Focused Feedback: Electrical Blast Revamp

[arcane]

Mez effects squishies less now than ever before. It’s relatively harmless compared to the former status quo. Think we’re good on that.

[Wavicle]

28 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I think the solution is harder to come up with than identification of the problem. Overall I think the issue evolved over a timeline similar to this:

• Way too many throwaway enemies have "nuisance mezz" with high magnitude and chance to proc
• In compensation, melee characters were made nearly immune to these mezzes and simply disregard them
• To help unarmored characters keep up, various methods were added to give them their own less perfect ways to disregard mezz
• Toggle powers on squishies that are meant to be occasionally punished end up at ground zero and obtaining mezz protection becomes the major focus of the build. Every 1 second Sleep on a minion becomes a life threatening emergency (less so for this particular power, but in general) 

 

The true long term solution I think is to backtrack and remove a lot of the throwaway mezz hurled by minions and lieutenant level enemies, so that mezz is a major event. The ITF is a great example of an environment designed this way, and that's partly why that TF is so popular.  

 

Since a full rebalance is unlikely, a good tradeoff would at least be to not make the archetypes who already deal with mezz situation even worse. If making mezz threatening is a goal, we need to be looking at the archetypes who are currently completely disregarding it, not doubling down for the archetypes who are already dealing with it.

unlikely at best

[Kai Moon]

Now that I've chewed on it a while, I'm tentatively planning to respec my defender out of Tesla Cage and into Shocking Bolt instead. He'll still have a solid hold, without the chance of losing Static if I accidentally use it in the wrong situation.

 

Maybe the new Tesla Cage will have a place in some other builds, I dunno.

[Proteus50]

6 hours ago, Wavicle said:

break free, defense, Hold, Teammates. calling it a pointless power just indicates that you haven’t figured out how to handle mez on your toon.

 

Yeah um I've been playing just as long as you have Wavicle. ( and yes I mean from 2004) I know HOW to handle mez... 

 

My point was compared to the Sentinel I could see it as being a pointless power.. ie very skippable.

 

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, Proteus50 said:

 

Yeah um I've been playing just as long as you have Wavicle. ( and yes I mean from 2004) I know HOW to handle mez... 

 

My point was compared to the Sentinel I could see it as being a pointless power.. ie very skippable.

 

 

If you know how to handle mez then I don't see why it would be a pointless power.

[Riot Siren]

So finally got a chance to respec my Ele/Dev(50 IOed, out the teeth, and full incarnate) and tried out the changes for myself, overall it seems like great changes.

 

Shock mechanic: I particularly like the shocked mechanic, regardless of how effective it actually is my little scrapper brain LOVES seeing Big words pop up and more numbers happen. As I am running a  blaster, more damage is always good in my book and getting rewarded for draining a enemies end Bar even if I don't get it the whole way reminds me this set actually has a secondary effect. 10/10

 

Short Circuit changes: I like the idea behind this short circuit change, it really gives me a way to reliably drain someone quickly outside of my nuke. I feel like it needs... something small though to make it feel good. Either a little more damage or a bit faster animation. Either way it's already a full on upgrade over what we had before. 8/10

 

Tesla Cage Changes: I gotta mimic what I have heard alot of other players say about this power feels underwhelming. It's like it's trying to do too many things and does none of them all that well. First things first, the chain mechanic is VERY awkward to use and does not really feel good. Since the initial target takes little damage it's very hard to control where the damage goes. I can try to aim it at a enemy to specifically control the spread but that's still a crap shoot. The jump distance also felt too small, I would throw it at enemies near a group and if it jumped to any enemy slightly outside of the group it stops. Also this takes way too long to build up, maybe it's because I'm not using this with /ele (another problem I have with the changes) but I often found even by the end of a fight I would not be full on static and alot of it would quickly run out before the next group, making this move hard to get out even when I was trying too. Honestly if you are gonna make be build up to this I should feel like I'm really getting something out of this, something I want to do, a slow hold and some damage I can't direct isn't it. I feel like this needs to go back to the drawing board, I'm not even sure why it's focused on AoE the set is fair good at AoE already and could really use a good single target blast and this would be a great contender for a Freeze Ray treatment (maybe not as crazy). I really don't know what this power is supposed to be. My point is if this went to live like this I would 100% be skipping this power. 3/10

 

Voltaic Sentinel Changes: I like the idea of making it a toggle, but I have to echo everyone else, just make it last through holds. I don't even say this because I hate having to cast it again, but it's so easy to forget if it's on or not, since unlike most other powers that detoggle on hold, it has no visual effect on you, sure the pet is visible but when I'm constantly lobbing electricity everywhere it's REALLY easy to not notice when this thing has been turned off. As is right now it just doesn't feel worth the hassle against control heavy enemies.  Even if we don't get it to not detoggle PLEASE stop making me ground target it, it should work like gun drone and just summon infront of you, I just don't see any realistic reason I would want to place it in a specific spot, specially now since it's a toggle. 5/10

