Ice/Dark or Ice/Cold

[Arcadian-Prime]

Hi all,

 

First off, thanks for all the suggestions in my other post. I’ve settled on trying a Corruptor, since I never played one on live!

 

I really liked the look of Water Blast, but a few people pointed out that it might not have the damage for tough single targets (AV/GM’s). Ice, however, was mentioned a lot. I’m torn between 2 combos:

 

Ice/Dark: Seems like it could have good synergy. Dark brings a heal, which is nice for Ice.

 

Ice/Cold: Seems like an obvious synergy. No heal, but a lot of control. 
 

Any opinions/suggestions on pairings or which combo to go? Kind of thinking about playing at range/hover, but not married to the idea.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by ArcadianIV

[oedipus_tex]

Two big questions I'd have is 1) How patient are you for key power unlocks and 2) Do you plan to IO?

 

 

IMO if the answer to the questions above are "Not very patient" and "No plans to IO" Dark is the clear winner. Dark Miasma gets a very strong heal as its T1, and has most of its bread and butter powers by level 20. It has its -Resist power by level 2, compared to 35/38 for Cold. Most of the powers function reasonably well with an SO or basic enhancement build.

 

Cold is the dead opposite of that. It gets its shields early, but its two most key power unlocks have to wait til levels 35 and 38 respectively. You get a strong AV debuff at level 28, probably before you really need it. On top of that, powers like Benumb and Heat Loss aren't that great out of the box. Only with excellent Recharge do they reach their potential and do some of the things you hear are great about Cold. Cold also has no self heal, so you probably need some Defense on top of that. I don't want to make Cold sound terrible, just paint a realistic picture. It's not a great set at low levels, and is only so-so at high levels until you kit it out.

 

 

All of that said, with commitment either of these characters once kitted out is an A Tier or even S Tier performer, depending on the content you bring them to. You won't go wrong with either selection, so I'd pick the one that appeals to your style most.  

[Arcadian-Prime]

2 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Two big questions I'd have is 1) How patient are you for key power unlocks and 2) Do you plan to IO?

 

 

IMO if the answer to the questions above are "Not very patient" and "No plans to IO" Dark is the clear winner. Dark Miasma gets a very strong heal as its T1, and has most of its bread and butter powers by level 20. It has its -Resist power by level 2, compared to 35/38 for Cold. Most of the powers function reasonably well with an SO or basic enhancement build.

 

Cold is the dead opposite of that. It gets its shields early, but its two most key power unlocks have to wait til levels 35 and 38 respectively. You get a strong AV debuff at level 28, probably before you really need it. On top of that, powers like Benumb and Heat Loss aren't that great out of the box. Only with excellent Recharge do they reach their potential and do some of the things you hear are great about Cold. Cold also has no self heal, so you probably need some Defense on top of that. I don't want to make Cold sound terrible, just paint a realistic picture. It's not a great set at low levels, and is only so-so at high levels until you kit it out.

 

 

All of that said, with commitment either of these characters once kitted out is an A Tier or even S Tier performer, depending on the content you bring them to. You won't go wrong with either selection, so I'd pick the one that appeals to your style most.  

This was very helpful advice, thank you. It’s been a while for me, so probably playing something with an easier leveling experience (dark) will be good.

 

I absolutely do plan to fully slot them out… once I figure out builds and sets 😂

[oedipus_tex]

Just now, ArcadianIV said:

This was very helpful advice, thank you. It’s been a while for me, so probably playing something with an easier leveling experience (dark) will be good.

 

I absolutely do plan to fully slot them out… once I figure out builds and sets 😂

 

 

Dark is much friendlier set for the newer player in my opinion. It's a great kit of abilities, and mostly easy to understand. Whenever I have a friend who is new to the game and they want to play support, its a set I push them toward. 

 

In comparison Cold is a fantastic, but very specialized set. To me it's one of the most complex kits in the game. It's complicated enough that it's hard to even explain the reasons it is good. Most players on a standard playthrough probably wouldn't pick up on it being an S-Tier set valued by players at the top end of play.

