Procs in auto-hit powers?

[Yomo Kimyata]

I've found myself asking this or a similar question a few times in the last few days.  If a power does not accept Accuracy IOs, then I assume the power is auto-hit.  Does this mean that procs in these powers auto-hit (although don't necessarily auto-proc)?  Or is there a to-hit roll done separately for the proc (in which case, slotting some accuracy indirectly with an A/D invention set would help)?

 

I feel like there was something in patch notes about this, but I'm sure that someone else would be better able to address this.

 

The two powers I was looking at specifically were Beta Decay (which takes Accurate To-Hit/Defense Debuff) and Oil Slick Arrow.  Since one is a psuedopet, that may change things as well.

 

@Bopper?

[Glacier Peak]

Can some one link the proc chances spreadsheet already??

[Bopper]

4 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I've found myself asking this or a similar question a few times in the last few days.  If a power does not accept Accuracy IOs, then I assume the power is auto-hit.  Does this mean that procs in these powers auto-hit (although don't necessarily auto-proc)?  Or is there a to-hit roll done separately for the proc (in which case, slotting some accuracy indirectly with an A/D invention set would help)?

 

I feel like there was something in patch notes about this, but I'm sure that someone else would be better able to address this.

 

The two powers I was looking at specifically were Beta Decay (which takes Accurate To-Hit/Defense Debuff) and Oil Slick Arrow.  Since one is a psuedopet, that may change things as well.

 

@Bopper?

The thing you need to look for is if Entities Autohit. In the case of Beta Decay it does, which makes the fact it takes Accurate To-Hit/Debuff sets a bit silly. The only thing justifying it is the Taunt effect for PvP. Anyways, here is the field I'm talking about.

 

So what does that mean for procs? Most procs will get an automatic roll to see if the proc fires. The one exception is damage procs. In I27P1, damage procs were all given a ToHit roll. This was mostly a response to powers like Titan Weapons and Total Focus which were originally set to Auto-Hit as a means to ensure they always granted Momentum/Energy Focus even when you missed. However, this resulted in procs successfully hitting targets even if you missed with the redirected attack. That drove the need to make damage procs use a to-hit roll to ensure if the attack missed, so did the proc (they share the roll).

 

This later became a moot point as Activation Effect Groups were introduced which allowed the mechanics of Momentum and Energy Focus to grant even on a miss without making the attack auto-hit. Despite that, the change to damage procs remained and they still do a to-hit roll even in auto-hit powers. That change did have some good as powers like Mud Pots were now able to slot Taunt sets (perfect zinger) as the auto-hit no longer was there for the damage proc. But that was a long time ago so someone can please correct me if I'm wrong on my history of it.

[Bopper]

I'll also add, this makes the recent Sleep powers change particularly strong for some powers. For example, Frozen Aura is now auto-hit because it does sleep. But all the non-sleep effects are given a hit roll. That's fine.

 

But for your non-damage procs, that auto-hit feature means you will always get a proc roll even if the damage misses.

 

(Fury of the Gladiator and the ATO procs enjoy this)

Edited February 19, 2022 by Bopper

[UltraAlt]

On 2/18/2022 at 7:28 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

If a power does not accept Accuracy IOs, then I assume the power is auto-hit.  Does this mean that procs in these powers auto-hit (although don't necessarily auto-proc)?

 

I'll use a weid example which may seem to stretch this a bit as it does take accuracies ...  but the accuracy only counts in PVP and the power auto-hits in PVE.

I'm sure you already know power and probably what proc I'm talking about at point (with just that little hint) ... and, yes, the proc does go off and cause damage even though it is a auto-hit on PVE targets.

Edited February 22, 2022 by UltraAlt

[Yomo Kimyata]

Oddly, I noticed this today:

 

 

So the note is false, since Beta Decay does not require a to hit check.

[Bopper]

30 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

So the note is false, since Beta Decay does not require a to hit check.

The only reason why there is still a to-hit check is for the Taunt effect in pvp. But honestly, I think those enhancements should probably get removed (accurate to-hit debuff and accurate defense debuff) 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Bopper

[UltraAlt]

10 hours ago, Bopper said:

The only reason why there is still a to-hit check is for the Taunt effect in pvp.

 

And that leads to Perfect Zinger :: Chance for Psionic Damage. Taunt is auto-hit in PVE.

Perfect Zinger :: Chance for Psionic Damage turns Taunt into a Zero-END AoE Psionic attack!

 

I also put this proc in AOE, Cone, or PBAoE Taunt/Threat powers that do little to no damage.

[Bopper]

5 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

And that leads to Perfect Zinger :: Chance for Psionic Damage. Taunt is auto-hit in PVE.

Perfect Zinger :: Chance for Psionic Damage turns Taunt into a Zero-END AoE Psionic attack!

 

I also put this proc in AOE, Cone, or PBAoE Taunt/Threat powers that do little to no damage.

Damage procs still have to perform a hit check. So lack of accuracy slotting can hurt you there

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Damage procs still have to perform a hit check. So lack of accuracy slotting can hurt you there

 

Taunts are auto-hit in PVE. No hit check required.

It just has it's "chance" to go off and limited by its per minute.

 

I love seeing enemies at their last bit of health go down from a taunt.

[Bopper]

21 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Taunts are auto-hit in PVE. No hit check required.

It just has it's "chance" to go off and limited by its per minute.

 

I love seeing enemies at their last bit of health go down from a taunt.

I know taunts are auto-hit. I'm saying the damage proc will still do a hit roll. 

 

So even though the taunt is auto-hit, the proc will take the accuracy of the taunt (maybe it's enhanced, maybe not) and your global accuracy and to-hit buffs, then checks against the defense of the foe. If you successfully hit them with the proc, then a PPM calculation gets made to see if the proc does anything.

[Bopper]

This was changed in I27P1: the two things to note are screenshot below.

 

 

Because of this change to damage procs, it allowed taunt auras to now accept taunt sets.

[fancy ketchup]

Wait all taunts are auto hit or just auras?.. the fact that you can slot accuracy in taunt with ios (that arent pvp sets) led me to believe i needed accuracy. 😮  I remember slotting it on live before pvp ..

[TheZag]

All of my powers are autohit after i miss enough times.  This is how i defeat enemies.

[kiramon]

52 minutes ago, fancy ketchup said:

Wait all taunts are auto hit or just auras?.. the fact that you can slot accuracy in taunt with ios (that arent pvp sets) led me to believe i needed accuracy. 😮  I remember slotting it on live before pvp ..

The little asterisk in mids means it is auto hit but not in pvp 

[Bopper]

6 hours ago, fancy ketchup said:

Wait all taunts are auto hit or just auras?.. the fact that you can slot accuracy in taunt with ios (that arent pvp sets) led me to believe i needed accuracy. 😮  I remember slotting it on live before pvp ..

The presence pool versions require accuracy.