An idea for Energy blast

[The Volt]

My idea is this: replace Power Push with a power like Dual Pistols' Swap Ammo.

 

You would be able to swap between 3 different energy types: Concussive, Plasmatic, and Kinetic.

 

Concussive would increase the knockback magnitude of all your attacks, Power Burst would have a 100% chance to make up for the removal of Power Push.

 

Plasmatic would remove knockback and add a small DoT of Fire type damage.

 

Kinetic would change the knockback to knockdown and now does a small -dmg debuff.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I actually like this suggestion. Quite a bit really.

 

Here's some thoughts that might stop it from happening.

Cottage rule.

Some folks like power push but moving the 100% KB to Burst might work to alleviate their concern. I would very much also prefer push's animation over burst's but whatever on that front.

Edit: Well, wait... I'm not sure that a toggle can disable an effect like KB that's coded into a power. The KB->KD procs aren't removing KB, they're just adding a huge negative amount.

 

However, just as a staff/bio scrapper ends up with 6 form toggles to choose from, that won't be a reason to block this. I would absolutely roll up an nrg/bio sent and run Plasmatic 100% of the time. Kinda sucks for defenders as they wouldn't get it until 28.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Parabola]

Yeah I'd play this.

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Edit: Well, wait... I'm not sure that a toggle can disable an effect like KB that's coded into a power. The KB->KD procs aren't removing KB, they're just adding a huge negative amount.

 

The way it would work is that there would be three different effects coded onto each power (kb, kd, and dot), and they would be made conditional on having an effect that the appropriate toggle gives.  It's technically quite doable as the OP describes it.

 

Edit: So that is too say, the toggle itself doesn't do anything.  For example, if you had the kd toggle going and you used a kb power that wasn't part of energy blast, the "kd toggle" wouldn't convert it to kd.  This is how these kind of stance toggles work in dual pistols, bio, and staff.

Edited January 2, 2022 by aethereal

[Bill Z Bubba]

45 minutes ago, aethereal said:

 

The way it would work is that there would be three different effects coded onto each power (kb, kd, and dot), and they would be made conditional on having an effect that the appropriate toggle gives.  It's technically quite doable as the OP describes it.

 

Edit: So that is too say, the toggle itself doesn't do anything.  For example, if you had the kd toggle going and you used a kb power that wasn't part of energy blast, the "kd toggle" wouldn't convert it to kd.  This is how these kind of stance toggles work in dual pistols, bio, and staff.

 

The problem with that though is that you don't get the toggles at lvl 1 and folks will raise bloody hell about losing the KB for X number of lvls.

[aethereal]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

The problem with that though is that you don't get the toggles at lvl 1 and folks will raise bloody hell about losing the KB for X number of lvls.

 

You could do it like DP, where there's a default effect (KB) when no toggles are on, then you get a power that lets you turn on toggles to override it with other effects (KD or DoT).

 

You could also just grant all three toggles "for free" at level 1 instead of replacing Power Push -- we have that technology, though there's no precedent for it.

[The Volt]

I was thinking the powers would get rearranged, like how Energy Melee's were when Power Crash was introduced. Personally I'd have it in-between Energy Torrent and Power Burst.

[arcane]

Congrats, you’ve managed to come up with a crafty disguise for a knockback thread 🙂

[aethereal]

5 minutes ago, arcane said:

Congrats, you’ve managed to come up with a crafty disguise for a knockback thread 🙂

I think the nice thing about this idea is that it preserves KB for people who want it, even preserves it situationally for people who, say, want it when solo but not in groups, while "solving" Energy Blast for those who currently avoid it due to KB.

[arcane]

Not that I would want it implemented overall, but I think you’d at least have to trade Aim like DP has to.

[Solarverse]

6 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I actually like this suggestion. Quite a bit really.

 

Here's some thoughts that might stop it from happening.

Cottage rule.

Some folks like power push but moving the 100% KB to Burst might work to alleviate their concern. I would very much also prefer push's animation over burst's but whatever on that front.

Edit: Well, wait... I'm not sure that a toggle can disable an effect like KB that's coded into a power. The KB->KD procs aren't removing KB, they're just adding a huge negative amount.

 

However, just as a staff/bio scrapper ends up with 6 form toggles to choose from, that won't be a reason to block this. I would absolutely roll up an nrg/bio sent and run Plasmatic 100% of the time. Kinda sucks for defenders as they wouldn't get it until 28.

 

Was going to say, people like their animations and the way a power looks too, I can see some folks not liking this idea because they will lose out on the animation/FX. I wouldn't be one of them because I never take the power, but I am sure there are people who use it. Otherwise, I love the idea.

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Not that I would want it implemented overall, but I think you’d at least have to trade Aim like DP has to.

 

I'm not sure that I want this idea implemented, but let me advocate for its virtues.

 

I think it's crucial to understand that this is an idea that's about Energy Blast, and not about "all knockback powers."  There are plenty of KB powers where when people are like, "Oh, I have to pay a slot to convert to KD," I'm like "cry me a river, dude."  Powers that are very powerful, powers that are in a very powerful set.

 

Energy Blast, on the other hand...  kinda sucks.

 

Let's compare Energy Blast with Radiation Blast, which has very parallel powers -- T1, T2, a high-damage blast, a cone, a TAoE, and a point blank pretty traditional Nuke.  (Energy Blast has Power Push instead of Rad Blast's PBAoE).  Rad Blast isn't setting anyone on fire as the best Blast set.

 

Here's a doc with the comparison:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E5F1lQBiNeUWl5SqNjOSBsmhJ1UvchKl5Gx1lEJpYyE/edit?usp=sharing

 

We see that they're extremely comparable, with very close DPAs and so forth.