[Arcadian-Prime]

17 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

Dark is much friendlier set for the newer player in my opinion. It's a great kit of abilities, and mostly easy to understand. Whenever I have a friend who is new to the game and they want to play support, its a set I push them toward. 

 

In comparison Cold is a fantastic, but very specialized set. To me it's one of the most complex kits in the game. It's complicated enough that it's hard to even explain the reasons it is good. Most players on a standard playthrough probably wouldn't pick up on it being an S-Tier set valued by players at the top end of play.

So it seems like Cold may be better in specific scenarios, but Dark just has options for pretty much anything? Haha as a new player, the idea of having a heal is nice 

[Arcadian-Prime]

23 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

Dark is much friendlier set for the newer player in my opinion. It's a great kit of abilities, and mostly easy to understand. Whenever I have a friend who is new to the game and they want to play support, its a set I push them toward. 

 

In comparison Cold is a fantastic, but very specialized set. To me it's one of the most complex kits in the game. It's complicated enough that it's hard to even explain the reasons it is good. Most players on a standard playthrough probably wouldn't pick up on it being an S-Tier set valued by players at the top end of play.

Also, would you agree on the statement that Water Blast would be lacking in the single target damage for tough targets (AV’s), and that Ice will just be flat out better there?

[oedipus_tex]

30 minutes ago, ArcadianIV said:

Also, would you agree on the statement that Water Blast would be lacking in the single target damage for tough targets (AV’s), and that Ice will just be flat out better there?

 

 

I'm not an expert on AV solo times by any means. One thing about Water though is that a big part of its power comes from having a heal built into the set, which for me tends to mean two things:

• On sets that dont get their own heal (like Cold) it's obviously a big help to get one
• On sets that do get their own heal (like Dark) it's a power you can probably skip, earning you a power "back" in some sense

 

I do have a Dark/Water Defender and he's very good. Never really focused on his ST damage though. Water is more of an AoE set.

 

One thing Ice has that Water does not is a very, very, very good Hold power that is easily worked into attack chains. 

 

I do happen to think Water's nuke is among the best in the game, for its combo of range and burst damage, so there's that. Ice doesn't really have any burst AoE other than its cone. That another thing that leans me toward Dark/Ice, Dark has more to keep you standing upright while you wait for AoE damage to accumulate. Rightly or wrongly, I think of Ice/Cold as more of an AV slayer, albiet one that needs to find a way to stay alive in the fight.

Edited March 13, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Arcadian-Prime]

17 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I'm not an expert on AV solo times by any means. One thing about Water though is that a big part of its power comes from having a heal built into the set, which for me tends to mean two things:

• On sets that dont get their own heal (like Cold) it's obviously a big help to get one
• On sets that do get their own heal (like Dark) it's a power you can probably skip, earning you a power "back" in some sense

 

I do have a Dark/Water Defender and he's very good. Never really focused on his ST damage though. Water is more of an AoE set.

 

One thing Ice has that Water does not is a very, very, very good Hold power that is easily worked into attack chains. 

 

I do happen to think Water's nuke is among the best in the game, for its combo of range and burst damage, so there's that. Ice doesn't really have any burst AoE other than its cone. That another thing that leans me toward Dark/Ice, Dark has more to keep you standing upright while you wait for AoE damage to accumulate. Rightly or wrongly, I think of Ice/Cold as more of an AV slayer, albiet one that needs to find a way to stay alive in the fight.

Very helpful, thank you.

 

On the Ice/Dark vs Water/Dark, would you say the Ice/Dark would be a bit more optimal since the 2 heals would be redundant? Water seems to have nice knockdown, but the slows from ice and hold (now that you mention it) could work nicely with Tar Pit.

[oedipus_tex]

4 minutes ago, ArcadianIV said:

Very helpful, thank you.

 

On the Ice/Dark vs Water/Dark, would you say the Ice/Dark would be a bit more optimal since the 2 heals would be redundant? Water seems to have nice knockdown, but the slows from ice and hold (now that you mention it) could work nicely with Tar Pit.

