New Sentinel blast set proposal: Nature Blast

[Underfyre]

This was transferred across from the Sentinel Forums, thus this is a Sentinel set. Numbers are Sentinel numbers. The ability tiers are at Sentinel intervals.

 

So like, maybe a handful of you at best, I started my foray into MMOs in 1999 with EverQuest. I started a week or two after my friends from StarCraft, so I had some catching up to do. It was suggested I try out a Druid because they were easy to solo and leveled fast. I loved the class, played it up into raids and beyond. This set is based off of that. I also plan to put together a defense set themed off of Druid buffs, I'm just not there yet. All numbers are based off of standard formulas. The T2 cast time is intentionally low to make it "match up" with the damage output of the T1, but it will eventually get outpaced with Offensive Opportunity and Interface procs.

 

The kit is mostly based off of the "spell lines" for the Druid. They were known for roots, snares, a magic based dot line, a fire based debuff/dot line, fire based DDs, a lightning aoe, and earthquake spells on the offense side. They also had a "wind" spell line that was good for interrupting spell casts, but I didn't have room to weave that in. Additionally, their "final" spells at level 49 were both a fire and an ice version, but I'm sticking to the Fire theme.

 

T1: 

Ignite - Named from the level 9 DD spell. Low level, doesn't do a ton of damage.

Animation: Flares 

Damage: 44.38 Fire

Accuracy: 1

Cast: 1

Recharge: 3

End: 4.37

 

T2:

Combust - Named from the level 29 DD spell. Mid level, does moderate damage. This started out as Immolate to tie in a defense debuff, and I may change it back, but I wasn't sure about two dramatically different attacks in the T1 and T2. Dark Blast has two different kinds of attacks, so whatever, it's not unheard of. It would play with the mechanic of the set if it was made into a DOT, but having a T2 that does less damage than the T1 until you have your T4 doesn't sounds fun to me.

Animation: Also Flares/Fire Blast

Damage: 78.19 Fire

Accuracy: 1

Cast: 1.17

Recharge: 7

End: 7.70

 

T3:

Lightning Strike - Named from the level 34 AoE spell. Planned to function similar to Lightning Ball, but I'm thinking a different animation, like Thunderous Blast.

Damage: 57.06 Energy

Accuracy: 1

Cast: 1.17

Recharge: 12

End: 11.86

Targets: 10

Radius: 15

Arc: 360

 

T4:

Enveloping Roots: Named from the level 39 Root spell. Now we're getting into the "mechanic" of the set. After a few months into EQs launch, DOT spells were changed to do 1/3 damage against moving targets, so the "root and rot" technique was developed. Slightly more mana intensive, but just as safe as "kiting." So here's my mechanic, Primary attacks with DOTs do 1/3 damage unless the target is held/immobilized.

Animation: Strangler/Entangle

Damage: 63.95 Smashing/39.60 Lethal

Accuracy: 1

Cast: 1.67

Recharge: 10

End: 10.19

 

T5:

I'm kind of on the fence about the name. Right now I have it as Storm Strength, but I'm up for suggestions.

 

T6:

Upheaval - Named from the level 51 PBAoE spell. Run of the mill earthquake spell.

Animation: Earthquake

Damage: 47.55 Smashing

Accuracy: 1

Cast: 2.17

Recharge: 15

End: 14.35

Targets: 10

Radius: 20

Arc: 360

 

T7:

Winged Death: Named from the level 53 DOT spell.  This spell had a higher than normal hit rate, so that's reflected in its accuracy. 

Damage: 8 ticks of 6.43 Lethal. Additional 8 * 12.86 Lethal damage against a "rooted" target.

Animation: Call Swarm

Accuracy: 1.15

Cast: 1.83

Recharge: 16

End: 15.18

 

T8:

Wildfire: Named from the level 59 Nuke. Added a "burn" effect to give the root mechanic something else to do.

Animation: Blaze

Damage: 120.45 Fire + 80% (cancel on miss) * 4 chance for 3.96 damage. Additional 80% (cancel on miss) * 4 * 7.93 Fire damage against a "rooted" target.

