Puzzled...why?

[Coyotedancer]

I still like the "Master of"/"Grand Master of" idea. Preserve the original settings and badge while adding the new ones as sort of the Next Level. 

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, iBot said:

As a general rule, whenever I see someone mention the mysterious "They" I immediately substitute "I" and the argument suddenly makes sense. 

I appreciate the perspective. 

I think, in a nutshell, I'll just have to trust "them", even though I don't fully appreciate the outcome at this instant in time. I hope my position will change for my own future enjoyment and that I read more, see more, play more, learn more and will "get" what they are after. 

You raise a solid point about "reading through the public posts". There's a ton on these forums I haven't even looked at, some I've only glanced at. I've skipped past anything costume or rp related, as neither of those are my cup of tea - though I think I'd be good at RP. My problem is I'm such an egotistical jerk, I don't want to share the stage with other RPers! 
I should probably read more and type less, at least for now. 

[Songseven]

judging from the page long DM you sent me few weeks back and sentiment of this thread,

 

you are upset that you're unable to use p2w and incarnates as replacement for team-mates for your solo Mo* badges.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

I will never understand the logic of not raising the mobs or missions difficulty, let's just nerf the players.

One example I would make is Endurance management, I know I'm not alone in using Incarnates for end issues.....but like others have said "then don't do it"...well, ok, I won't.

 

This is the fun one to me. Build a character like my dark/stone tank that drinks end like there's no tomorrow, hit 50 and grab cardiac, YAY! OMFGBIH this is soooo much better!

 

And then they get turned off. Oh... guess I can't use this character for any master runs ever. Granted, already couldn't use them for anything below 45 either but still... make a character for end game content only to be blocked from that content... kinda sucks ass.

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Songseven said:

judging from the page long DM you sent me few weeks back and sentiment of this thread,

 

you are upset that you're unable to use p2w and incarnates as replacement for team-mates for your solo Mo* badges.

 

Why shouldn't they be upset? Having something you enjoy doing ripped out from under you is usually annoying and aggravating.

[Songseven]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Why shouldn't they be upset? Having something you enjoy doing ripped out from under you is usually annoying and aggravating.

 

 

a little dramatic...

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Songseven said:

a little dramatic...

 

Nah, just human nature. I was annoyed when my favorite thing to do in game was changed and became less fun so I no longer do it. I'll happily run ITFs with my SG but my soloing it at max diff days are done.

[Songseven]

5 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

make a character for end game content only to be blocked from that content

 

 

i wouldn't consider Mo* as end game content, more of an achievement...

 

 

one you can't complete with incarnates or temps

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Songseven said:

i wouldn't consider Mo* as end game content, more of an achievement...

 

 

one you can't complete with incarnates or temps

 

That's true now. It wasn't before the change, obviously.

[Songseven]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

That's true now. It wasn't before the change, obviously.

 

 

but it was before incarnates were even a thing,

 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Songseven said:

but it was before incarnates were even a thing,

 

True statement. But has nothing to do with the OP's valid reaction to their fun being pissed on by a change made by the current devs.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Don't get me wrong here... beyond helping my SG-mates get badges, I give absolutely zero fucks about them and will never care how they're changed here. But poopooing on someone's reaction to a change that negatively affects them is uncalled for.

[Mister Mass]

In general, I don't like the idea of changing badge requirements to make them harder.  But I have played this game long enough that I remember earning the Master of badges before Incarnates were available & eventually ubiquitous.  (I'm reasonably sure that the OP was playing back then as well.)  I recall when Master of Statesman was hard - & I recall failing several attempts at it before I joined a run with a really great team that finally got it done.  My character wore that badge with pride for a long time.

 

And here on Homecoming, I recall getting the Master of Ms. Liberty in a cakewalk as a few Incarnates on the team (including my own) made the challenge almost trivial.  So I get the idea that the new setting requirements for Master runs are intended to bring back the challenge & sense of accomplishment of the original.

 

But I second the suggestion of those earlier in this thread that the best solution is to make Grandmaster of badges.  I don't think many people could justifiably complain that a new badge has significantly more difficult requirements than an existing badge, as opposed to those who might complain that the requirements for an existing badge have been changed.

 

That is my opinion, for what it is worth.

