Trying to work out a Sentinel

[Redletter]

So, in my revisting classes I was like 'ill pass' as my understanding of game mechanics grow, I think it's high time I give the Sentinel another shot. I got a fire/fire sent to like, 14 and dropped them, since they werent dealing the damage i needed them to be dealing compared to the damage I was taking, and the agro I was drawing.

 

Im thinking of doing a Duelies/SR Sent. I figured I'd just make as straight forward a character as i could for like, what I imagine is the sorta 'quintessential' experience for the class. But I have no idea how functional this is, since Duelies, from my understanding, see most of their damage from procs and their debuffs don't really get to be impressive on a sentinel? I don't really know.

 

If you were to reccomend the sentinel to someone who enjoys tankers, defenders, and stalkers, what build what you recommend to them?

[Errants]

I've ran a Beam/EnA and Dark/SR up to 50 through content... The Beam was a hover-blasting robot, the Dark was in melee constantly.

 

Beam/ is useful for the extra AoE vs blast sets, and debuffing from Disintegrate.
Dark/ with a /Defense really felt like a Scapper who could blast if they wanted... but, why?

 

Both very fun, both enjoyable.

Currently leveling an Elec/Regen - lowbie for now, but seems it'll play much more like the Dark/SR.

Essentially, try whatever... especially those sets that are different (Pri/Sec) from their incarnations as traditional blasts or armors.

[oldskool]

7 hours ago, Redletter said:

But I have no idea how functional this is, since Duelies, from my understanding, see most of their damage from procs and their debuffs don't really get to be impressive on a sentinel? I don't really know.

 

If you were to reccomend the sentinel to someone who enjoys tankers, defenders, and stalkers, what build what you recommend to them?

 

The entire AT sees most of its damage from procs. By Duelies, do you mean Dual Pistols? I'll assume this is a yes. 

Dual Pistols on the Sentinel has a lower scale on debuffs, similar to Blasters but with some minor exceptions, but keeps its DPS scale on Incendiary Ammo. If you're looking to make the most out of Swap Ammo and try out various debuffs, then the Sentinel is not the best AT for this. That would be the Defender. 

The Sentinel does have a unique range buff in its Cold Ammo which is something, I guess. Chemical Ammo brings a minor damage debuff to enemies, but I've never bothered with it on mine. Fire Ammo adds a minor damage over time that is the only source of additional damage out of the lot. At least, this is barring calculations on benefits of Standard Ammo which only perform defense debuffs, knockdown/back, and resistance debuff in specific attacks. 

Standard Ammo starts to fall off damage potential later on. The defense debuff becomes less important when you're running high to-hit and accuracy. The resistance debuff is tied to Piercing Rounds which is overshadowed by using procs in Suppressive Fire and Executioner's Shot. Therefore, the fire element becomes the sole means of increased damage since Cold and Chem are defensive benefits (which the Sentinel doesn't really need). 

Dual Pistols on Sentinels brings a changed Suppressive Fire which turns the gameplay into a higher actions per minute style. You can effectively run 3 powers all under 2 seconds of animation vs builds with Piercing Rounds that get that 2.64 second animation in one power. This means the longest animating attack you actively use is Hail of Bullets which at least comes with a 10% additive defensive buff to all 3 positions while it goes off. 

Damage-wise, a lot of Sentinels take a while to really shine and take off. The AT itself is sadly very backloaded. It is highly dependent on absurd levels of recharge to make its inherent functional (as it was intended) or heavily reliant on proc effects to bolster its damage. Furthermore, Sentinel builds get a lot out of epic holds using procs for micro-nuke single-target DPS. 

In other words, any Stalker you make can feel really good out the box. You could stack full set bonuses with a competent build plan and do very well with it. You likely won't touch someone optimizing to the gills, but the general gameplay loop doesn't really require it. If your perspective on damage is that Stalkers feel right, then you will not get this out of a Sentinel until you've stacked proc damage, run Alpha Musculature, potentially abuse procced holds, and have other full Incarnates. It takes a lot more work for Sentinels to tread water than it takes your average Stalker to roll their face on a keyboard. 

If you're looking at the debuffs to tinker with, then go for it. However, Defenders do it better. A Sentinel's resistance debuff on Piercing Rounds yields 9~% effect. A Defender's is 20%. Corruptors and Blasters both have 15%. Defenders can compound this with primaries that also introduce more resistance debuffs. I do this with my Dark/Dual Pistols Defender and Dual Pistols/Traps Corruptor. 

Tankers are just beef bois and girls. Their recent damage increase, combined with some the innate scaling of melee powers, will make them feel better than the average low-level Sentinel. Similar to the Stalker, a Tanker doesn't require much to feel comfortable with. A Sentinel, if DPS is the only metric that matters here, has to do a lot more and play much closer to perfect than the other options. 

All that said, I still consider my Dual Pistols/Super Reflexes Sentinel more or less my main. It is a very fun AT, to me at least, despite its limitations. I think a key takeaway here is that understand the limitations and embrace the fun. If DPS races are your definition of "fun" (not assuming this is true but stating very very broadly), then perhaps the Sentinel isn't for you. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by oldskool

[Redletter]

14 hours ago, oldskool said:

 

The entire AT sees most of its damage from procs. By Duelies, do you mean Dual Pistols? I'll assume this is a yes. 