 

Charge up: Not much to say about it, I quite like the idea of the "Aim" power enhancing the secondary effect of my powers, makes it feel a bit more impactful, I think the small damage and to-hit trade off is very worth it here. 10/10

 

Overall I really like the changes, I feel like Tesla Cage could really use some more time in the oven, but if this hit live tomorrow I wouldn't be mad. I still feel like it should not directly interact with other sets like /Electical manip now even more so then before and the static generation felt way to slow with moderate use of my secondary. But those two things aside I do like the changes.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Riot Siren

[Sovera]

9 hours ago, Riot Siren said:

Voltaic Sentinel Changes: I like the idea of making it a toggle, but I have to echo everyone else, just make it last through holds. I don't even say this because I hate having to cast it again, but it's so easy to forget if it's on or not, since unlike most other powers that detoggle on hold, it has no visual effect on you, sure the pet is visible but when I'm constantly lobbing electricity everywhere it's REALLY easy to not notice when this thing has been turned off. As is right now it just doesn't feel worth the hassle against control heavy enemies.  Even if we don't get it to not detoggle PLEASE stop making me ground target it, it should work like gun drone and just summon infront of you, I just don't see any realistic reason I would want to place it in a specific spot, specially now since it's a toggle. 5/10

 

This last part can be done via keybind/macros where just clicking the power puts it at your feet, but you're correct it is another bit of hidden info a newbie will not have access to.

 

A bit like the Fault debacle in Stone Melee where it is one of the powers that still requires being on the ground to use, despite another power in the same set -also- is a 'jump and hit the ground' but that one works while using Hover. If the devs do not wish to incorporate the code I'm thinking of the right keybinds to toggle off  Hover, use Fault, then keybind my other attacks to toggle Hover back on.

 

Strictly speaking neither ought to be necessary.

[Riot Siren]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

This last part can be done via keybind/macros where just clicking the power puts it at your feet, but you're correct it is another bit of hidden info a newbie will not have access to.

 

A bit like the Fault debacle in Stone Melee where it is one of the powers that still requires being on the ground to use, despite another power in the same set -also- is a 'jump and hit the ground' but that one works while using Hover. If the devs do not wish to incorporate the code I'm thinking of the right keybinds to toggle off  Hover, use Fault, then keybind my other attacks to toggle Hover back on.

 

Strictly speaking neither ought to be necessary.

Thanks, I was actually gonna mention this but I forgot to, and that was basically the point I wanted to make. I currently can't think of and reason this power should be ground targeted, even if you summon it next to a guy it is just as likely to shoot at someone on the other side of the room. For some powers like shield charge, I can see why it remains ground targeted even though alot of people use a macro, but for this power I can't fathom why you wouldn't want to macro it.

[Booper]

Release Candidate 1 Updates (I am including the Elec Manipulation updates as well):

 

• Tesla Cage

Tesla Cage has been revamped to emit Chain Lightning! Taking this power allows you to build Static Charges with each activation of other electrical blast attacks. As Static builds, you can unleash it with Tesla Cage where electricity will jump off your main target to shock others nearby!

Note: The updated description for Tesla Cage implies Electrical Blast AoE attacks will now also grant Static Charges, however it will only apply one stack no matter how many targets are hit. This impacts Ball Lightning, Short Circuit, and Thunderous Blast.

 

Electricity Manipulation [Focused Feedback: Various Power Changes]

Added the ability to gain +Static on Elec. Manip. AoE attacks (does not stack per target) if Tesla Cage is owned from Electrical Blast:

Force of Thunder

• Grants 1 Static if a target is hit (does not stack)

Thunder Strike

• Grants 1 Static if a target is hit (does not stack)

Power Sink

• Grants 1 Static if a target is hit (does not stack)

[Replacement]

10 hours ago, Booper said:

Power Sink

• Grants 1 Static if a target is hit (does not stack)

I really try to avoid the "if that set, why not include mine?" Mentality. That's your warning I'm about to do that.

 

I don't suppose Sentinel Electric Armor version of Power Sink also received this?

[DarknessEternal]

Ok, giving stacks on attacks that actually get used is progress.  Now can you make those stacks do something meaningful with Tesla Cage so there's a reason to push the button?

