Mids Builder

[sirjames1982]

I use mids hero designer alot  and thoughts on a moblie app version of it 

[The_Warpact]

You figure cross posting would get you more responses? Or just didn't want to wait since you posted in the Mids section about 30 minutes ago?

[A Cat]

It would negatively affect my productivity at work. 

[Shenanigunner]

Oh, look, even tinier icons and text. Definitely what MIDS needs.

[Without_Pause]

37 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

Oh, look, even tinier icons and text. Definitely what MIDS needs.

I prefer not thinking about how terrible the IU experience would be for it on a phone. I do yearn for a web version of it. As a software developer, I get confused by the need for desktop applications these days. 

[BurtHutt]

So, off on a tangent here, about a hero builder. I never game much and CoX is one of my go to games. I played on Live. What really befuddled me was that the original Devs never gave you a builder (or did they?). Didn't players make MIDS and players explain softcapping D and RES and so on. I am sure the game company must've put this info out somewhere but I obtained the relevant info from players.

 

It seems very odd to me that a game is put out and they don't include a hero builder etc. I also just learned about procs (same system in Live?) and how they can up damage. Well, maybe it was last year. Anyway, it seems odd that, unless you dig on forums or hear from players, you won't really know about these things (and many other things). This isn't meant to be a gripe but more of a discussion.

[PeregrineFalcon]

44 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

As a software developer, I get confused by the need for desktop applications these days. 

The nice thing about deck top applications:

1. Sometimes the internet is out.
2. I don't have to accept ridiculous updates if I don't want to.
3. I can run the application whenever I want to, even 20 years after the company has folded and the application is no longer for sale.
4. I'm not at the mercy of someone else and their website. I don't have to worry about them "sunsetting" my application.

[Shenanigunner]

All that. The idea that no one needs anything but a dumb terminal is... a bit "but this is this week!"

 

I've done a little software development and worked more in hw/sw integration companies (about 40 years' worth). The idea that only the current model is relevant is... exasperating. You kids.

[Shenanigunner]

1 hour ago, BurtHutt said:

So, off on a tangent here, about a hero builder. I never game much and CoX is one of my go to games. I played on Live. What really befuddled me was that the original Devs never gave you a builder (or did they?).

 

For good, bad and indifferent, Statesman believed in and maintained an "organic" game model. It wasn't about number-crunched, optimized max builds. You had to level, and choose, and learn, and respec and "grow" into a 40 50. I know JE is in some disrepute these days, but mostly by players who can only seem to engage a game at that "max or nothin'!" mindset.

 

I think releasing the numbers, and all the uber-power-add-ons, and things like choosing powers because they're fabbo IO-set mules... is a net negative. Maybe a builder is somewhere in between, but it completely tramples the  organic learn-and-grow aspect that was integral to the original game.

 

Put another way, it wasn't about Winning. It was about Playing. And now we have a significant player base that is completely exasperated and annoyed at anything that gets in the way of a maxed end build "so they can play the real game."

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

Oh, look, even tinier icons and text. Definitely what MIDS needs.

You've always wanted to use the font Flyspeck 3 in an application, haven't you?    😉

[arcane]

I can’t get Mids at all, I have no

sympathy for you people and your build privilege 🙂

[The_Warpact]

5 minutes ago, arcane said:

I can’t get Mids at all, I have no

sympathy for you people and your build privilege 🙂

C'mon you never played D&D? You can figure a build out on pen and paper, a calculator, and some time.

[arcane]

38 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

C'mon you never played D&D? You can figure a build out on pen and paper, a calculator, and some time.

I use Excel, yeah. Just can’t use Mids. Takes longer to pull the raw data I need off CoD but my system works.

[The_Warpact]

Just now, arcane said:

I use Excel, yeah. Just can’t use Mids. Takes longer to pull the raw data I need off CoD but my system works.

Well then its not all bleak and shit. You're just using a classic can opener and the rest of us are using a electric can opener. 

[BurtHutt]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

For good, bad and indifferent, Statesman believed in and maintained an "organic" game model. It wasn't about number-crunched, optimized max builds. You had to level, and choose, and learn, and respec and "grow" into a 40 50. I know JE is in some disrepute these days, but mostly by players who can only seem to engage a game at that "max or nothin'!" mindset.

 

I think releasing the numbers, and all the uber-power-add-ons, and things like choosing powers because they're fabbo IO-set mules... is a net negative. Maybe a builder is somewhere in between, but it completely tramples the  organic learn-and-grow aspect that was integral to the original game.

 

Put another way, it wasn't about Winning. It was about Playing. And now we have a significant player base that is completely exasperated and annoyed at anything that gets in the way of a maxed end build "so they can play the real game."

 

 

 

Interesting take. I completely disagree with it but that's just me. If I am investing time in a game (which can be significant for some) then I want to know as much info as possible and then make an informed decision. In general, I want to know as much as I can about the subject if I am spending time on it.

 

No, I am not a min/max type. I understand how to build a toon but I don't always want to make a high end build cuz that means grinding for resources to fund my super build. I just think players should be provided the info and then they can choose how they want to play. I've made super builds and then I've also just gone with the flow and not worried a lot about the build.

 

Also, it's not about min/maxing all the time. Changing up the builds can change the play experience. One AT and powerset can be made very differently - one build can have more recharge, another can have more damage or another version can better on DEF/RES and so on.... 

 

Maybe it's because I am not huge into games but this always struck me as very odd. 

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

All that. The idea that no one needs anything but a dumb terminal is... a bit "but this is this week!"

 

I've done a little software development and worked more in hw/sw integration companies (about 40 years' worth). The idea that only the current model is relevant is... exasperating. You kids.