[Songseven]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

But poopooing on someone's reaction to a change that negatively affects them is uncalled for.

 

 

just clarifying what my interpretation was,

 

no need to be so sensitive.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 minutes ago, Songseven said:

just clarifying what my interpretation was,

 

no need to be so sensitive.

 

No need for the insult either.

[macskull]

32 minutes ago, Songseven said:

judging from the page long DM you sent me few weeks back and sentiment of this thread,

 

you are upset that you're unable to use p2w and incarnates as replacement for team-mates for your solo Mo* badges.

I have no horse in this race because I don't go out of my way to get badges unless they're required for accolades. That being said, if someone is capable of building a character and playing it well enough to do a solo Mo* run, what's the problem? Greater difficulty should come through harder content, not mandatory nerfing of players. It's all well and good to add new badges with increased challenge levels but I've never been a fan of making existing badges harder to get since it goes against the trend that's been established during the game's post-shutdown development.

[Songseven]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

No need for the insult either.

 

what insult...?

[Songseven]

6 minutes ago, macskull said:

I have no horse in this race because I don't go out of my way to get badges unless they're required for accolades. That being said, if someone is capable of building a character and playing it well enough to do a solo Mo* run, what's the problem? Greater difficulty should come through harder content, not mandatory nerfing of players. It's all well and good to add new badges with increased challenge levels but I've never been a fan of making existing badges harder to get since it goes against the trend that's been established during the game's post-shutdown development.

 

 

sure, and can they still not do this?

 

 

just without incarnates and p2w/temps.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Songseven said:

what insult...?

 

Think about it long enough and you might figure it out. I'm not allowed to respond correctly due to the forum mods.

[macskull]

11 minutes ago, Songseven said:

sure, and can they still not do this?

Requoting myself in case you missed it the first time:

18 minutes ago, macskull said:

Greater difficulty should come through harder content, not mandatory nerfing of players

In addition to this, there is now a subset of characters/builds which would have previously been capable of completing these challenges solo and are now unable. I take specific issue with the disabling of incarnate powers here. The P2W/temp power disabling is kind of whatever, temp powers haven't been allowed on Mo* runs since the beginning of Mo* badges and the temp powers which did still work should not have.

Edited December 16, 2021 by macskull

[Faultline]

Be aware that some of the posts here are talking about two different things, and so will never understand each other without clarification:

1. The challenge itself, isolated from the badge. It still exists, anybody can still select "no deaths, no temps" and play it exactly the same as before. There wasn't any "mandatory nerfing" of the challenge itself, if you built a character to solo the MLTF with no deaths and no temps, you can still do that just fine. It just doesn't have the catchy "Master" name attached anymore.
2. The badge requirements, which are attached to a challenge that is more difficult than the one it had in the last 2.5 years. With the main reason behind it is that two different characters with the Master badge don't compare apples-to-apples anymore.

For the most part, everybody's talking about (2), even if they say they are talking about (1), because (1) hasn't changed. If you reply to posts assuming they're talking about (1), chances are you will be confused by the response because it's really about (2).

[Apparition]

IMO, if possible, the Alpha Incarnate should have been allowed for Master challenges as players spent the last two and a half years incorporating the Alpha as part and parcel of a level 50 build.  It’s as important as several enhancement slots and character builds at level 50 would be different without it.  Mine anyhoo.  C’est la vie though. 🙂

[Songseven]

55 minutes ago, macskull said:

Requoting myself in case you missed it the first time:

In addition to this, there is now a subset of characters/builds which would have previously been capable of completing these challenges solo and are now unable. I take specific issue with the disabling of incarnate powers here. The P2W/temp power disabling is kind of whatever, temp powers haven't been allowed on Mo* runs since the beginning of Mo* badges and the temp powers which did still work should not have.

 

i think you're a little confused,

 

 

the harder content is still there, with the use of the things you stated.

[Songseven]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Think about it long enough and you might figure it out. I'm not allowed to respond correctly due to the forum mods.

 

 

 

huh?

 

 

 

 

[macskull]

19 minutes ago, Songseven said:

 

i think you're a little confused,

 

 

the harder content is still there, with the use of the things you stated.

Doesn't seem like I'm the one confused here.