[Draeth Darkstar]

22 hours ago, Booper said:

Release Candidate 1 Updates (I am including the Elec Manipulation updates as well):

 

Electricity Manipulation [Focused Feedback: Various Power Changes]

Added the ability to gain +Static on Elec. Manip. AoE attacks (does not stack per target) if Tesla Cage is owned from Electrical Blast:

Force of Thunder

• Grants 1 Static if a target is hit (does not stack)

Thunder Strike

• Grants 1 Static if a target is hit (does not stack)

Power Sink

• Grants 1 Static if a target is hit (does not stack)

 

Could Dynamo get this treatment, too? Maybe on the 1 per 10 sec sort of scheme like proc triggers?

[Replacement]

18 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

Ok, giving stacks on attacks that actually get used is progress.  Now can you make those stacks do something meaningful with Tesla Cage so there's a reason to push the button?

 

It's a reliable hold and your best sap per recharge, even before considering its additional Recovery debuff.

 

This power is great without chains just through synergy with Shock.  

 

From my testing: The chain lightning is basically a damage aura. The major benefit is that it's in addition to boss-locking, at least on the 3 "regular" blast ATs.

 

On Sentinel, the chains are spicy constant aoe, and because the damage doesn't grow with each hop, you don't need to feel any sense of loss for firing early.

 

My only complaint with Chain Lightning is still how it mixes slotting incentive more than any attack I can imagine. I want to slot it for holding and sapping, but that leaves chain damage essentially naked.

[Heatstroke]

Doing a little testing, I was wondering why not have " Charge Up" Build up enough Static when activated to make the Tesla Cage available as an "opener" In the same way that " Build Momentum" works for Titan Weapons, "Combat Readiness" works for Street Justice, and Tidal Forces works for Water Blast. 

 

I think this would be a welcome change and there are powers that work this way already. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Heatstroke

[UnoDuo]

The Voltaic Sentinel does not follow through some doors within missions -

 

EXAMPLE: Penelope Yin Task Force 1st mission - VS does not follow through door into the precinct... toggle off... wait... toggle on... 

 

However, when I take the elevator to the lockup area - it does follow.

 

Very odd...

 

When I leave the mission it drops the toggle.

 

Turn on toggle...

 

Enter next mission door - turns off toggle...

 

Turn on toggle...

 

Clear 1st floor - VS gets stuck on railing around the elevated area in room with 1st Council member... have to backtrack and get myself positioned to where the VS gets free... 

 

Gets stuck on other side of doorway... backtrack... get it unstuck...

 

VS makes it through the elevator  - phew...

 

Finish mission and exit... turns off toggle... 

 

Turn on toggle... rinse... repeat...

 

*** I honestly like the idea of VS being a toggle... but it is REALLY BAD at following and it de-toggles all the time.... I actually click it MORE OFTEN then I did the way it used to be....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by UnoDuo
to add more info

[SuperPlyx]

Yeah I lost VS couple of times in Maria Jenkins defeat Infernal mission. I back tracked to find it, was just sitting there no obstacle that I could see.

[aethereal]

VS has always had trouble keeping up with its caster.  That was perhaps mitigated by needing to be recast every minute.  Since its now supposed to be a perma-pet, could we maybe get it to teleport to its caster if it exceeds some leash distance?  That tech exists, I think?

[Hew]

23 minutes ago, aethereal said:

VS has always had trouble keeping up with its caster.  That was perhaps mitigated by needing to be recast every minute.  Since its now supposed to be a perma-pet, could we maybe get it to teleport to its caster if it exceeds some leash distance?  That tech exists, I think?

toggle cycle it.

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

On 11/24/2021 at 10:52 PM, UnoDuo said:

*** I honestly like the idea of VS being a toggle... but it is REALLY BAD at following and it de-toggles all the time.... I actually click it MORE OFTEN then I did the way it used to be....

 

Agree 100%. It's super meh now. On paper it sounds great, but it detoggles a LOT. The time taken to monitor, refresh it, and the endurance drain could be spent on an attack that has far more impact.

[Razor Cure]

I havent tried the changes yet, but I was just thinking..

Overall, these changes seem totally awesome and cool..BUT..

 

Draining hard targets like EBs and above. Basically everything in game can still attack without End, and the stupid high Endurance pools of AVs and heroes make it pretty hard (depending) to fully flatline them. In a lot of fights with my elec/elec fender, its basically pointless (again, pre changes) to even TRY to drain an AV. If I am in a team, the target will usually be dead before I drain them.

And even if I do...yay? They can still throw out some attacks and it doesnt make them die any faster. I am not 100% sure, but I dont think many AVs even have toggles, that 'could' be dropped by having no end..they just have inherent def and res.

I think it was suggested awhile back, but what about anythnig with no end (or under a %, so it could trigger on an AV before they get a huge, relativfely, tic back) also gets some minor -res/speed/something. Surely having no energy at all should cripple anything way more than simple 'having no energy.'

That said..I cant wait to try the changes out!

[Neogumbercules]

I haven't had a chance to play yet, but in theory I see where they are going with giving Aim the end-mod boost. 