Accuracy: 1.2

Cast: 1.07

Recharge: 12

End: 11.86

 

T9:

Fist of Nature - Named from the level 58 spell Fist of Karana. Obviously Karana makes no sense in this game, so he was replaced. Another targeted AOE spell.

Animation: Not sure.

Damage: 119.03 Energy/49.03 Smashing

Accuracy: 1.4

Cast: 2.93

Recharge: 90

End: 15.60

Targets: 10

Radius: 25

Arc: 360

 

 

Let me know what you all think. Yes I've put this in my spreadsheet, it's designed to be more on the top end of damage, but below Fire/Electric.

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by underfyre

[Underfyre]

Oh, so this would "pair up" with Nature Affinity for Corruptors and Defenders if were ported to them. I guess Plant Manipulation for Blasters. Otherwise they can have a seat.

[Nyghtmaire]

First glance, like the mix of damage types. Well thought out and fun.

[Force Redux]

I'd sign up for this. I want to blast ebil doers with the power of nature. 

[Thrax]

I’d roll one in a second. Maybe refill my favorite defender. My nature/sonic. Hipster Thrax. Who Asks teammates to gather for his non gmo buffs!!

[UltraAlt]

New blast set proposal: Nature Blast

 

On 1/21/2022 at 5:51 PM, underfyre said:

Druid

 

First off, I think we already know what "Nature" means in THE City, and that is why I clicked to check out this thread.

 

With "Nature", I'm expecting plant or spine SFX like the rest of the "Nature" powers.

The way it is listed it is definitely more of a "Druid" power set than it is a "Nature" Blaster set.

 

Most Blaster power sets have a set theme (secondary effect) that most of the powers have. There are some sets where the damage types vary.

To me, it would obviously be toxic, but I think it would be an interesting secondary effect to be a minor stackable entangle.

 

Mixing Earth, Wind, and Fire (and electric and cold ... and negative) into it, I could see it more as an Elemental power set. 

For some reason my gut reaction is that it gives too many damage types to one power set (Looks like you are trying to give it most if not all of the damage types other than smashing and lethal). Smashing, lethal and an another type of damage are often mixed into a power set. I don't know if there is another powerset that mixes this many elemental damage types (all of them apparently) in one set (which in my mind may give it some kind of advantage over the other power sets, but, as I said, just a gut reaction)

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by UltraAlt

[A Cat]

No bee blast? 

[Marbing]

I like the idea of a blast set that does all kinds of different damage types. Interesting way you have implemented that here!

[Underfyre]

3 hours ago, A Cat said:

No bee blast? 

 

For all intents and purposes that would be the Winged Death ability.

[Rudra]

Feels like you are trying to cover all damage types so you always have an answer to mob weaknesses. Pick a central damage type theme instead of grabbing everything please.

 

I honestly expected the proposed set to be a lot of lethal/toxic (for piercing plant attacks) and smash/toxic (for crushing or blunt plant attacks).

[Underfyre]

9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

First off, I think we already know what "Nature" means in THE City, and that is why I clicked to check out this thread.

 

With "Nature", I'm expecting plant or spine SFX like the rest of the "Nature" powers.

The way it is listed it is definitely more of a "Druid" power set than it is a "Nature" Blaster set.

 

Admittedly, you are correct. But I was coming from Druid, so I went with Nature. It's nothing set in stone, and honestly I don't even expect to ever see it implemented. I mostly just had an interest in seeing if I could take something from one MMO and see how it would be realized in another.

 

9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

For some reason my gut reaction is that it gives too many damage types to one power set (Looks like you are trying to give it most if not all of the damage types other than smashing and lethal). Smashing, lethal and an another type of damage are often mixed into a power set. I don't know if there is another powerset that mixes this many elemental damage types (all of them apparently) in one set (which in my mind may give it some kind of advantage over the other power sets, but, as I said, just a gut reaction)

 

Also correct, the only blast set that comes remotely close is Assault Rifle that switches primary damage types between Smashing/Lethal/Fire. But honestly ...meh? I had a vision and I tried to interpret it as best I could within the constraints of CoH. I mean, could I change certain spells and take liberties how they work to keep things constrained to a single damage type --like turning Sunbeam into a fire based T3 aoe instead the aoe blind it is in EQ-- but then it's just Fire Blast? Where's the fun in that? I'm having even more fun trying to turn the Druid buffs into a Defense Secondary. I'm making a few concessions there. I'm also not nearly as well versed in defense numbers as I am on offense numbers.

