnt be smooth. Brute was struggling to take the brunt. Healer kept having to  focus on our leader and the brute kept going down. I stopped holding back and started taking the front line. Between IO set bonuses, and temp powers my psi res was actually  way above most tanks and it was them good ol rikti psi  bosses doing the real number to my allies.

 

FireX3 kept nuking, dieing, self rez nuking dieing. And every time berated everyone else. Blamed the healer for bot being a good enough healer, blamed the brute for not being a tank. Blamed me for being too good at surviving.

 

Then I think mish 3 in, we reach a certain infamous room. Most called it the room of death back in the day due to mob density and the near impossibility to not aggro the whole room at once. Especially with a fire X3 AOEing with no thought to managing their own aggro draw.

 

I cleared that room alone with my blaster while the whole team was wiped in seconds. At that point I stopped biting my tongue and chewed out the leader and defended the efforts of the rest of the team that honestly would of been a great team without that idjit. At this point we had spent more then an hour in the TF, and a number of us had spent nearly an hour while the team had been put together.

 

The leader threatened to boot me. I said too late Ill quit and start a new LG run and finish it before this team will without my help. Fire X3 didnt believe me, sadly the others even begged me to stay couldnt believe my bold claim.

 

I left the mish left the team and did just as I said. They hadnet even finished that mission by the time my new team had reached it. As they all exited about the same time as my new team had and we basically caught up and passed them by at that point. I told my old allies I wish they had come with me. That team then broke up as the firex3 had become incredibly abusive to them all from what the brute player PMd to me.

 

In practice in my experience over kill blasters rarely do well. Most blaster players are frankly just bad at it. I recall metrics being shown on the old forums that showed blaster was the most common starting AT with fully half of all players first character being a blaster. Less then 5% of those ever reached level 20.

 

As I may have said before I back in the day played every possible blaster combo to at least 32 or 38 if not to cap exploring the power sets and how they complimented each other.

 

As far as I am concerned it was my unceasing quest on the forums to get more self recovery and healing powers in blasters akin to drain psyche that lead to the revamp of blaster 2ndaries. I literally made taht point at blaster forums over and over for years stating the only issue blasters really had was bad players and a lack of some self healing as all DPS ATs should have some modest way to avoid lengthy down times between fights.

 

Blaster is maybe the single most played but least understood and played well AT in the entire game, with tanks being a close 2nd.

 

Scrappers are super user friendly and likely why so many end up maining scrappers after struggling with blasters.

 

Nor am I trying to change your mind, just make you aware there are blasters out there that are capable of soloing AVs and taking on 8 man scalled groups solo in wars of attrition and not just by nuking and phasing to let the dot finish them.

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Dark Blast always felt...Off to me.  Clunky or segmented.  I love Dark Blast but I never could level one to 50.  Fast forward to Live Beta many years ago I finally realized what I personally felt was missing the Snipe.  The ToHit change made the set work smoothly in my mind and the KB-KD was just the icing on the cake at that point.  I'm confident that once the new Snipe changes hit the main server I will be able to get a Dark Blast toon and a Dark Assault toon to lvl 50  8)

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I been following this thread the past few days and it feels like the biggest troll thread of the century.

 

  Unfortunately you not going to convince the op that Dark is on par with other blasters because he has already made up his mind on the playstyle. If every powers were the same this game would be super lame.  I've Parse more damage than fire blasters not because Dark stronger but because I know how to play my char. Its all about positioning in dark for continues aoe cones, jump in nukes and then massive holds on Bosses, well that last part is because of /temporal synergy. As a Tank at heart I am very aware of the fight and am not afraid to take those leaps and I rarely see that floor because of the synergy of Dark.  When you take the KB-> KD you become team friendly and that cone is HUGE.

 

I hate blasters but love my dark blaster see a difference everyone has different playstyle but completely ignoring the facts of dark power is fine by me but you will never find great combos by just focusing on damage.  You find great combos by synergizing  secondary effects together from primary and secondary powersets

 

This Threads so funny to me, this game is made to fit anyone playstyle if its not for you  it doesn't mean you have to change it to fit you. Find a power set that fits you and change the color to dark, there ya go. My Dark blaster shoots white plasma balls. There nothing dark about him. 

 

For example I love Tankers my main was Inv/SS on live. I herd SS/Shield brutes where super amazing  I plvl one up to 40 and found it clunky and  unappealing compared to my fire/shield scrapper . I did  not come onto the forum and rant how bad the combo was it could get some great numbers but just felt clunky to me. The other combo felt smooth.  I could still clear content with the SS/shield brute but it wasn't for me.