 

The idea is I punch out Aim (whatever now called, I don't remember) and pop Short Circuit (also enhanced for end mod). Short Circuit is faster now, so I should be able to quickly follow up with Ball Lightning (also faster) and Thunderous Blast.

 

If it all works out, I should be shocking the hell out of everyone. I would just like to make sure that the shock scale chance is such that I'm pretty much guaranteed to proc it after a new-aim boosted Short Circuit, otherwise that damage loss and the risk I'm in (being in melee) might not be worth the trouble. 

 

If anything though, I'm really happy to have an active gameplay mechanic to the set. 

 

@Captain Powerhouse

 Two questions for you, 

 

Can scourge and shock proc together? Does shocked deal just the enhanced damage of the power or does it also add in the scourge proc damage as well? 

 

Also is the shocked proc chance calculated based on the targets endurance when I activate the power or will it take into account the drain OF that power? For example, if my target is at 100% endurance and I use Thunderous Blast with it's unresistable -30% endurance, will the shock proc chance be calculated based on the targets 70% endurance remaining, or will be be calculated based on the target's 100% endurance at the time of activation? 

[WindDemon21]

Make it just replace itself every 5 or 10 seconds and have it last 30s. So it still persists if mezzed off. Or you know this, but with what all toggles should do is only suppress when mezzed not toggle off completely.

[Neogumbercules]

OK I've had a chance to play the set and I can say on a corruptor it feels very fun and powerful. I paired it with /Dark/Soul and I felt like I could completely lock down entire spawns. Without having to slot for end-mod at all, I could use power boost + charge up to completely drain a mob and follow it up with a devastating thunderous blast. This was on a completely baby corr with just a slap dash of IO sets, no real build, and no incarnates.

 

Overall, I feel like the set is great, but here are a couple of points:

• I feel like Short Circuit should be even faster. It's basically part of the Charge Up > Buff Power > combo and all I want is to blast it out and be done with it. I'm pulling TONS of aggro standing there, so I really need this power to pop off a lot faster. Lower the damage if you have to, but just let me get this power out ASAP. It's just a set-up ability now so I always wanted it to be faster. Thunderous has a slow activation time, so with that and ball lightning I just had this anxiety that my buff window was gonna close before I could get the powers out.
• Corruptor Voltaic does not start with red colors.
• Tesla Cage seemed like it wasn't doing much for me. I felt like between my other primary powers, my secondary, and my epics/patrons, I always had something better to use. My suggestion is this:
  • Swap Tesla Cage and Short Circuit in the set order.
  • Buff the end-drain of tesla cage, and make it a 16 target Targetted AoE endurance drain ability without a chaining mechanic.
  • Why? Because Short Circuit FORCES elec to be a PBAOE/Melee ranged primary, and the other AoEs in the set are both ranged. Most Defender/Corruptor secondaries are designed to operate from range. Blaster secondaries are usually melee BUT it's dangerous and makes the leveling curve more difficult when your primary is forcing you to stand in the middle of 100 mobs.
  • By swapping the build order and simplifying the mechanics of Tesla Cage you are giving low-level/newer players the ability to engage with the set mechanics early on, safely and easing the learning curve.
  • Moving Short Circuit to later in the build will make it more optional, but will still give it the ability to synergize with specialized builds that thrive up close (these builds might respec out of Tesla Cage).
  • Ball Lightning and Thunderous Blast are ranged sets on ranged ATs and if we're in the process of making the set have synergistic mechanics, short circuit is out of place.
  • Lets not force noobs/lowbies to stand in PBAOE range when only 1 of the ATs with Elec Blast has any reason to be there.
  • The mechanics on Tesla Cage right now are too esoteric and slow to make it a good ranged end-drain setup option. I need to be able to follow up with Ball Lightning/Thunderous Blast immediately. I can't sit there and wait for it to chain around to random enemies.

Anyway, there's my focused feedback.

[Naraka]

So Shocked is like the Mana-burned pitch I put out a while back? I'm pretty sure other posters had similar ideas though.

 

Concerned simply upping the damage might end up screwing balance even more but at least elec blast needed it. If anything, is probably go a tad bit more radical with it and make the set kind of 2-mode style where you have the END efficient mode with decent AoE/ static build and jump procs while you have voltaic sentinel toggled then the "Mana-burned" Shock damage procs mode is when voltaic sentinel is off and your single target blasts are proccing lots of damage, doesn't return END and actually costs you more END in the long run.

 

FYI, haven't logged in to try it out, just commenting on the notes seeming like a big buff without a cost attached.

[Crasical]

2 hours ago, Naraka said:

 

 

FYI, haven't logged in to try it out, just commenting on the notes seeming like a big buff without a cost attached.

 

These changes have been live for almost two months.