Why is Infiltration The Stepchild?

[Aurora_Girl]

Hover and Flight. 

Combat Jumping and Super Jump. 

Combat Teleport and Teleport. 

Hasten and Super Speed. 

Stealth and Infiltration. 

 

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just isn't the same...

 

Why? Why are Infiltration and Stealth not allowed simultaneously? Is this a WAI situation? If so, why? Infiltration can be slotted with sets, but if it can't be simultaneous, folks will just use unslottable Ninja/Athletic/Beast Run. 

 

Suggestion: make the "travel powers with 'minor versions'" sets consistent and allow Stealth and Infiltration to be toggled on concurrently. 

[Shenanigunner]

It took me a while to sort out the changes to stealth. I find "Stealth now equals Invisibility" and "Infiltration a hodgepodge of lesser stealth and travel powers" to be... somewhere between confusing and obnoxious. I dropped former-Invis-now-Infil for Stealth on all my alts, regardless of the minor bonuses of Infiltration; it makes caves as impossible as when Superspeed is on, for one thing.

 

Concealment should be concealment... not a travel power.

 

And I won't comment on choosing powers to be set mules except to not-say 😜.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[Luminara]

Leave my sneaky zoomy boing-boing alone.

[Troo]

If they wanted to add a travel power like "improved ninja run" to the concealment pool, they could have just done that.

 

Much of the rework of travel powers lost something. (don't get me wrong parts are great)

 

[Lazarillo]

I honestly like Infiltration a lot and would rather it mostly stay as-is.  That said, the toggle being mutually exclusive with other Stealth-granting powers is, while reasonable, also pretty annoying on a travel power since it detoggles other stuff that might considerably more...build critical.  I wonder if there would be a way to suppress just the stealth part while other similar powers (Mask Presence, Arctic Fog, et al) are in place.

[...]

The exclusivity of stealth and infiltration is super annoying. Enough so that I can't bring myself to use it; I want to run fast to the next mob but not have to turn stealth back on for the defense buff before engaging. 

 

An "only the best stealth applies" type of thing would be better. But let this not apply to celerity et al.

[Alchemystic]

In hindsight it may have been better to give stealth the movement bonuses and just leave it at that.

[Marshal_General]

I have done some messing around in mids wirth infiltration and if you have the slots to spare to stick a +stealth IO and a Microfilament HO in it you can get stealth better than stealth, run speed near super speed along with everything else it does. I plan on seeing how it works on test.

[kiramon]

Cuz it lets you get LOTG in a travel power ^________________^

[Outrider_01]

5 hours ago, kiramon said:

Cuz it lets you get LOTG in a travel power ^________________^

and evasive maneuvers in flight, been my go to travel power for almost 6 toons, hover 1 slot, flight 3 or 4 (max speed), and evasive with 1 LOTG or sometimes a second with endue reduc, its a little heavy running 3 flight toggled.

[kiramon]

3 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

and evasive maneuvers in flight, been my go to travel power for almost 6 toons, hover 1 slot, flight 3 or 4 (max speed), and evasive with 1 LOTG or sometimes a second with endue reduc, its a little heavy running 3 flight toggled.

 

Okay, I can clarify

Cuz it lets you get LOTG in a travel power with no other point investment required in the pool PLUS the option to get 3 LOTG from one PP choice  ^________________^

[Outrider_01]

26 minutes ago, kiramon said:

 

Okay, I can clarify

Cuz it lets you get LOTG in a travel power with no other point investment required in the pool PLUS the option to get 3 LOTG from one PP choice  ^________________^

ok, my worthless opinion, 1 useless power with stealth unless you like to toggle it and you are probably never going to use the stealth power on others.  Think I have seen it used twice even since live. Not going to plug and hype flight, but that vertical height helps with melee attacks and avoid getting bashed by a freakshow with hammer hands.

[Zepp]

On 12/12/2021 at 2:31 AM, Shenanigunner said:

It took me a while to sort out the changes to stealth. I find "Stealth now equals Invisibility" and "Infiltration a hodgepodge of lesser stealth and travel powers" to be... somewhere between confusing and obnoxious. I dropped former-Invis-now-Infil for Stealth on all my alts, regardless of the minor bonuses of Infiltration; it makes caves as impossible as when Superspeed is on, for one thing.

 

Concealment should be concealment... not a travel power.

 

And I won't comment on choosing powers to be set mules except to not-say 😜.

Wait, you don't use Superspeed in caves? Damn, you're missing out.

As for infiltration:

It should be allowed to be on with Stealth (like Superspeed, which has the same stealth bonus as Infiltration)

It would be preferable to be immune to travel suppression (like Evasive Maneuvers) as that would make it valuable despite having a lower cap than SS & SJ.

The defense bonus should only be partially suppressed during combat, as is it is basically useless.

[BrandX]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:31 AM, Shenanigunner said:

It took me a while to sort out the changes to stealth. I find "Stealth now equals Invisibility" and "Infiltration a hodgepodge of lesser stealth and travel powers" to be... somewhere between confusing and obnoxious. I dropped former-Invis-now-Infil for Stealth on all my alts, regardless of the minor bonuses of Infiltration; it makes caves as impossible as when Superspeed is on, for one thing.

 

Concealment should be concealment... not a travel power.

 

And I won't comment on choosing powers to be set mules except to not-say 😜.

 

Everything you could slot before, you can slot now plus more.  So as a set mule, nothing changed.

