SS/Inv-how bad is the Rage Crash?

[wjrasmussen]

On 11/13/2021 at 8:05 PM, JnEricsonx said:

I didn't think of it, and I was more asking for people's personal experiences.

Use it smartly

[PeregrineFalcon]

I have exactly 2 SS characters. A Will/SS Tanker and an SS/Will Brute.

 

On the tank I don't care about the crash and, when I do notice it, I just taunt and Handclap (no damage there to reduce) and use Nemesis Staff. This keeps their attention focused on me for the 10 whole seconds that I can't do damage.

 

On my brute it's really annoying. Which is why I only have 1 SS brute and I certainly will never make an SS scrapper.

 

I don't think that SS needs to be changed, but I do think players should only take it on a tank where the -dam can be ignored.

[Supertanker]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Who runs Rage without stacking it, Snarkums? Once stacking Rage the crash happens once a minute.

 

I find one stack of Rage to be enough, especially with the Gaussian's Build-Up in Invincibility going off all the time. A Rage crash every minute would be super annoying, and I can see why people are complaining if that's what you're doing.

[PeregrineFalcon]

15 minutes ago, Supertanker said:

A Rage crash every minute would be super annoying, and I can see why people are complaining if that's what you're doing.

That's why I believe that the devs should just change Rage to a toggle and be done with it. I've been reading threads about Rage and asking the crash to be removed since 2006.

 

At the very least I wish the devs would come out and say "We're going to do this with Rage."

 

Or at least the moderators should roll all of the Rage threads into one mega thread and add any new thread about Rage to that thread. Keep the rage all confined to just one thread.

 

They should do the same with the knockback threads as well.

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Who runs Rage without stacking it, Snarkums? Once stacking Rage the crash happens once a minute.

Talking about running double stacked rage while asking for no crash is......

 

In my opinion Rage should be made into a toggle, with the End cost divided up into a regular per tick rather than once every two minutes.  1 stack, constant, no crash.

 

I am out of this topic.  

Edited November 15, 2021 by Snarky

[Sovera]

15 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Talking about running double stacked rage while asking for no crash is......

 

In my opinion Rage should be made into a toggle, with the End cost divided up into a regular per tick rather than once every two minutes.  1 stack, constant, no crash.

 

I am out of this topic.  

 

I'm not ASKING for anything, my dude. I don't even HAVE characters with Super Strength. Eesh, calm your (undead) tits. Of course we can't have double stacked Rage (a whooping 180% damage buff) and no downsides. We had dozens and dozens of pages the last time there was an attempt to balance Rage because of this, and, like I said last time, I have no characters with SS other than one I did while testing the combo with FA and I didn't even finish leveling it because the Rage crash became execrable. So I am just a spectator.

 

I, for one, also rally behind the idea of a toggle. Better than a damage buff it should just add a % of damage as extra Smash or something, but %damage is fine too. Just make it a toggle.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, Sovera said:

I, for one, also rally behind the idea of a toggle.

 

And you're not even close to being the only one. Why the everlovinfuck this hasn't happened yet boggles my mind.

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

And you're not even close to being the only one. Why the everlovinfuck this hasn't happened yet boggles my mind.

 

We know. We have 20-30 pages of why. Hot salty tears at Rage not being stacked anymore and trying to nudge the devs into keeping some fashion of 180% damage. The whole set needs a revamp from the ground kinda like Stone Melee has.

[Haijinx]

Double stacked rage is fun, but if they made it not stack like hasten, that would be fine too. 

 

But yeah, Capt PH offered 1 stack no debuff, 2 stack debuff and people still cried.  So it just stayed like it is.

[Erratic1]

20 hours ago, Haijinx said:

As far as risk?  This is the tanker section.  An INV tanker with even a modest IO build is one step removed from a nigh-unkillable god.   The DEF crash is there to scere the brutes.  

 

Well clearly that did not work. I literally had to go to City of Data to confirm there being a Def and Eng hit because on my Brute I never noticed. But this thread has had repeated people going on and on about how they cannot use Rage because it threatens their very existence. Whose scere'd? 😛

[Snarky]

30 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Well clearly that did not work. I literally had to go to City of Data to confirm there being a Def and Eng hit because on my Brute I never noticed. But this thread has had repeated people going on and on about how they cannot use Rage because it threatens their very existence. Whose scere'd? 😛

I started with SS/Invul on Brutes.  Using SOs.  Had not much idea what the Def crash meant for 6 months.  That End crash was annoying though.

[SeraphimKensai]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

Cpt PH offered 1 stack no debuff, 2 stack debuff and people still cried.  So it just stayed like it is.

Personally I thought that was a pretty reasonable proposed change. It allowed you to mitigate the crash if you wanted, but still be able to double stack when you needed.

 

Otherwise I could see it working well if it was a toggle that scaled in effectiveness based on the density of enemies around the player similar to Invincibility or alternatively making a toggle that functions similarly to fury.

 

I think if I was given carte blanche, I'd make it a toggle that functions similarly to fury (albeit easier to scale to full, and maybe only tiers at say 25/50/75/100) and maybe add a chance for bonus smashing damage at 50% rage, while adding a chance for bonus lethal damage at 100% rage for theme.

[Snarky]

21 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Personally I thought that was a pretty reasonable proposed change. It allowed you to mitigate the crash if you wanted, but still be able to double stack when you needed.

