Why do people say Poison needs help?

[Wavicle]

I'm playing a Poison Defender now and it seems Very potent...what's the problem?

[Six-Six]

From what I gather, there are two kinds of people who say a certain power set needs fixing: One camp is the one so vehemently into the power that they want the most out of it (and have some fairly good suggestions regarding how to go about its improvement); the other is the one that barely understands the power and would rather the universe follows how they want it to be. The rest that don't fall to either camp don't bother making suggestions or critiques and just enjoy it (or not) for what it is, or don't play it at all.

[Pyriold]

Poison has really great debuffs. The problem with poison is only when you fight big mobs, the AEs are pretty small... hard to get all the mobs into them. Not at all comparable to for example Rad. While the numbers for poison maybe even better than rad, the small areas can be a problem.

 

Where poison shines is taking down single hard mobs like AVs, EBs and bosses.

[AerialAssault]

The only problem with Poison is the lack of alternate animations.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

I'm playing a Poison Defender now and it seems Very potent...what's the problem?

 

Basically what others have said - most of the AoEs are like 8', and you're either spitting on foes or tossing around the old water balloon.  It'd be nice if Alkaloid got a little AoE as well, and maybe if a power or 3 did some minor toxic DoT.

[Mr. Vee]

My feeling has always been that the complainers stay at range throwing healz 😄

[Six-Six]

40 minutes ago, AerialAssault said:

The only problem with Poison is the lack of alternate animations.

Haha. very true. I had to make my two poison toons into lizards just to reconcile the spitting in my RP head.

[ForeverLaxx]

In a game world where maximizing your AoE and blowing up spawns immediately is "the norm," Poison's very small AoEs are considered useless. Keep in mind that Poison didn't even have the tiny AoEs to start with and it was almost entirely single-target for most of its life. I believe that if they wanted to make the AoEs any larger, they'd have to nerf the power of the debuffs to compensate and I don't really want that happening.

 

Poison's niche has always been turning hard, single targets into whimpering sacks. This becomes even more potent if you're a Poison/Sonic Defender. I'd rather not lose that niche just so it can pretend to be Radiation Emission more effectively.

[Mr. Vee]

That's kind of why I find it ideal for the current state of things. The aura is plenty for normal mobs without having to muck about with the click debuffs. Can just jump in and blast. Then when you get to a hard target the clickies are there for the melting.

[Parabola]

Poison is a very weird set in my eyes. Lopsided and back to front. Most of its functionality comes in just four powers and most of the rest are totally skippable. And it gives its hard target debuffs first (for all those av fights we have at low levels...), but it makes you wait all the way to the tier 9 for its general mob debuff. No set should have that number of skippable powers or be that backloaded imo.

[Spaghetti Betty]

2 hours ago, AerialAssault said:

The only problem with Poison is the lack of alternate animations.

I agree. Needs more spitting animations. Including the rez. Let me vomit teammates to life.

[MrAxe]

No one mentioning Masterminds? On live I had Necro/Poison and that single target healing was a full time job in itself. So much fuss I've rerolled him as Demons/Thermal now.

[Attache]

Poison is a long game and by the time you are standing in the middle of mobs with (near) impunity and getting the full effect, you are also probably eyeing your next alt. 

[Major_Decoy]

On defenders Poison Trap and Venomous Gas come at 26 and 32 respectively. Up to that, every power can be used at range. As a cone, neurotoxic breath works best at range. So you get accustomed to a certain approach, and then Venomous Gas hits and all of a sudden, you want to be right up in the middle of the action.

 

If it was available at level 2 like Time's Juncture, it wouldn't be a massive shift in play style all of a sudden. It'd still be trouble, because Poison doesn't get Farsight like Time does...

 

Maybe if they replaced the single target hold with a quick recharge self-rez.

[Marshal_General]

4 hours ago, AerialAssault said:

The only problem with Poison is the lack of alternate animations.

When poison first came out, I made a character named Phlegm Fatale.

