Optimizing Electric/Psi for all-out damage

[Onlyasandwich]

Edit: Modified slotting a bit.

Edit again: More fiddling with slots.

 

After completing my recent Seismic/Earth Blaster and having a uh - blast, I'm ready to return to the land of doms. : )

 

I know that Electric/Psi is a favorite of @oedipus_tex, and I'd like to try my hand at this combo with my own approach. 

 

I recently built a Plant/Fiery that eschewed all defense, instead relying on the soft controls and of course very powerful Confuse. I see that Electric also has a solid confuse, and would like to see if a similar feat is possible with this combo.

 

Goals:

• Damage damage damage! As with my plant/fiery, I'm slotting the uniques, but otherwise ignoring defense bonuses entirely, even the juicy low-hanging bonuses. This is a very proc-heavy build.
• Both good aoe and single target chain. I want to be able to blast almost non-stop in either scenario. 
• Recharge immunity, or near. It's a personal thing, but I really like it, especially on doms.
• Perma-dom of course. I'm okay relying on hasten, and have achieved a good pad in this build.

 

Elements I am uncertain on in the current iteration:

• It would be nice to have room for proper slotting on Psi Dart - it seems pretty okay for a T1. Is ignoring it a dumb move? It looks like I'll have a really solid chain between my melee powers and Psi lance.
• Jolting Chain doesn't seem all that hot to me given the other controls at play - am I wrong?
• I've picked up Psy Scream, which I know plenty of folks hate. It works pretty well procced out, and combat teleport will allow quick usage. Do you see a better way to round out aoes?
• Drain Psyche slotting. I ignored end slotting here. Is this silly? There are many ways to approach slotting this power.
• Chain Fences - here I've gone with the orb proc. However, maybe I won't be spamming chain as much as I might the immob in other builds, given the nature of Static Field. Does it get much play in your elec? If I'm not cycling it much, I could siphon the orb to a slot elsewhere.
• How effective is the buildup proc in Gremlins? People seem to be a bit down on the damage potential for these little fellows, and maybe it's lower value here than in most pets.

 

Anticipated playstyle:

• Open with Synaptic, Combat Teleport in, Fold Space, Drain psyche, Static Field self-cast, Psy wave, Ball Lightning, TP back for scream, TP back to mob for continued sapping/pbaoes/ST burn down.
• If in longer/more difficult encounter, keep spamming chain fences and static field to sap. May take a few cycles, but shouldn't take too long to get to zero.

 

As always, I'd love your input! I'm sure there is much optimization to be had, and perhaps some fundamental flaws in my logic.

 

The build:

 

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Dominator
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(25), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(25), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Chain Fences -- SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(3), SynSck-EndMod(3), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(50), SynSck-Dam/Rech(50), SprDmnGrs-Rchg/Fiery Orb(50)
Level 4: Mind Probe -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), TchofDth-Dam%(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46), Hct-Dam%(48), GldStr-%Dam(48)
Level 6: Telekinetic Thrust -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Rchg(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(43), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(43)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- SynSck-EndMod(A), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(9), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(9), SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(11), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(31)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Static Field -- SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(13), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(37)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(15), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(15), Ksm-ToHit+(40)
Level 16: Psychic Scream -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(17), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(17), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), PstBls-Dam%(31), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(31)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(A), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(19), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(21), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(21), UnbCns-Dam%(23)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- DS:DSyncHealAcc(A), DS:DSyncHealRech(23), DS:DSyncHealRech(34)
Level 22: Combat Teleport -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(A), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(27), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(27), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(29), CrcPrs-Conf%(29)
Level 28: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 30: Teleport -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 32: Gremlins -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34)
Level 35: Psionic Lance -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36), StnoftheM-Dam%(36), GldJvl-Dam%(37), Apc-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), ScrDrv-Dam%(39), Obl-%Dam(39), Erd-%Dam(40), Arm-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- GldArm-End/Res(A), GldArm-ResDam(42), GldArm-3defTpProc(42), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), JvlVll-Dam%(45), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46), PstBls-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Fold Space -- DS:DSyncThreatAccRech(A), DS:DSyncThreatAccRech(48)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[oedipus_tex]

Good timing. 🙂I'm in the middle of updating my Elec/Psi build again. It's a fun, strange combo that plays unlike few other things in the game. 

 

 

 

It would be nice to have room for proper slotting on Psi Dart - it seems pretty okay for a T1. Is ignoring it a dumb move? It looks like I'll have a really solid chain between my melee powers and Psi lance.