[Underfyre]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Feels like you are trying to cover all damage types so you always have an answer to mob weaknesses. Pick a central damage type theme instead of grabbing everything please.

 

I honestly expected the proposed set to be a lot of lethal/toxic (for piercing plant attacks) and smash/toxic (for crushing or blunt plant attacks).

 

I mean, it should sound like I looked at the Druid abilities from EQ and interpreted them in to City of Heroes. Could I swap out the "Stinging Swarm" Line for the "Flame Lick" line? Yeah, I guess. Not really being "true" to the Druid inspiration, as the swarm lines were your primary DoT spells, but it would fall into your vision of how CoH sets are built. But do you really think that trying to bounce between damage types is feasible? The Root ability is required to make the Winged Death ability maximize its damage, so those are already a package deal. All the other single target attacks are Fire typed. Are you going to try to sub in your AOE attacks to get Energy/Smashing damage at play? I don't doubt the ingenuity of the player base to try to maximize their damage, but that sounds pretty tedious. At the end of the day, I haven't seen any set-in-stone guidance on sets being constrained to a single damage type. Besides, this is just an idea I had that I really don't ever see being implemented. As long I expect the worst I won't be disappointed, right?

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, underfyre said:

 

I mean, it should sound like I looked at the Druid abilities from EQ and interpreted them in to City of Heroes. Could I swap out the "Stinging Swarm" Line for the "Flame Lick" line? Yeah, I guess. Not really being "true" to the Druid inspiration, as the swarm lines were your primary DoT spells, but it would fall into your vision of how CoH sets are built. But do you really think that trying to bounce between damage types is feasible? The Root ability is required to make the Winged Death ability maximize its damage, so those are already a package deal. All the other single target attacks are Fire typed. Are you going to try to sub in your AOE attacks to get Energy/Smashing damage at play? I don't doubt the ingenuity of the player base to try to maximize their damage, but that sounds pretty tedious. At the end of the day, I haven't seen any set-in-stone guidance on sets being constrained to a single damage type. Besides, this is just an idea I had that I really don't ever see being implemented. As long I expect the worst I won't be disappointed, right?

And there is my concern. I've never played EQ, so not worried about how that game works. You are trying to create a druid set in CoX. That's fine. Problem: Druid spells include ice/cold (Ice Blast and Ice Control), plant (Plant Control  and Plant Manipulation), weather spells (Storm Summoning), animal summons (Beast Mastery), and shapeshifting. Specializations include sea druids (Water Blast), stone druids (Earth Control and Earth Assault), Sky Druids (back to Storm Summoning with Electrical Blast), desert druids (arguably Fire Blast), and so forth. Making a do everything druid set for CoX is an interesting idea, but it also tries to do too much.

 

When I first saw this post, I was hoping you had come up with something new. Instead, you present a mix of attacks that lets you tailor your damage type to your opponent. Seemingly by taking preferred powers from other sets and consolidating them.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add last paragraph.

[biostem]

I understand the niche you are trying to fill with this set, but I think that is its undoing;  While in context of the source you are drawing from, it makes sense, within CoH it just feels all over the place.  I almost feel like this would make more sense for an "elementals" MM set, where you summon ones from different elements, which in turn utilize the appropriate powers.  As @UltraAlt mentioned, "Nature" currently has a defined meaning wihin CoH, and that's spines/thorns/plants/toxic...

Edited February 16, 2022 by biostem

[UltraAlt]

6 hours ago, underfyre said:

Also correct, the only blast set that comes remotely close is Assault Rifle that switches primary damage types between Smashing/Lethal/Fire.

 

In all honesty/fairness, Dual Pistols does have ammo that allows changing damage types to ice, fire, and toxic.

But it does that for all your powers and not select powers in the set. You could toggle it before using each power, I guess.

 

6 hours ago, underfyre said:

I had a vision and I tried to interpret it as best I could within the constraints of CoH.

