Is there a Brute Tier List similar to Croax's Stalker Tier List?

[Thrax]

Unless /SR is somehow totally different than it is on scrappers, tanks, or sentinels, there is absolutely no way it isn’t S rank or whatever would be above S rank. 

[ScarySai]

It's good, but by no means in the top running considering the competition. I'll fight on that hill.

[Without_Pause]

11 hours ago, ScarySai said:

That doesn't sound like a problem with savage to me.

If your T8 heavy hitter is bested by a epic pool ranged attack, then yeah, that's a problem. It is a problem with Gloom, but it is also a problem within the power set itself.

[ScarySai]

I wish hemo wasn't trash, but considering how little relevance that has to sav's overall performance, I'm not interested in humoring this 'debate' further.

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

If your T8 heavy hitter is bested by a epic pool ranged attack, then yeah, that's a problem. It is a problem with Gloom, but it is also a problem within the power set itself.

 

The really sad part, WP, is that gloom is a better attack than the majority of all melee attacks. Just one more bit adding to the huge laundry list of ridiculously out of balance items in the game.

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, Thrax said:

Unless /SR is somehow totally different than it is on scrappers, tanks, or sentinels, there is absolutely no way it isn’t S rank or whatever would be above S rank. 

 

Super Reflexes is like Force Field.  It does what it does well, but at the end of the day it's a one trick pony.  If I wanted a defense based armor set, I'd rather go with Invulnerability, Energy Aura, Shield Defense, or Stone Armor as they offer layered mitigation, additional tricks, and in the case of Shield Defense and Stone Armor, additional offense.  YMMV.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, Apparition said:

Super Reflexes is like Force Field.  It does what it does well, but at the end of the day it's a one trick pony.  If I wanted a defense based armor set, I'd rather go with Invulnerability, Energy Aura, Shield Defense, or Stone Armor as they offer layered mitigation, additional tricks, and in the case of Shield Defense and Stone Armor, additional offense.  YMMV.

 

Four tricks. Easily softcapped defense, capped DDR, up to 60% resistance to all but psi and tox, and +SPD/+Recharge/+SPD and Recharge Resistance

 

Course everyone already knows this but they'll repeat the lie anyway.

 

Edit: The lack of +damage, a heal or even an HP buff doesn't do the set any favors which is why, like regen, it should probably get the Sent treatment to bring it up to par.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Without_Pause]

Technically speaking, I might skip the T1 on a melee set for a Brute and likely the Taunt. Outside of that, I am likely taking everything else, and that's how I judge a melee set for a Brute. I don't go, "If I add in a (epic) pool power to help round it out." I look to see if something stands on its own.

[Erratic1]

16 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Technically speaking, I might skip the T1 on a melee set for a Brute and likely the Taunt. Outside of that, I am likely taking everything else, and that's how I judge a melee set for a Brute. I don't go, "If I add in a (epic) pool power to help round it out." I look to see if something stands on its own.

 

I would include powers which are detrimental to the job (Hand Clap) or horribly miss their purpose (Proton Sweep). But YMMV.

[ScarySai]

7 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Four tricks. Easily softcapped defense, capped DDR, up to 60% resistance to all but psi and tox, and +SPD/+Recharge/+SPD and Recharge Resistance

 

I get most of this with slightly lower ddr, without being at half health, plus a heal, plus infinite endurance as energy aura.

 

And that's not even the strongest alternative for brutes. Sr isn't bad, but to imply it's better than the other sets in the running is pure, unfiltered copium.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by ScarySai

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I would include powers which are detrimental to the job (Hand Clap) or horribly miss their purpose (Proton Sweep). But YMMV.

I took Proton Sweep on any of my Rads outside of a farming build. I skipped Hand Clap on my one SS build, but I ultimately found SS to be boring in general, so I wasn't going to rank it that high anyway. I keep my SS/elec around so maybe I give it another go as it is already level 42. SS to me feels like you need to add in stuff to counter its shortcomings. Hand Clap which needs an KD IO, and a Stun to stack it with. Hurl can be skipped as maybe other pool attacks can fill in better(Gloom/Cross Punch), and has one AoE although at Holy Shirt Balls level. Plus the Rage crash. The best part of SS, FS, is even better on a Tank due to target cap.

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

I took Proton Sweep on any of my Rads outside of a farming build. I skipped Hand Clap on my one SS build, but I ultimately found SS to be boring in general, so I wasn't going to rank it that high anyway. I keep my SS/elec around so maybe I give it another go as it is already level 42. SS to me feels like you need to add in stuff to counter its shortcomings. Hand Clap which needs an KD IO, and a Stun to stack it with. Hurl can be skipped as maybe other pool attacks can fill in better(Gloom/Cross Punch), and has one AoE although at Holy Shirt Balls level. Plus the Rage crash. The best part of SS, FS, is even better on a Tank due to target cap.

 

One man's junk and all that....

 

Not going to argue SS is some sort of gift to Brutes (though I do run an SS/Bio and am quite happy with him)  so much as note I went the other say--kept Hurl (with my Epic powers being neither single target when ranged or not ranged give me the sometimes useful ability to hit one thing at range). Hand Clap...I'm going to survive, so knocking things down as other than a side benefit was not compelling. Like you, took Cross Punch.  Rage crash is annoying, no doubt about it. 

 

I may however lose my mind if I suffer too many more, "Better on a Tanker", comments in this life. Yes, it can hit more targets on a Tanker. But SS has more than one power and AT does matter. Also it is doubtful one is going to FS a boss to death.  

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:48 AM, ScarySai said:

C. SR

[DarknessEternal]

SR is good, but it isn't top tier.  This is due to it's lack of any healing/regen. 