[Pzn]

3 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

In a game world where maximizing your AoE and blowing up spawns immediately is "the norm," Poison's very small AoEs are considered useless. Keep in mind that Poison didn't even have the tiny AoEs to start with and it was almost entirely single-target for most of its life. I believe that if they wanted to make the AoEs any larger, they'd have to nerf the power of the debuffs to compensate and I don't really want that happening.

 

Poison's niche has always been turning hard, single targets into whimpering sacks. This becomes even more potent if you're a Poison/Sonic Defender. I'd rather not lose that niche just so it can pretend to be Radiation Emission more effectively.

The toggle debuff in poison is the same size as the ones in radiation.  Far from useless.  Poison is much better in a world where blowing up spawns immediately is the norm because VG requires no setup time.

[The_Warpact]

Its pretty solid on MMs in PvP, PVE, not so much. Better on a defender overall imo.

[Braddack]

my Main is an Ilu Poison, and i love him to death.

 

Perfect for normal Mishions and absolute awesome against Avs and Giant Monsters

 

[arcane]

Admittedly you probably have to know how to use inspirations occasionally to make Poison awesome so that might have something to do with it. Break free if you don’t have Indomitable Will/Rune of Protection/Melee Hybrid/Clarion Destiny up, and the occasional green if you don’t have Life Drain/Aid Self/etc.. If you are using a light to modest amount of inspirations though, there’s no excuse 🙂

 

Also if you’re not playing Poison like a Scrapper you’re all sorts of noob.

Edited February 7, 2022 by arcane

[Pzn]

8 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I'm playing a Poison Defender now and it seems Very potent...what's the problem?

I think people undervalue the quick setup time.  No other set can debuff -res as quickly since one of your -res debuffs is always on while the other is quick to cast/recharge.

[Hedgefund]

I certainly wouldn't say that Poison for a Controller, Def or Corr needs help.  MM though, yeah, that could use re-evaluating.  The uptime rate for Noxious Gas (base 300 second recharge with a 20 second duration) is abysmal.  The varying strength of debuffs based on minion applied to means except for Thugs and Beast you have to either use a lower tier pet (with corresponding lower debuffs) or move a boss pet into melee that's more effective at range.

 

That said, the party trick of Noxious Gas> Gang War > Burnout > Noxious Gas on a Lt > Gang War is a hoot.  Still I'd rather have consistent debuffs like the other 3 classes. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Hedgefund

[Greycat]

I like Poison. First set I accidentally soloed an AV on.

Only things I'd like on it that I can think of off the top of my head, especially on a MM, are a faster heal (and/or make it AOE, right now it's just ... yeah...) and, as mentioned, alternate animations.

[oedipus_tex]

I have always felt Poison is one power short of great, and that on non-Masterminds the there could be improvements to the order in which powers unlock. While it's true that a few other sets wait a long time for key powers, I feel like Poison's change from being a mostly ranged to a mostly PBAoE set at level 38 isn't smooth. Moving Venomous Gas down the power tree to tier 5 or so would prepare you for what the set actually is, a risky PBAoE debuffer with no self buffs. It's fine that Poison has a unique role, but I wish it announced its intentions earlier in the build.

 

If I were going to improve Poison, I'd pick one power from the heal, rezz, or anti-mezz and give it something unique. In the past I've suggested making the heal ground targetable with a small aoe effect so Poison could drop it underfoot and self heal. As far as I'm aware there are no ground targetable heals currently in game (there are a couple of Regen or heal patches but nothing instant). It would mean Poison could use terrain to heal around corners, which isn't super powerful but is a unique thing no other set can currently do. 8ft seems to be a theme with Poison and I think that would be fine for the radius, current strength values aren't that high and cast time is long so I don't worry about the power tipping the scales too much.

 

Reducing the endurance cost of Venomous Gas would be a nice boon too.

Edited February 7, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[kiramon]

Just give me some mez protection built into VG and I'll be set, thanks.

 

Grr clarion.

[arcane]

I don’t see why getting a set defining power at T9 is unusual or bad. Just know your limits until you get to that level.

 

I hope Poison doesn’t get a self heal. That’d be a bit gimmicky. You don’t need self heal powers in this game to do well.