 

If it doesn't feel right then try something else out, but can you play Dark at a high lvl  absolutely Yes, does its damage compare YES it just plays differently.

 

Btw the cones on Dark are larger (wider and longer) remember that its makes a huge difference in over all damage.

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I haven't played a Dark blaster since live, but from what I remember, while there might be some scope for changing numbers around, I don't think there needs to be a major overhaul of the power behaviors. In particular, one thing I would definitely not want to see would be for Dark to lose either of it cones attacks. Having only that shape of AoE is part of what makes Dark interesting - only AR really shares that aspect. If we were to tweak anything in terms of power mechanics, I'd like to see Blackstar changed from a classic nuke into something that fits with the ranged behaviour of the cone attacks.

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I haven't played a Dark blaster since live, but from what I remember, while there might be some scope for changing numbers around, I don't think there needs to be a major overhaul of the power behaviors. In particular, one thing I would definitely not want to see would be for Dark to lose either of it cones attacks. Having only that shape of AoE is part of what makes Dark interesting - only AR really shares that aspect. If we were to tweak anything in terms of power mechanics, I'd like to see Blackstar changed from a classic nuke into something that fits with the ranged behaviour of the cone attacks.

 

After the many discussions I have had in this thread, and honestly taking them in to consideration, there is only two things I would do to the set; A) I would decrease the amount of time it takes for TT's dots to tic by 3 tics per second rather than 1 tic per second. B) I would add Engulfing Darkness to the Secondary.

 

If those two things happened, I honestly think Dark/Dark would become my favorite powerset for Blasters.

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Blaster is maybe the . . . least understood and played well AT in the entire game, with tanks being a close 2nd.

 

Just wanted to highlight and strongly agree with this comment, in the context of the thread and in general.

 

(I think Brutes or MMs are most-played right now.)

 

I can most certainly agree with this statement.

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Blaster is maybe the . . . least understood and played well AT in the entire game, with tanks being a close 2nd.

 

Just wanted to highlight and strongly agree with this comment, in the context of the thread and in general.

 

(I think Brutes or MMs are most-played right now.)

 

There is actually a shocking number of Emp Defenders right now, in my experience.  Like it's actually kind of baffling.

 

I will absolutely agree that Blasters are poorly played, as is expected.  It's the pew-pew-explosions class, it is going to by it's very nature attract players on the, shall we say, lower end of the intelligence and/or skill spectrum.  Not to generalize, I've played Blaster plenty and I know plenty of smart people who have, but let's be real: The Timmies of the world just want to see big fireballs with big numbers.

 

However, I have to disagree with Tankers being second.  Tankers are, in my experience, the absolute single most poorly played AT in the game and always have been.  And that confuses me, because they aren't exactly high skill-cap.  And yet I keep finding Tankers who think they don't need Taunt, and thus have no way to manage aggro.  Brutes are close, but they get more leeway since they ride the line between Tanker and Scrapper.  I'm just one of those lunatics who likes to tank on my Brute.

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I think it would help immensely if one of the free IOS you get at the P2W vendor was a “Knockback to knockdown” choice. This would help several ATs as they start out and might make the Sudden Accel ones get used more often.

 

That is a terrible idea IMO.

 

Why hate on KB?

KB is AWESOME.

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I think it would help immensely if one of the free IOS you get at the P2W vendor was a “Knockback to knockdown” choice. This would help several ATs as they start out and might make the Sudden Accel ones get used more often.

 

That is a terrible idea IMO.

 

Why hate on KB?

KB is AWESOME.

 

Because most players use KB to scatter mobs and go, "Lookie at what I did!" instead of using their KB to synergize with the team. There are fewer good players who use KB correctly than these forums make it out to be.

 

I agree...there should be a way to turn KB on or off and make it a KD on all KB/KD powers. This way it becomes a choice, rather than a function you cannot control.

 

KB on your account, because you are the one playing that account, may be fantastic, assuming you know how to utilize it to your team's advantage. However, for all those other bad players, who outnumber perceptively the good one, who just love watching mobs fly, despite a Tanks best efforts to round them up, KB is a HORRIBLE thing.

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As soon one who depends on KB frequently (I solo frequently, so for me the extra time that an enemy takes to get back into range to attack is extra time for me to be managing a different foe), what is the best way to use KB as part of the team?

 

I'm asking honestly - I hear all the time that people don't use KB the right way, but then they go on to describe all the wrong ways...

"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr

 

Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting

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As soon one who depends on KB frequently (I solo frequently, so for me the extra time that an enemy takes to get back into range to attack is extra time for me to be managing a different foe), what is the best way to use KB as part of the team?

