Placate not causing Hidden?

[Wavicle]

Is the new Placate supposed to put me into the Hidden state or not? It has been so long since I took Placate on any character I forgot how it used to work.

 

Is it supposed to say Hidden in green in the corner after I use Placate? It isn't doing so on my Dark/Ice.

[Bopper]

 

20 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Is the new Placate supposed to put me into the Hidden state or not? It has been so long since I took Placate on any character I forgot how it used to work.

 

Is it supposed to say Hidden in green in the corner after I use Placate? It isn't doing so on my Dark/Ice.

 

I don't recall if it makes you Hidden (i assumed it did, though), but I think it gives you 100% meter which is what's used to check for stealth crits.

[Wavicle]

I’ve been using it for the first time since the changes and I’m not quite sure yet if it’s consistently working properly or not. A little tricky to tell sometimes.

[Bopper]

If it's not, definitely post the results. The effect should be happening 0.25s into the animation, so it's unlikely you are breaking your kMeter before your attack. But you might have an aura that disrupts it, or perhaps there are more targets than foes hit by placate. I'm mostly spitballing, but throwing it out there as things you may want to pay attention to.

 

Also recall, if you use an AoE from stealth it has only 50% chance to crit. So check that as well. It might also be worth seeing if global enhancements are doing something. For example, what happens if you use interface and Placate? Does the interface go off, breaking it? Again, spitballing

[Wavicle]

Would Chilling Embrace break it?

[Wavicle]

Stealth from Placate should suppress auras, no?

[Wavicle]

Honestly, I think it probably is working as intended, it's just still pretty fragile, as it has always been. The animation time and target cap changes are very nice though.

[SuggestorK]

Chilling embrace has slow aura component that affects foes, (at least the similar power on my ice blaster does) so that would break it.

 

Not sure if Hide suppress aura, stealth dont, it did it for a short time before last changes though.

[aethereal]

Hide suppresses offensive auras.

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, SuggestorK said:

Chilling embrace has slow aura component that affects foes, (at least the similar power on my ice blaster does) so that would break it.

 

Not sure if Hide suppress aura, stealth dont, it did it for a short time before last changes though.

 

Stealth should be suppressing the aura, if not that's a bug for sure.

[Wavicle]

I think I figured out the problem. I think the lingering ToHit Debuffs from my Dark Melee attacks may be breaking Hide from Placate.

 

Placate is still pretty much worthless if secondary effects, NOT damage, break Hidden status. I feel like this is something the Devs might consider addressing.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Wavicle

[Wavicle]

I have NOT figured out the problem. SOMETIMES it works, SOMETIMES it doesn't. SOMETIMES it makes AS slow after using it, SOMETIMES it doesn't.

The behavior of Placate, at least on my Dark Melee/Ice Armor Stalker, seems to be rather unpredictable.

[Wavicle]

I guess I'm wondering how does Stealth Suppression and Hide work in regards to being attacked or being hit, because I Think I'm just timing my placates badly or something.

 

It would be really nice if the power were a little more robust in its effect. It should erase me from the knowledge of the guys it hits regardless of what happens over the next couple seconds unless I purposely attack again, but it does not always.

[Wavicle]

Frankly, I think it is likely that what I am seeing is that Stalkers with Aura powers are penalized by having their Placates and Stalker's Guile be far more fragile.

[Troo]

Placate has an activation of 0.8 seconds

Hide has an activation of 0.73 seconds with a recharge of 2 seconds

 

Placate can be used without hide or stealth.

 

If the placate effect is at 0.25 of it's 0.80 activation (as @Bopper said), and then the Hide activation. It could be a minimum of almost a full second before Hide kicks in.

But it feels a bit longer than that.

If Hide can't start it's clock until Placates full activation is complete it would be closer to 1.53 seconds before being hidden.

Worst case could be the Placate + Hide recharge + Hide Activation.

 

Edit: This is seen when trying to Placate then Assassin Strike. Too fast and you get the fast AS rather than the long AS. A bit of a pause in order to get the long AS.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Troo

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, Troo said:

Placate has an activation of 0.8 seconds

Hide has an activation of 0.73 seconds

 

Placate can be used without hide or stealth.

 

If the placate effect is at 0.25 of it's 0.80 activation (as @Bopper said), then it could be almost a full second before Hide kicks in minimum.

If Hide can't start it's clock until Placates full activation is complete it would be closer to 1.53 seconds before being hidden.

 

Edit: This is seen when trying to Placate then Assassin Strike. Too fast and you get the fast AS rather than the long AS. A bit of a pause in order to get the fast AS.

 

 

Placate doesn't toggle Hide on.  It applies a Stealth effect and a Hidden flag.

[Troo]

42 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Placate doesn't toggle Hide on.  It applies a Stealth effect and a Hidden flag.

 

Trying to now figure out how long until we're hidden after using Placate. I only know its a pause, more than 2ish seconds.

 

It is not instant or close to instant.**
 

Spoiler

BS>Placate>AS

You activated the Bone Smasher power.
HIT Practice Dummy! Your Bone Smasher power had a 48.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 44.67.
You gain 1 stack of Assassin's Focus!
You hit Practice Dummy with your Bone Smasher for 0 points of Smashing damage.
You hit Practice Dummy with your Bone Smasher for 0 points of Energy damage.
You hit Practice Dummy with your Bone Smasher for 0 points of Energy damage [CRITICAL].
Readying Placate.
You activated the Placate power.
HIT Practice Dummy! Your Placate power is autohit.
HIT Practice Dummy! Your Placate power is autohit.
HIT Practice Dummy! Your Placate power is autohit.
You Placate Practice Dummy.
You Placate Practice Dummy.
You Placate Practice Dummy.
You activated the Assassins Strike Quick power.
HIT Practice Dummy! Your Assassins Strike Quick power had a 57.60% chance to hit, you rolled a 47.61.
You hit Practice Dummy with your Assassins Strike Quick for 0 points of Smashing damage.
You hit Practice Dummy with your Assassins Strike Quick for 0 points of Energy damage. 