 

Otherwise I could see it working well if it was a toggle that scaled in effectiveness based on the density of enemies around the player similar to Invincibility or alternatively making a toggle that functions similarly to fury.

 

I think if I was given carte blanche, I'd make it a toggle that functions similarly to fury (albeit easier to scale to full, and maybe only tiers at say 25/50/75/100) and maybe add a chance for bonus smashing damage at 50% rage, while adding a chance for bonus lethal damage at 100% rage for theme.

This solution is Brute specific

[SeraphimKensai]

Just now, Snarky said:

This solution is Brute specific

How so?

[Erratic1]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

But yeah, Capt PH offered 1 stack no debuff, 2 stack debuff and people still cried.  So it just stayed like it is.

 

1 stack no debuff, 2 stack debuff vs debuff regardless....its a clear gain. Why would anyone complain about that?

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

How so?

It talks of bonus damage at different values of rage, which must refer to fury.  Rage has no fluctuations.  

[Erratic1]

11 minutes ago, Snarky said:

It talks of bonus damage at different values of rage, which must refer to fury.  Rage has no fluctuations.  

 

Ninjitsu backdoors the crit from stealth mechanism of Stalkers to Scrappers. Perhaps backdooring a toned-down version of Fury via Super Strength would not be horrible a horrible thing for Tankers.

 

 

 

[Snarky]

4 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Ninjitsu backdoors the crit from stealth mechanism of Stalkers to Scrappers. Perhaps backdooring a toned-down version of Fury via Super Strength would not be horrible a horrible thing for Tankers.

 

 

 

Maybe.  But since the main roadblock was “we want a toggle” bs “ we want doible with no crash”. Complicating the issue is not advised at this time 😝

[Marshal_General]

They should just get rid of rage altogether. Work its benefits into the attacks and come up with something else to fill its slot.

 

Of all the superheroes in comics with super strength, they pattern it after the one that is a rage monster.

[Verfall]

8 minutes ago, Marshal_General said:

They should just get rid of rage altogether. Work its benefits into the attacks and come up with something else to fill its slot.

 

Of all the superheroes in comics with super strength, they pattern it after the one that is a rage monster.

Which they in turn made into the basis for an entire AT when villains came out.

 

Brute's are what Rage should have been from day one.

 

Screw making it a toggle. Give SS a damage modifier equal to one stack of rage, than make it a smashing version of fiery embrace. Put a small minus resist proc on the first 3 SS attacks to make them special and call it a day. Or anything else. I dunno anymore.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Verfall said:

Give SS a damage modifier equal to one stack of rage, than make it a smashing version of fiery embrace. 

 

If SS just plain comes with a +80% damage bonus, always on, baked in, no effort required....

 

,,,you really think that is going to fly?

[Verfall]

12 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

If SS just plain comes with a +80% damage bonus, always on, baked in, no effort required....

 

,,,you really think that is going to fly?

From what I remember SS is designed to underperform without Rage active. The set is balanced around doing less damage without it. By using it, it brings the set to parity with the rest of the sets. Now I may be wrong about that, but it sticks out in my memory for some reason. So is it an actual 80% boost, or is the boost making it equal to stone melee? Honestly the most powerful part to me isn't the damage, it's the tohit buff.

[Erratic1]

6 hours ago, Verfall said:

From what I remember SS is designed to underperform without Rage active. The set is balanced around doing less damage without it. By using it, it brings the set to parity with the rest of the sets. Now I may be wrong about that, but it sticks out in my memory for some reason. So is it an actual 80% boost, or is the boost making it equal to stone melee? Honestly the most powerful part to me isn't the damage, it's the tohit buff.

 

 

The only Super Strength attack which is brought up to equality by adding 80% damage would be Jab moving up to match Stone Fist. Foot Stomp before Rage outclasses Tremor. For every other attack Super Strength has, adding 80% damage takes it considerably past the matching attack from Stone Melee. Moreover, Rage's damage bonus is not confined to Super Strength attacks, so damaging abilities from one's primary (in the case of Tankers, secondary for Brutes), power pool, and epic/patron sets are boosted--and those abilities were never behind on the Super Strength character because they'd taken Super Strength, is all pure gain.

 

But yeah, the To-Hit is really nice and really shines when you go from whiffing to reliably hitting. It pisses me off to no end when Knockout Blow misses.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Erratic1

[Snarky]

Super Strength is great.  I love it.  I love the old school concept. I have stories to tell about SS toons.  But the rage crash….  I started on SS Brutes.  Played them for years. Prefer 1 stack Rage due to crash mgt.  would love it to be a toggle.  Will not ever play it again until something changes

[ironjoe]

For the first question I feel like Invuln is one of the easier Armor Sets to pair with Super Strength. Invuln has strong resists to help handle the defense crash and others have mentioned ways to wait out or manage the damage crash.

 

As far as the further question this topic always go into...

The crash annoyance level largely depends largely on the experience of the player and how much they like managing the crash. So super annoying for new players or who hate managing the crash down to barely noticeable for some veterans with armor sets that barely impact it. Generally I'm not a fan of crashes in game.

 

While the Powerhouse solution wasn't everything I wanted, I liked it enough to support it. It was at least was better as people pointed out by giving the option to avoid the crash mechanic. If I had everything I wanted, it would most likely look something similar to Fury or Against All Odds. Basically a toggle that increased the damage bonus by number of enemies in range to whatever we wanted it to cap out at with a good average damage bonus somewhere below that.