 

But Energy Blast has a secondary effect of very unreliable, low-mag KB.  Now, look, reasonable people can differ on exactly how good or bad KB is.  But I think the range of reasonable opinion varies from "potentially useful as long as you pay a lot of attention to tactical positioning" to "it's just a slot tax."  The (reliable) defense debuffs from Rad Blast aren't setting the world on fire in terms of their utility, but they are never bad.  You never get people angry that you didn't pay a slot to change them.  They offer a chance to slot a -res proc which seems to me to be at least comparable to the Force Factor proc as a unique slotting opportunity.  And the big ST blast and the nuke in Rad Blast offer useful mezzes.  And again, Rad Blast isn't, like, amazing.

 

If Energy Blast had some unique strength to offset its difficult secondary, okay, cool.  But it doesn't.  It's the world's most standard blast set that gives you nothing besides a kind of frustrating, difficult-to-use secondary that is likely to slot-tax you for at least some of its powers. It's okay to give it a mild buff.

Edited January 2, 2022 by aethereal

[TheZag]

But replacing power push and letting some toggle add KB to burst isnt the same.  I have burst slotted for damage and power push slotted for knockback.  Unless you mean that i can 12 slot burst to get the damage and the 44 magnitude knockback that i use in power push.

[Psyonico]

I'm totally against this for the simple reason that it plays toward a meta of "You should only be using Plasmatic because its the best" and also "Anyone using Concussive gets kicked"

[ninja surprise]

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Cottage rule.

 

A simple work-around could be to duplicate the set and then tweak the copy. Then people could play Classic Energy Blast or Dynamic Energy Blast.

[Haijinx]

5 hours ago, arcane said:

Not that I would want it implemented overall, but I think you’d at least have to trade Aim like DP has to.

 

This would be an issue

 

Energy Blast is the Most "Normal" Blaster Set for Powers and Power Progression. 

 

T1 Blast

T2 Blast

Cone AOE 

T3 Blast

Sniper

Aim

Ranged ST Control

Ranged AOE 

Nuke

 

It has no derivations like the other sets do.  Removing Aim would end that situation.

 

Besides this is just a Knockback Thread.

[Bill Z Bubba]

11 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Besides this is just a Knockback Thread.

 

11 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I would absolutely roll up an nrg/bio sent and run Plasmatic 100% of the time.

 

And here I thought it was an nrg blast's damage sucks thread.

[Aurora_Girl]

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

I'm totally against this for the simple reason that it plays toward a meta of "You should only be using Plasmatic because its the best" and also "Anyone using Concussive gets kicked"

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. 

[Haijinx]

12 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

 

And here I thought it was an nrg blast's damage sucks thread.

 

Energy blast has standard damage also.  

 

But sure if they want to turn it into fire blast with Energy Blast's progression, effects and animations, sounds good in that whole Power Creep kind of way. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Energy blast has standard damage also.  

 

But sure if they want to turn it into fire blast with Energy Blast's progression, effects and animations, sounds good in that whole Power Creep kind of way. 

 

There is that and we have had enough of it.

 

Edit: But we both know a whole bunch more is coming with the sentinel changes.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Replacement]

6 hours ago, arcane said:

Congrats, you’ve managed to come up with a crafty disguise for a knockback thread 🙂

I mean... You knew what you were clicking into. 😋

 

I have to admit. This is the first time I've ever thought "yeah this would be a solution that actually fits the game."

 

NOTE: I'm not talking about the specifics (fire dot, damage debuff, etc) since those would change in testing/implementation, just the concept of swapping the push our (cottage breaking though it may be) for a toggle is neat.

 

I do like the idea that it would also increase the reliability of the other powers' Knocks to make up for Push's loss, but I don't think fire dot is happening.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Replacement

[Haijinx]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

There is that and we have had enough of it.

 

Edit: But we both know a whole bunch more is coming with the sentinel changes.

 

Yeah I mean.  I figure the war is over may as well embrace it.  

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

13 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Yeah I mean.  I figure the war is over may as well embrace it.

 

I hear ya. There are some cheats I'll never allow myself to utilize but I have started buying 8 hrs of amps for every level 1, regardless of whether I'm street sweeping, running content or just PLing them to 50. Can no longer rationalize NOT having defense amp for all my squishies. But at least I haven't started actually designing builds with all the cheats in mind.

[Aurora_Girl]

10 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I hear ya. There are some cheats I'll never allow myself to utilize but I have started buying 8 hrs of amps for every level 1, regardless of whether I'm street sweeping, running content or just PLing them to 50. Can no longer rationalize NOT having defense amp for all my squishies. But at least I haven't started actually designing builds with all the cheats in mind.

 

I'll be there to stop you, my friend. 

[The Volt]

I get the impression folk think I hate knockback, which is not the case, I just wish I had better control over it (that doesn't involve removing it from my arsenal via IO's)

 

Was just hoping to breathe some new life into an old set like has been done with other sets of late, I didn't come here with an agenda against knockback. Not saying I don't have an agenda...that agenda being nudging towards a ranged kinetic blast set, including alt animations for the blasts that reuse kinetic melee anims (Burst for Nova, Focussed Burst for Power Bolt, Assassins Strike for Snipe, Repulsing Torrent for Energy Torrent, I'm just unsure of others as I'm not sure how to implement them, also don't know if there's any files that are made or unfinished from the planned Kinetic Assault set that could be used)

 

Also, I have bias towards to Power Burst as I think it is the sets most iconic power (it just looks so cool) and had ideas based most around it. So I thought it would be cool if each different type of Energy change affected it somehow, so obviously Concussive makes it a huge knockback beast without sacrificing it's power, whilst Plasmatic would give a small AoE (think exploding shuriken, small DoT around the main target) and Kinetic could have a combo mechanic (build power using other blasts, once reached, power burst does increased damage)