Bone Smasher is recharged.

 

 

 

** IF SOMEONE THINKS THIS IS BEHAVING INCORRECTLY, I'M ONBOARD WITH ADDRESSING IT!!

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Troo

[Solarverse]

I have brought this up sooooo many times in the past, even on live. Nobody seemed to care but me so I gave up the good fight. I am soooo glad other people besides myself are noticing this now.

Placate Bugs that I have noticed over the years.

1: Placate is null if target has debuff or tics of damage from previous attacks. The original Devs were aware of this but it was never fixed.
2: Once the use of +Perception IOs came out, Placate was supposed to put you back in to hide, not this silly pseudo Hide. That was never fixed. Castle was considering putting Placate back to its original state. Placate was originally a Single Target Placate, but it put you back in to full hide, thus giving it the illusion that it was an AoE Placate. It should be reverted back to what it originally was, since the nerf that it was given is no longer needed.

3: Placate will sometimes allow you to use the Long Version of Assassin's Strike, other times your Assassin's Strike doesn't get the message that you had just used Placate and Fast Activates anyway, leaving you with the undesired Damage you were hoping for. Edit: I think this has something to do with the Pseudo Hide instead of full Hide. If I were a Dev, I would start looking there for the culprit of what is causing the bug.

4: Placate is supposed to suppress all Offensive Toggles. Some Toggles it works for, some Toggles it does not work for.

 

 

Number Two and Three are my biggest gripes. I can deal with number One as long as the power still puts me back in to full hide. Number Four is not my biggest gripe, but it would sure be nice to have this fixed as well.

 

Again, sooo damn glad that somebody else has finally noticed. It was frustrating and tiring feeling like I was the only one who noticed...and even worse, the only one who cared.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Solarverse
Edited for clarity.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Frankly, I think it is likely that what I am seeing is that Stalkers with Aura powers are penalized by having their Placates and Stalker's Guile be far more fragile.

 

It's not supposed to work that way. That is a bug. See above.

[Luminara]

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

Trying to now figure out how long until we're hidden after using Placate.

 

0.5s animation time before effect (this is how the Co* engine synchronizes animations with effects, through temporal offset of the effect to match the measured or anticipated animated connection with the target.  it's also necessary to allow things like debuffs and DoTs, many of which operate on a 0.5s activation interval, to open a window for the power to activate without being unintentionally cancelled).  0.25s after that, the Stealth effect and Hidden flag are applied.

 

0.75s.

 

Network latency in ms should also be added, because the server has to verify some of the client data, such as position and range.  Latency is factored individually, not as a single metric (meaning, my latency is different from yours, and yours is different from @Wavicle's, and @Wavicle's is different from @Bopper's, et cetera).  On a typical day, my latency is around 180ms, or 0.18s.

 

Adding Arcanatime, the time the server takes to process the client's request, tacks on another 0.256s for Placate.  If we factor for a blisteringly fast connection, with a 50ms latency, we'd be looking at 1.056s (coincidentally, the exact animation time for Placate when factoring for Arcanatime) before the Placate "kicked in".  For me, it would average 1.186s.  On a slower connection, it could go as high as 1.25s, or even 1.5s, though, at that point, the player would likely be furiously mashing keys in an attempt to trigger some response from the game (from personal experience).

 

So you should be Hidden 1.056s, at the soonest, after using Placate, but a higher network latency would necessitate a longer wait.  That's the numerical answer, according to Placate's attributes.  I can't add any more to the discussion that wouldn't be speculation.

[Troo]

30 minutes ago, Luminara said:

So you should be Hidden 1.056s, at the soonest, after using Placate, but a higher network latency would necessitate a longer wait.  That's the numerical answer, according to Placate's attributes.  I can't add any more to the discussion that wouldn't be speculation.

 

Good stuff.

 

To be super clear for anyone following. I am seeing similar behavior that @Solarverse listed. The exception being I've never had a long animation Assassins Strike with the current Placate without waiting 3+ seconds.

[Wavicle]

Like you pointed out, there are a few different bugs, but one of the things I'm seeing isn't really a bug, just an unfortunate feature I think.

I placate two Longbow, but because I don't time it just PERFECTLY one them fires and hits me, which takes me out of stealth, my Aura becomes unsuppressed, and the placate is ruined.

 

There should be a period of a few seconds after using Placate that a Stalker CANNOT be unstealthed by the same mobs that were just placated. It's just grossly unfair.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Wavicle

[Solarverse]

I have a possible fix to this bug, and a solution to make Placate what it was meant to be. Devs and players alike can check it out in the link below.
 

 

[Bopper]

Cross-posting, as it pertains to this bug report. It appears Placate's effect that sets you to hidden (Meter attribute) is being affected by Purple Patch. So keep an eye on this when testing. If you ever use Placate against an enemy that is higher level than you, you will not go into Hidden state. 

 

 

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

Cross-posting, as it pertains to this bug report. It appears Placate's effect that sets you to hidden (Meter attribute) is being affected by Purple Patch. So keep an eye on this when testing. If you ever use Placate against an enemy that is higher level than you, you will not go into Hidden state. 

 

As I  understood it, it just puts you in "hidden" state to the target of the stalker's placate and not into a "hidden" state to other nearby targets.