 

 

I think all of these characters are going to be very good, so better is subjective. For a newish player determined not to repeat sets I'd probably recommend:

 

• Water/Cold
• Ice/Dark

 

Not that the opposite pairings are weak in any way. I do think Ice/Cold is a particular type of amazing end game character in the hands of a very experienced player. Like, that's a combo you see a lot on hand-picked, heavily IOed teams built for speed running the ITF. It's excellent, just very specific and probably needs more kitting out than certain other combos to break out of its initial okay-ness.

[Arcadian-Prime]

6 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I think all of these characters are going to be very good, so better is subjective. For a newish player determined not to repeat sets I'd probably recommend:

 

• Water/Cold
• Ice/Dark

 

Not that the opposite pairings are weak in any way. I do think Ice/Cold is a particular type of amazing end game character in the hands of a very experienced player. Like, that's a combo you see a lot on hand-picked, heavily IOed teams built for speed running the ITF. It's excellent, just very specific and probably needs more kitting out than certain other combos to break out of its initial okay-ness.

That is fair. I’ll probably only have the resources for one hero, so I want to go all in. Ice/Cold seems wonderful as well, the lack of a heal makes me think it won’t solo as well for tough content. BUT I could see it being the superior choice with a full team backing it up.

[StriderIV]

56 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I think all of these characters are going to be very good, so better is subjective. For a newish player determined not to repeat sets I'd probably recommend:

 

• Water/Cold
• Ice/Dark

 

Not that the opposite pairings are weak in any way. I do think Ice/Cold is a particular type of amazing end game character in the hands of a very experienced player. Like, that's a combo you see a lot on hand-picked, heavily IOed teams built for speed running the ITF. It's excellent, just very specific and probably needs more kitting out than certain other combos to break out of its initial okay-ness.

So I have a Water/Cold myself and I can attest that /Cold can completely help break an AV. I’m wondering if Ice/Cold would have been better, but I do like the heal Water Blast brings. Ice/Dark seems like it could be a bit of “best of both worlds” scenario.

[kelika2]

ice/dark

dark pit + rains is fun at all levels

[StriderIV]

37 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

ice/dark

dark pit + rains is fun at all levels

You think it has a better synergy than Sleet + Whirlpool?

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, StriderIV said:

You think it has a better synergy than Sleet + Whirlpool?

after

ice/storm

fire/storm

water/storm

fire/dark

fire/trick

ice/dark

and water/dark i cant even anymore.  i just like snare pits and rains

[Uun]

Nobody has mentioned it, but IMO the combo for ST damage vs. AVs is Beam/Cold. On top of the -500% regen in Benumb, you can stack another -225% from Disintegrate and Single Shot. And Piercing Beam stacks another -15% resist on top of the -30% in Sleet and -24% in Heat Loss. I have this combo on a defender and it's just sick.

[StriderIV]

6 hours ago, kelika2 said:

after

ice/storm

fire/storm

water/storm

fire/dark

fire/trick

ice/dark

and water/dark i cant even anymore.  i just like snare pits and rains

You are a hero of taste =P

[Doomguide2005]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:15 PM, Arcadian-Prime said:

Hi all,

 

First off, thanks for all the suggestions in my other post. I’ve settled on trying a Corruptor, since I never played one on live!

 

I really liked the look of Water Blast, but a few people pointed out that it might not have the damage for tough single targets (AV/GM’s). Ice, however, was mentioned a lot. I’m torn between 2 combos:

 

Ice/Dark: Seems like it could have good synergy. Dark brings a heal, which is nice for Ice.

 

Ice/Cold: Seems like an obvious synergy. No heal, but a lot of control. 
 

Any opinions/suggestions on pairings or which combo to go? Kind of thinking about playing at range/hover, but not married to the idea.

 

 

For me I've done this with both a Cold/Ice Defender and an Ice/Dark Corruptor and this is one of those times when I can absolutely say we got 1000+ slots they're both quite strong and fun the hard part is not which to build but which to do first.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Doomguide2005
Typos

[Without_Pause]

Ice Blast is better on a Corr due to the DoT nature of Ice working with Scourge. I will point out, however, Defenders do get a ATO proc for PBAoE Heal and Absorb. Power Transfer can be 2-slotted for 6% Regen and one being Chance for Self Heal. So going Cold/ice isn't as risky on a Defender if someone has that issue with the combo.