 

I'm asking honestly - I hear all the time that people don't use KB the right way, but then they go on to describe all the wrong ways...

 

KB into a corner or against a near wall would be one way. KB as alpha strike can also work well depending the situation. I used KB on my Claws/regen scrapper quite a bit that way.

Without Pause Claws/wp brute, Nothing But Flowers Plant/storm, Waterpark Water/temp blaster, Sneakers StJ/en stalker,

Current obsession(s): Earth/earth dom, Rad/bio brute.

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As soon one who depends on KB frequently (I solo frequently, so for me the extra time that an enemy takes to get back into range to attack is extra time for me to be managing a different foe), what is the best way to use KB as part of the team?

 

I'm asking honestly - I hear all the time that people don't use KB the right way, but then they go on to describe all the wrong ways...

 

Tanks usually gather mobs into a corner...angle your KB to where the mobs slam in to the corner the tank is in, and you are praised as a good KB player. If no corners are available, wait for the co stroller to lock down the mob before you unleash your fury. If no troller and no corner, hover above the mob and aim straight downward.

 

You can also use your KB to make the flock go in the direction of the Tank if you get some that stray.

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I am curious what you guys think (or maybe you don't think) may be hurting Dark Primary (don't get me started on Secondaries) for Blasters.

 

Me personally, it boils down to two things. Umbral Torrent, and Tenebrous Tentacles.

 

Umbral Torrent: Yet another Knock Back. I know some people like Knock Backs, but to many players like myself, Knock Back is a bane we simply don't want, nor need... we hate it. By making it knock back, you pretty much involuntarily ostracized much of the player base...which if you skip the power, limits your options and your DPS potential. Not to mention, if you really want to pick at it, the animation to me is simply not visually appealing.

 

Tenebrous Tentacles: Maybe you agree, maybe you don't, (City of Heroes players can never agree on anything, lol) but the last thing a Blaster needs, is a Cone Immob that does craptastic damage. Blasters need AoE DPS, something that stings when you use it. Something that goes boom!

 

What do I believe the Blaster should have been given in their places? Glad you have asked!

 

To replace Umbral Torrent? I believe the Blaster should have been given a beefed up version of Night Fall. A Cone DoT attack with a wide cone area. Not to mention, the attack animation is very appealing to the eyes.

 

To replace Tenebrous Tentacles? I believe the Blaster should have been given a beefed up version of Engulfing Darkness. A Dark version of Irradiate and again, has a very nice animation and an AoE that the set needs if Tenebrous Tentacles were to be replaced.

 

Now this is just my opinion, some may agree, some may not, but this is City of Heroes...where all equally love the game, but none agree. So I am expecting half and half on this one. However, I don't mind if you disagree, but I am curious of how you would change the set if you could, or if you would leave it as is, and if you would leave it as is, I ask you...do you play a Dark Blaster?

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this. Hope to see how others view Dark Primary for Blasters. Would be nice if we all agreed, but something tells me, in good ol' City of Heroes tradition, we won't.  :D

 

Some ats simply have better synergy with power sets, and thats great, I prefer it this way. Dark/Dark is great with defenders/ corruptors.

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KB on your account, because you are the one playing that account, may be fantastic, assuming you know how to utilize it to your team's advantage. However, for all those other bad players, who outnumber perceptively the good one, who just love watching mobs fly, despite a Tanks best efforts to round them up, KB is a HORRIBLE thing.

 

What you describe is simply a trolly/inexperienced/young player IMO.

This idea that almost all KBs are somehow out to ruin the fun is just silly from my PoV.

 

Dark mitigates with -toHit, KB does it in a different way.

KB is super fun as a mitigation tool, while watching awesome ragdoll and creating just the sort of chaos some players don't like.

I have sparred for about 18 years now with players over KB, no biggie.

 

IME, people that don't like KB are not fun to play games with, because I like to play, not plod along doing the Tank-herd-wait-here-rinse-repeat.

As soon as I see 'but the Tank has to herd' then I know we won't play well together anyway, it's just boring, IMO.

I was on a team where the Tank was doing this for some of the larger rooms and I left at the first chance. Was not using a KB character.

 

I get that some portion of the population likes this 'dungeon crawl' experience.

Different players desire very different playstyles and I love that CoH can provide both.

 

Dark/Dark blasters fill another of the playstyle niches and like all combos, _something_ could be tweaked, but IME they are fun/fine as-is.

 

I won't derail any further.