 

That's understood, but I'm assuming in the the other game that you don't have primary, secondary, power pools, and Epic power sets and are confined to the one power set, is that correct?

You seems to be cramming what could be pulled from a secondary, power pools, and epic powers into one primary power set, but I might not be understanding what you are trying to do.

 

6 hours ago, underfyre said:

like turning Sunbeam into a fire based T3 aoe instead the aoe blind it is in EQ

 

The T3 you have listed as "Lightning Strike".

In regard to AoE Blind for a Blaster doesn't seem like a thing. I think the blinds are only relegated to controllers.

 

6 hours ago, underfyre said:

I'm having even more fun trying to turn the Druid buffs into a Defense Secondary

 

What do you mean by a Defense secondary? 

You mean like a Scrapper Secondary?

 

Anyway, keep being creative. It's a good thing.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

I almost feel like this would make more sense for an "elementals" MM set, where you summon ones from different elements, which in turn utilize the appropriate powers.

 

Oh, yeah. I could see that.

Good idea.

... and perhaps this should be a spin-off thread at this point.

 

Three pet types so an element for each set. Great.

As for the Blaster part of the set, we do not currently have masterminds with Fire, Water, or Seismic Blasts.

 

So looking at this as a 4 element set; Earth, Water, Air, and Fire (as it would be harder to reconcile the Chinese 5 element set of wood, fire, earth, metal, and water with CoH), I would think that Air would be relegated to 2nd or 3rd tier pets as stormy powers as there is no Air/Wind related blaster set currently. 

In going with the Druid-theme, I would suggest the mastermind get the Seismic blasts, and have the Fire pets for the first tier mm pets and water being for the 2nd or 3rd tier pet (whichever the stormies aren't). I think the first pets first because there are more of them and I think visually it would work better with more fire pets running around than water pets.

I'm tending to think the stormy pet as third tier at this point because two stormy pets running around knocking enemies back might be a bit much. Plus the summoning of fire elements and then water elements being the build up to summoning stormy/air/wind elementals seem correct.

 

Well, that was a fun thought experiment!

Still a bit concerned about the access to so many damage types, but still, even so.

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

8 hours ago, underfyre said:

Besides, this is just an idea I had that I really don't ever see being implemented. As long I expect the worst I won't be disappointed, right?

 

It's good to be creative.

I don't think anyone here is trying to stifle your creativity ... at least, they shouldn't be.

[biostem]

35 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

So looking at this as a 4 element set; Earth, Water, Air, and Fire (as it would be harder to reconcile the Chinese 5 element set of wood, fire, earth, metal, and water with CoH), I would think that Air would be relegated to 2nd or 3rd tier pets as stormy powers as there is no Air/Wind related blaster set currently. 

 

Not to derail things too much, but I think a classic 4-elements arrangement would be pretty easy to do:

 

Two of your tier-1 pets would be ranged fire blasters, with the 3rd being a water blaster with some healing powers, (heck, you could basically reverse the dehydrate power for this).  Your tier-2 pets would use a combination of seismic blasts and earth control abilities, and your tier-3 pet would use powers from storm summoning, such as tornado and lightning storm, possibly with an electrical blast or buff thrown in for good measure.  Then you, as the mastermind, could have charged bolts, hydro blast, and a fireball as your personal attack, and perhaps a much watered-down version of meteor as the set's special attack, (it could provide a temporary damage buff to any of your elementals it lands near)...

Edited February 16, 2022 by biostem

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

 

Not to derail things too much, but I think a classic 4-elements arrangement would be pretty easy to do:

 

Two of your tier-1 pets would be ranged fire blasters, with the 3rd being a water blaster with some healing powers, (heck, you could basically reverse the dehydrate power for this).  Your tier-2 pets would use a combination of seismic blasts and earth control abilities, and your tier-3 pet would use powers from storm summoning, such as tornado and lightning storm, possibly with an electrical blast or buff thrown in for good measure.  Then you, as the mastermind, could have charged bolts, hydro blast, and a fireball as your personal attack, and perhaps a much watered-down version of meteor as the set's special attack, (it could provide a temporary damage buff to any of your elementals it lands near)...