 

There exist armor sets that provide every layer of durability at good quality, and SR just isn't one of those.  This is objective.

[ScarySai]

I didn't give it a bloody F. C is perfectly fair for SR.

[Randolk]

Battle Axe on F tier not even close. Almost every attack in the set provides KD, which is HUGE mitigation. And it comes with the possibility of slapping FF proc in several attacks. Which is insanely good by itself, especially with a secondary like SD which likes high recharge. If only it had the same treatment as War Mace with Clobber, it would be S tier by far.

[DarknessEternal]

28 minutes ago, Randolk said:

Battle Axe on F tier not even close. Almost every attack in the set provides KD, which is HUGE mitigation. And it comes with the possibility of slapping FF proc in several attacks. Which is insanely good by itself, especially with a secondary like SD which likes high recharge. If only it had the same treatment as War Mace with Clobber, it would be S tier by far.

Remember, this is all relative.  Is axe really better than all the other ones in F?

[Without_Pause]

Higher end testing, but it might be interesting to see how builds do on 801.2 +4/x8.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Without_Pause

[Bill Z Bubba]

22 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Higher end testing, but it might be interesting to see how builds do on 801.2 +4/x8.

 

BZB (claws/sr scrap) can't do it. No heal, they're obviously packing major tohit buffs.

Zariela (shield/nrg tank) faceplanted on 3rd spawn.

 

Might do better with rebirth but then I'd probably get sapped to death on both.

 

I could certainly respec completely to get the jobs done but I wouldn't want to play those builds.

[Linea]

801.0-Static at +0x8

*IF* you want to use 801, and be applicable to the widest range of builds, I'd say use 801.0-static +0x8, it's a set static map and not random.  That should be doable by just about any brute. 

 

With the current meta, even tanks build to offense, while 801 assumes that if you are defense based you back it with at least some resist, and if you are resist based you back it with at least some defense.  Brutes these days typically build to offense, if they planned to build to durability they'd probably roll a tank.  The only armor with a strong argument to build to durability on brute instead of tank would be granite so that the +damage dilution also acts as a -damage dilution.    

 

As a reference, my EnM/EnA Scrapper ran 27 minutes on +4x8, and 17m on +0x8.   I'm not at all sure what that will tell you or how to use that information.  But Hey, I'm always game to run another 801. 😜

 

 

801 Tank Armor Durability Ratings  (solo durability, not teamed)

Here's how I rate the armors on Tanks, but that's not the same as brutes.  I'll get to brutes later.

 

801 Tanks:

12: SR, SD

10: Inv

9 or 10: Stone

6 or 7: All other Tank armors.  (Except Regen if it ever gets ported)

 

 

801 Brute Armor Durability Ratings (solo durability, not teamed)

For the brute conversion, and standard content, I wouldn't change the ratings, other than to move stone up to 10, and add EnA at 7.

However, for 801, the loss of defense numbers in the conversion pretty much squishes all four top armors down even to a 7 and adds EnA into the same tier.

 

801 Brutes:

7: SR, SD, Inv, Stone, EnA

5 or 6: Everything else except Regen.  I have no rating for Regen.

 

 

I'd really like to convert the scrapper to brute with minimal dps loss, so I can pickup the higher resist cap and/or darkest night.  But that's a very tall order.  The primaries have similar conversion issues.  I know what I'd pick as a Tank, Scrapper, or Stalker, and those are not the same across those three ATs.  But Brutes are even messier to correlate, which is why I asked. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Linea

[Without_Pause]

7 minutes ago, Linea said:

801 Brutes:

7: SR, SD, Inv, Stone, EnA

5 or 6: Everything else except Regen

"except Regen" Tries to be shocked.

 

I don't have a EA Brute yet, but I got a Claws/ea Scrapper to 50 so working on seeing how that goes. Initial pass was fine as Shockwave and Focus are helpful.

[Brutal Justice]

With all the regen talk lately I’ve been trying to run an ancient stj/regen brute through things like +4x8 ITF and trapdoor to see how it does.  I haven’t really done any of these tests before so I’m not very familiar with map layout and enemy comps so my speeds are mediocre.  I’m also not a speed runner in general.  

 

I feel ok on the regen side of things.  I feel like I suffer more from the street justice side with only spinning strike for aoe.  

 

I tried that 801.0 static map and died a few times before I figured out I couldn’t just focus the boss and needed to take out the minions first.  Then I ran into a heavy shocker.  No answer for that.  I don’t have a ranged attack and he just saps me and we both stand there just looking at each other.  Well, he’s doing things, but I’m just standing There with nothing to do but passive regen.  

[Saikochoro]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:56 AM, ScarySai said:

 

I get most of this with slightly lower ddr, without being at half health, plus a heal, plus infinite endurance as energy aura.

 

And that's not even the strongest alternative for brutes. Sr isn't bad, but to imply it's better than the other sets in the running is pure, unfiltered copium.

 

 

I also believe EA to be a superior set. However, I think Bill was debunking the myth that SR is a one trick pony. It may not be the absolute best armor, but it is certainly not a one trick pony. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Saikochoro said:

I also believe EA to be a superior set. However, I think Bill was debunking the myth that SR is a one trick pony. It may not be the absolute best armor, but it is certainly not a one trick pony. 

 

I'm still not a fan of how clicky NrgAura feels. And it's just two clicks.

[Saikochoro]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I'm still not a fan of how clicky NrgAura feels. And it's just two clicks.

Yeah I can understand that. I used to enjoy bio armor, but can’t hardly touch that armor anymore because it’s so clicky and not as tough. I’m on a toughness kick. 

 

I personally think shield is better than all! Only one click on that!

Edited February 3, 2022 by Saikochoro