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KB on your account, because you are the one playing that account, may be fantastic, assuming you know how to utilize it to your team's advantage. However, for all those other bad players, who outnumber perceptively the good one, who just love watching mobs fly, despite a Tanks best efforts to round them up, KB is a HORRIBLE thing.

 

What you describe is simply a trolly/inexperienced/young player IMO.

This idea that almost all KBs are somehow out to ruin the fun is just silly from my PoV.

 

Dark mitigates with -toHit, KB does it in a different way.

KB is super fun as a mitigation tool, while watching awesome ragdoll and creating just the sort of chaos some players don't like.

I have sparred for about 18 years now with players over KB, no biggie.

 

IME, people that don't like KB are not fun to play games with, because I like to play, not plod along doing the Tank-herd-wait-here-rinse-repeat.

As soon as I see 'but the Tank has to herd' then I know we won't play well together anyway, it's just boring, IMO.

I was on a team where the Tank was doing this for some of the larger rooms and I left at the first chance. Was not using a KB character.

 

I get that some portion of the population likes this 'dungeon crawl' experience.

Different players desire very different playstyles and I love that CoH can provide both.

 

Dark/Dark blasters fill another of the playstyle niches and like all combos, _something_ could be tweaked, but IME they are fun/fine as-is.

 

I won't derail any further.

 

Hey, I won't take that from you, man. By all means, ay as you wish. Trust me, if I am on a team with no trollers (because KB makes their role difficult if you attack before them) or a Tank (for obvious reasons) then I am down with the KB. But when on a team with similar play style goals, I use KB to help their play style, not ruin it. It comes down to this, are you playing with the team, or against them? In your case, when you see their ay style does not match yours, you leave. And I personally thank you for that. It saves you from being forced to play in a way you don't like, and it saves them from being annoyed by your playstyle that goes against the grain of what they are doing. So hats off to you, Sir.

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I really like Umbral Torrent; it's damage coupled with a quick get out of my face/mitigation over a YUUGE cone. It's by far the strongest regular cone attack in the game, and I would say it's better than AR's Full Auto in several regards. If you have a problem with this awesome power; then you need to learn to play better. For team friendliness slot it with knockback to knockdown IO and you can even throw in a +Recharge proc and never look back. I'm less of a fan about Tenebrous Tentacles, mediocre slow damage is not what a Blaster wants and the immobilization is inferior to KB/KD in terms of mitigation.

 

Ultimately what hurts Dark is two things; lack of strong ST (too many mediocre utility powers), but this is offset a bit by an "instant snipe" build. More serious is the lack of strong AoE: Blasters need to bring good AoE to a team or you will be an inferior choice to any other. Blasters pay a too heavy price in terms of raw power for utility in City of Heroes, especially considering you can IO-build a character in a way rendering much of the added utility redundant.

 

My quick-fix would be to either change Tenebrous Tentacles damage to tick much faster (and balance this out with reduced immobilization duration), or replace Tenebrous Tentacles with Night Fall and give it the range and arc of TT so it will fill a role of a "melee range" secondary cone with less need of positioning, or simply replace it with Dark Obliteration.

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However, I have to disagree with Tankers being second.  Tankers are, in my experience, the absolute single most poorly played AT in the game and always have been.  And that confuses me, because they aren't exactly high skill-cap.  And yet I keep finding Tankers who think they don't need Taunt, and thus have no way to manage aggro.

 

What? Tanks can totally keep the aggro cap without using Taunt. Punchvoke, properly applied, is strong enough unless you're herding or pulling. If you jump in and grab aggro with Punchvoke, you don't need Taunt.

 

And... on the original topic... Dark Blast is not only fine, but great. It's DIFFERENT from other Blaster sets since it doesn't do as much damage in the first few seconds, but there are other sets for people who don't like DoTs. In damage output per second, it's fine in both AoE and in single-target, and its defense and utility are probably the best in the AT. If you dislike the best defensive set in the AT that also happens to be average in damage, then it's not that the set is a problem... it's that you're playing a set that you don't like. That happens, but it's not a reason to change the set.

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Snip

I also know that in end game, by time you set up, most often than not, the mobs are all but gone.

 

 

 

That's why I don't bother setting up with my E/E, He's vet level 15 and pretty much "finished" other than I'd like to bump a couple of his incarnate abilities up a level. He just jumps in and starts blowing the hell out of everything...and if some little scrapper decides to chase a flying boss who's already at 50% health across the map, only to have me snipe said boss dead before it hits the ground...well, I guess scrappy doo should have picked a better target...maybe a minion would have been more his style.

 

Just kidding, I love scrappers too!

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