 

Main problem with this being no other mastermind sets have mixed pet types in the same tier.

 

Having each pet type have one type each and having the mastermind have the the final one does cover all 4.

[Rudra]

Mercs' 3rd tier 1 pet is a medic. Demons tier 1 pets are fire blast, ice blast, and hellfire blast (fire/dark). This really should be a different thread though.

[biostem]

4 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Main problem with this being no other mastermind sets have mixed pet types in the same tier.

 

Having each pet type have one type each and having the mastermind have the the final one does cover all 4.

You are incorrect, as @Rudra pointed out...

[Underfyre]

11 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

That's understood, but I'm assuming in the the other game that you don't have primary, secondary, power pools, and Epic power sets and are confined to the one power set, is that correct?

You seems to be cramming what could be pulled from a secondary, power pools, and epic powers into one primary power set, but I might not be understanding what you are trying to do.

 

Within the confines of how Sentinel blast sets operate, I believe this set stays true to the formula. Short of taking liberties with jumping around damage types, nothing about the types of abilities chosen is out of the norm. Plenty of sets have a Hold/Immobilize. A PBEA and a Targeted AOE is nothing new. A TAOE for a T9 is also established. It could also be swapped to just another PBAE with no detriment to the set.

 

With regards to the damage types being different on the AOE abilities, AOE abilities already have a much lower damage done when used in single target situations. If you are being so resisted (by fire no less, the least resisted type in the game) that you had to swap to an AOE ability with a much higher end cost, you were probably losing the fight anyway. When I set out I didn't just think, "sure would be cool if I could just shoehorn in every damage type available." I was taking the spell list from a class in one game and making it fit into another.

11 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

The T3 you have listed as "Lightning Strike".

In regard to AoE Blind for a Blaster doesn't seem like a thing. I think the blinds are only relegated to controllers.

 

No, EverQuest Druids had a spell called Sunbeam that was a AOE blind. I'm saying taking that spell, based off the name, and turning it into a fire AOE. Blind not included. That name sounds like it could be a fire AOE to me. Then replacing Lightning Strike with it. Now there's a Fire AOE instead of an energy AOE.

11 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

What do you mean by a Defense secondary? 

You mean like a Scrapper Secondary?

 

No, I mean a Sentinel secondary. But yeah, a defense set. Would it be more feasible as a Support set? Absolutely. But Sentinels are my baby and they get virtually no love. From anyone.

[Naraka]

11 hours ago, biostem said:

I understand the niche you are trying to fill with this set, but I think that is its undoing;  While in context of the source you are drawing from, it makes sense, within CoH it just feels all over the place.  I almost feel like this would make more sense for an "elementals" MM set, where you summon ones from different elements, which in turn utilize the appropriate powers.  As @UltraAlt mentioned, "Nature" currently has a defined meaning wihin CoH, and that's spines/thorns/plants/toxic...

 

I'm glad someone else shares my sentiment. I'd say, for multi element sets, if you were going that route would likely have to be the set's gimmick, kind of like Dual Pistols. Otherwise, most sets try to stay within a particular conceptual range because you can already create mixed damage via primary, secondary, epic and pool sets. 

 

Only certain sets tend to mix multiple concepts like MM sets and sometimes Blaster secondaries. 

 

Overall, I think it'd be a neat set functionally but conceptually, kind of shallow and leaning on the concept of "nature" but not the execution of actually using or manipulating nature.

 

[biostem]

39 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Overall, I think it'd be a neat set functionally but conceptually, kind of shallow and leaning on the concept of "nature" but not the execution of actually using or manipulating nature.

 

I wonder how difficult it would be to add some sort of "elemental attunement" mechanic, where you can activate one of 4 mutually exclusive toggles, which shift which particular element you are using at any given moment;  I suppose they'd basically have to code 4 versions of each power in the set...

[UltraAlt]

8 hours ago, biostem said:

You are incorrect, as @Rudra pointed out...

 

I see that there are three different pets in the tier 1 on demons. Admittedly, I haven't run a demon mastermind since live.

 

What attack power would the mastermind have if not Seismic then?

 

 I think that the set-up is valid to give the mastermind attack powers that fits in with the theme.