I remember making a desktop application for one of the Big 3 car makers a few years ago. During the demo, the first question asked was when it was going to be made into an online app. I'm not saying we can't have a desktop application. My job is to literally support desktop applications along with websites. I'm just surprised in this day and age a web version hasn't been made as that should be the one made first. If I'm HC, this is one feature I would be adding to the site. If people need an offline version, it isn't THAT difficult to make. If you do it open source, people could have copies on their computers already.

 

(is old enough to work with Cobol)

[Shenanigunner]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

C'mon you never played D&D? You can figure a build out on pen and paper, a calculator, and some time.

 

I think it was Cecil Adams who described D&D as the combining the thrill of reading the dictionary with the fun of double-entry bookkeeping.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Shenanigunner said:

I think it was Cecil Adams who described D&D as the combining the thrill of reading the dictionary with the fun of double-entry bookkeeping.

Isn't that the PnP Champions RPG?

[Doomguide2005]

22 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

C'mon you never played D&D? You can figure a build out on pen and paper, a calculator, and some time.

I love playing around in Mids.

I also did my main via PnP a dozen times or more before Mids came along.

My computer died a while back, only internet I have is this phone.  So the last build I did was the 'old fashioned' way for someone looking to update their Earth/Empathy build.   No calculator required ... just circles with numbers for slots and levels after power choices.  So the mechanical can opener worked fine while my own private natural disaster killed the electric one.  On the otherhand I'd hate to do the same for 2 power sets I've never played as compared to 2 I've done a lot including that specific pairing.

 

So yes I'll take a phone app version of Mids.  I can always make the type font larger.

[Twisted Toon]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:06 PM, srmalloy said:

Isn't that the PnP Champions RPG?

I think the PnP Champions RPG (v. 1) was more akin to doing a fortune 500 company's itemized tax return.

[Apparition]

1 hour ago, Twisted Toon said:

I think the PnP Champions RPG (v. 1) was more akin to doing a fortune 500 company's itemized tax return.

 

 

 

[Ukase]

On 12/3/2021 at 1:37 PM, BurtHutt said:

So, off on a tangent here, about a hero builder. I never game much and CoX is one of my go to games. I played on Live. What really befuddled me was that the original Devs never gave you a builder (or did they?). Didn't players make MIDS and players explain softcapping D and RES and so on. I am sure the game company must've put this info out somewhere but I obtained the relevant info from players.

 

It seems very odd to me that a game is put out and they don't include a hero builder etc. I also just learned about procs (same system in Live?) and how they can up damage. Well, maybe it was last year. Anyway, it seems odd that, unless you dig on forums or hear from players, you won't really know about these things (and many other things). This isn't meant to be a gripe but more of a discussion.

CoH is the only online game I've ever played...outside of Chess. So, I don't have a frame of reference to expect such things from the game. 
There's a ton of things that most players will never learn about this game if they don't come to the forums. I was literally told by an SG member "Most people don't have time to go to the forums!" In context, they were a bit frustrated, as from the forums - I learned about vidiot maps, and the subsequent updates, the popmenu BadgeSetList, and Mids. The tutorial certainly doesn't cover any of those things. 

There are a few badges my characters get organically - not by hunting them. The HC devs have recently introduced the Exploration "tips" that reveal the locations of these. Unfortunately, you'd have to do an awful lot of street sweeping to catch all the tips. Makes me wonder if someone is actually doing just that to get all the explores in a zone. Still, it's certainly a step in the right direction, a fun way of introducing things to the player base that may not re-visit the forums after they make an account. 

But you raise an interesting thought - why not incorporate some "tribal knowledge" about the game into the game, along the lines of the invention tutorial? 

 

[ForeverLaxx]

4 hours ago, Ukase said:

why not incorporate some "tribal knowledge" about the game into the game

Because in nearly 100% of these cases, the "outside information" is from 3rd Party Sources/Programs that the devs generally have no control over. Not to mention that Mids went on hiatus for awhile (we're talking months), was "replaced" by Pines (which then also went defunct for awhile), before getting picked up by an entirely new group and began updating again under a new combined effort as Mids Reborn. How would you feel if the development team was telling you to go outside the game to get detailed information and craft a build with a program that is 6 months out of date? Even now that it's current, Mids still has quirks that mislead or even lie to you with regard to the numbers in-app when compared to in-game. Would the devs want to be pointing players to potentially inaccurate "helper" programs when those same programs aren't 100% reliable?

 

At best, you could get a Loading Screen Tip pointing out the existence of the forums as a player knowledgebase resource and leave it at that. The in-game explore badges were probably never meant to be anything more than neat rewards for running around the zone and, you know, exploring, but when rewards were tied to them (ie: the Zone Teleporter), putting in a way to find them without relying on add-ons or mods became something worth including. So they did. If you notice, most MMOs, while acknowledging the existence and usefulness of some mods, will very rarely endorse or advise their players to go download and install them.

 

With the explore badges example, you'll see that rather than tell players to "just download Vidiot Maps" they instead put an in-game method to be directed towards explore badges. The game isn't really set up to do the same for things like Mids or the various Sound File Replacement applications. I'm not sure what you mean by "subsequent updates" but there's usually a popup upon first login after a patch that either details what's changed, or has a link to the patch notes itself. If they're ignoring the popup, that's on them.

[Bionic_Flea]

How about Ukase University's Master Class? 

 

 

[arcane]

On 12/3/2021 at 3:47 PM, The_Warpact said:

Well then its not all bleak and shit. You're just using a classic can opener and the rest of us are using a electric can opener. 

Feels more like I’m using a pair of scissors vs your lawn mower but sure 🙂