 

Personally, I think the set is better.  Invisibility at first pick.  Set.  Not just stealth.

[Teirusu2]

Personally, I still think they should have done what I suggested in the original feedback thread:  Make just the stealth part of Infiltration a pop-up tray power.

 

This would:

 

1.)  Be a better match to the new design of the other travel powers.

2.)  Give people an option of a Ninja/Athletic run replacement that's just better and slottable.  Just ignore the pop-up tray power.  Good for Tanks and Brutes whom might not want a stealth power at all.

3.)  Allow you to now stack Stealth the power on top of Infiltration.  Again, you can just ignore the pop-up tray power.

4.)  For those whom like the stealth in Infiltration and don't want to pickup Stealth the power, they could still have it and still have it stack on top of the IO +stealth enhancements.

5.)  The DEF in Infiltration could still remain in the main power, only thing that needs to change is the text in the power description.  Being naturally more athletic can easily make you harder to hit outside of combat.

 

The only disadvantage I see with this setup would be having to deal with the pop-up tray power that grants the stealth.  Which doesn't sound like a big deal to me since all the other travel powers have one.

 

[Shenanigunner]

3 hours ago, Zepp said:

Wait, you don't use Superspeed in caves? Damn, you're missing out.

 

On what, concussions?

 

It varies with the cave. Some are just endless bus-stop traps at speed.

[Zepp]

3 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

On what, concussions?

 

It varies with the cave. Some are just endless bus-stop traps at speed.

At first I felt the same way (and when they upped the speed cap too), but now that I'm used to it, I can take any cave at speed and it feels really Speedstery to go through those caverns.

[Aurora_Girl]

20 hours ago, Krimson said:

Don't care. I can mule LOTG with it. 

 

Taking powers you don't intend to use is stupid. 

[Glacier Peak]

27 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Taking powers you don't intend to use is stupid. 

That's probably just a short sighted response meant for another poster (likely who you quoted), but I'll take a swing at this anyways.

 

Gameplay in this game is constrained by a few systems which players can't force or overcome. Think hard caps, physical objects, and the mighty Null the Gull. Outside of those types of limits, an individual's play style is largely unconstrained by anything except for their own self imposed limitations. 

 

Whether a decision is stupid, genius, or fun - outside of the box that is displaying the pixels to the audience, nobody cares whether a player picks a power or makes a costume, or runs through every story arc again, or collects ever badge. 

 

The game is playable years after its legacy conclusion. Try to enjoy it while you can and chill a little. 

[Luminara]

29 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Taking powers you don't intend to use is stupid. 

 

Any build can be pared down to a minimum of powers necessary to perform its expected tasks.  Simply leveling up is one of the things which promotes this, as we gain access to and slots for more advanced powers and eschew the use of earlier powers.  Consequently, most builds have an excess of powers, powers we don't use, powers we don't want, powers we don't need, and even powers we're forced to take and can't respec away.  At least having the choice to replace some of those powers with mules gives us some appreciable utility out of our excess.

[kelika2]

On characters where I have two or three spare slots, infiltration is great

+1 slot sprint

+1 or 2 slots infiltration

Universal travel powers to enhance jump+jump control+run.

 

Does not sound like much but I can hurdle a train station on most Infiltrators, and those characters with Quickness or a variant of it are max 92mph.  Slap on a jetpack and bam, infinity jump for 30 seconds with infiltration giving it jump control

 

If by step-child you mean hybrid that can use some work (with slots) then yeah.  its right where it needs to be

[Bill Z Bubba]

A power used specifically for the set bonuses it can provide is in no way stupid.

[Aurora_Girl]

11 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

A power used specifically for the set bonuses it can provide is in no way stupid.

 

Not what I said and you know it you curmudgeon. 🤨

 

Choosing a power and then *immediately* removing it from your tray, intentionally, simply because you want to slot something in it is stupid. The *player* is not stupid, the system that forces that type of build choice in order to achieve a goal is. 

 

Every single time I take Boxing, I cringe. Every time. 

[SeraphimKensai]

Maybe I'm a bit of an outlier but if I had my way I wouldn't of made infiltration. I would of left travel powers to the traditional travel powers pools and 1 for each of the origin pools (I'd finish gadgetry and utility belt as well), but for concealment....hmmm:

• I'd have combined stealth and Invis as the HC staff has done, that seems logical.
• Grant Invis, although it's underused, I'd leave alone.
• Instead of Infiltration, I'd have Smoke Screen, a new PBAoE click with a 90 second base recharge that causes mobs around the player to suffer -perception/-tohit (like smoke grenade/smoke), with a minor self Def(All) buff(2.5%). Duration: 15 seconds. This would allow people to still slot it as an LoTG mule, but also slot tohitdebuff and accurate tohitdebuff.
• Misdirection, I'd leave as is.
• Phase Shift, I'd leave as is, maybe reduce the end cost since there's already the timer and lockout, but then again I haven't really used the power since we used to run it Perma.

I figure dropping a smoke screen to obscure one's location and get the drop on an enemy combatant seems more fitting the theme of the concealment power pool.

 

[aethereal]

Since this is totally academic and there's no way they'll revisit it, I'll just vote for Smoke Bomb being:

 

PBAoE -to-hit/-perception

Self-teleport (short range) (the PBAoE is at your initial position, not your final one) and +def

 

For your classic ninja vanish move.