Dual Pistols on the Sentinel has a lower scale on debuffs, similar to Blasters but with some minor exceptions, but keeps its DPS scale on Incendiary Ammo. If you're looking to make the most out of Swap Ammo and try out various debuffs, then the Sentinel is not the best AT for this. That would be the Defender. 

I knew about the blaster tier numbers on debuffs, but I didnt know they got the blaster numbers on fire ammo! That's good to know.

14 hours ago, oldskool said:

The Sentinel does have a unique range buff in its Cold Ammo which is something, I guess. Chemical Ammo brings a minor damage debuff to enemies, but I've never bothered with it on mine. Fire Ammo adds a minor damage over time that is the only source of additional damage out of the lot. At least, this is barring calculations on benefits of Standard Ammo which only perform defense debuffs, knockdown/back, and resistance debuff in specific attacks. 

Standard Ammo starts to fall off damage potential later on. The defense debuff becomes less important when you're running high to-hit and accuracy. The resistance debuff is tied to Piercing Rounds which is overshadowed by using procs in Suppressive Fire and Executioner's Shot. Therefore, the fire element becomes the sole means of increased damage since Cold and Chem are defensive benefits (which the Sentinel doesn't really need). 

Dual Pistols on Sentinels brings a changed Suppressive Fire which turns the gameplay into a higher actions per minute style. You can effectively run 3 powers all under 2 seconds of animation vs builds with Piercing Rounds that get that 2.64 second animation in one power. This means the longest animating attack you actively use is Hail of Bullets which at least comes with a 10% additive defensive buff to all 3 positions while it goes off. 

That's a lot of numbers and words my potato brain doesnt understand entirely, but it sounds important and good!

14 hours ago, oldskool said:

Damage-wise, a lot of Sentinels take a while to really shine and take off. The AT itself is sadly very backloaded. It is highly dependent on absurd levels of recharge to make its inherent functional (as it was intended) or heavily reliant on proc effects to bolster its damage. Furthermore, Sentinel builds get a lot out of epic holds using procs for micro-nuke single-target DPS. 

In other words, any Stalker you make can feel really good out the box. You could stack full set bonuses with a competent build plan and do very well with it. You likely won't touch someone optimizing to the gills, but the general gameplay loop doesn't really require it. If your perspective on damage is that Stalkers feel right, then you will not get this out of a Sentinel until you've stacked proc damage, run Alpha Musculature, potentially abuse procced holds, and have other full Incarnates. It takes a lot more work for Sentinels to tread water than it takes your average Stalker to roll their face on a keyboard. 

My keyboard and I have a very intimate relationship and he says Im a great kisser. But besides that, I kinda like stalkers for how easy the flow of play goes, hence why I figured duelies/sr appealed to me, since duel pistols and super reflexes as both things i really liked.

14 hours ago, oldskool said:

If you're looking at the debuffs to tinker with, then go for it. However, Defenders do it better. A Sentinel's resistance debuff on Piercing Rounds yields 9~% effect. A Defender's is 20%. Corruptors and Blasters both have 15%. Defenders can compound this with primaries that also introduce more resistance debuffs. I do this with my Dark/Dual Pistols Defender and Dual Pistols/Traps Corruptor. 

Yeah, I know the numbers are smaller. I was like... when I say 'oh debuffs are fun' i just mean in general, not just like 'man i LOVE having HUGE debuffs, i NEED HUGE debuffs to have fun' because that's not the case. Still, it makes me wonder like... WHAT precisely the Sent. is supposed to do, since like, they dont get Tanker numbers on defense, they dont get blaster numbers of blaster, of debuff numbers of defenders, or even corruptor.

14 hours ago, oldskool said:

Tankers are just beef bois and girls. Their recent damage increase, combined with some the innate scaling of melee powers, will make them feel better than the average low-level Sentinel. Similar to the Stalker, a Tanker doesn't require much to feel comfortable with. A Sentinel, if DPS is the only metric that matters here, has to do a lot more and play much closer to perfect than the other options.

DPS certainly isnt the metric. When I look at a sentinel I see a ranged character, who's like, got the staying power of a tanker. That's probably not FUNCTIONALLY true, but like, I enjoy SR because it lets me NOT die super hard, and I like duelies because theyre cool they have a very 'complete' and interesting kit. Plus the character concept fits best this way

14 hours ago, oldskool said:

All that said, I still consider my Dual Pistols/Super Reflexes Sentinel more or less my main. It is a very fun AT, to me at least, despite its limitations. I think a key takeaway here is that understand the limitations and embrace the fun. If DPS races are your definition of "fun" (not assuming this is true but stating very very broadly), then perhaps the Sentinel isn't for you. 

I hate DPS races, actually, but I hate them a lot less than like... dying a lot because Im not out damaging mobs, which was the inpotence of me dropping the class in the first place.

 

So far, this combo is a lot better, so far.

[Errants]

Less Tanker, more Stalker but no crits and ranged.