 

Personally I never touch Psi Dart unless for some reason I'm fighting at range. The occasional AV fight, etc. I do slot it for set bonuses and it sits on my bar, but you'll rarely see me touch it.

 

 

 

Jolting Chain doesn't seem all that hot to me given the other controls at play - am I wrong?

 

 

I want to play with it again and see what I think of it on a different build. I've had this power at various times, dropped it at other times. Mids suggests with procs it deals an average 181 damage per cast. That's more than Psionic Tornado slotted for damage with 2 procs. But in practice it didn't feel that way to me in the actual game. It's possible the pseudo pets don't trigger procs the way Mids predicts. If the animation was fast I'd be much quicker to grab it, currently I don't have it in the build.

 

I do think it's an okay power on Controllers though. 

 

 

 

I've picked up Psy Scream, which I know plenty of folks hate. It works pretty well procced out, and combat teleport will allow quick usage. Do you see a better way to round out aoes?

 

If you can make it work, it's not a terrible power. Dominator cones in general are always a complex subject. Psy Scream is slow animating, but they're all like that. It's funny, a big reason people don't like cones isn't just that they're cones, it's that they're all soooo slooooow.

 

 

 

Drain Psyche slotting. I ignored end slotting here. Is this silly? There are many ways to approach slotting this power.

 

Yes, ignore Endurance slotting. That's typical. You'll easily cap endurance, you want to maximize three things:

• Recharge
• Healing
• Accuracy

You need the Accuracy because in addition to the buff you get from it, this power also debuffs AV Regen. The debuff is huge: -500%. And it's an AoE, if you can get the AVs close enough together! 

 

I didn't math out your hit chances with it. Slotting may be okay if you're okay with your chances after factoring in Tactics. 

 

 

Chain Fences - here I've gone with the orb proc. However, maybe I won't be spamming chain as much as I might the immob in other builds, given the nature of Static Field. Does it get much play in your elec? If I'm not cycling it much, I could siphon the orb to a slot elsewhere.

 

Chain Fences is one of the best immobilizes IMO and the one most justified to spam. It does -10% Endurance drain per cast at base. I slot it for Accuracy, Damage, and Endurance mod using the new End Mod sets. I spam it constantly when solo. If stuff ends up positioned badly because of it I'll hoover them in with Fold Space, which I see you took. 

 

 

How effective is the buildup proc in Gremlins? People seem to be a bit down on the damage potential for these little fellows, and maybe it's lower value here than in most pets.

 

You're going to hear a lot of different takes on Gremlins. At the level of difficulty I typically play at Gremlins last like 5 seconds. They seem especially good at aggroing nearby packs before they go though. My current build does not include Gremlins. They are an okay power to pick up when you are leveling up and not yet kitted out; they do help a lot against small easy-ish packs and can help you save on endurance. They're trash at x8+4 against anything though, IMO easily the least consequential Control set pet as difficulty rises.

 

 

 

Other stuff

• If you're going to go Mu, I recommend taking Power Sink. It's sick on an Electric Control build. Disgustingly fun. Run up to any Elite Boss, Drain Psyche > Power Sink > spam immobilize. EBs aren't quite as disabled by this technique now as they used to be, but its still funny. Power Sink is autohit so you don't need anything in it but some recharge and maybe endurance mod.
• I would look for some ways to increase Defense where you can. Electric Control is notorious for attracting a lot of aggro. Personally I do this by slotting x6 of the Dom ATO with the damage proc into Static Field for the Ranged defense. I spam Static Field constantly. It's my opener, my closer, my mid battle move. Damage proc stays at 2 stacks. Not as good as sets that 3 stack it more often but I'm willing to trade it in this case. Less effective on teams and AV fights to do it this way, though.
• I would not put a damage proc in Synaptic Overload. Not worth it IMO. The power doesn't alert enemies and it recharges very fast, around 20 seconds. There's not a ton of content that calls for it, but Electric Control is an amazing discrete Confuser on the handful of missions that can be gamed that way. Putting the 6th piece of Coercive there will give you another +5 Ranged defense.
• Your Mind Probe slotting is hot. I may need to copy it. 
• Except for moments when you can Power Sink, expect a lot of frustration with the "sapper" role until the incarnate levels. You just won't have the slots until very late in the game. Things take a dramatic turn once you can access the Alpha Musculature that adds additional Endurance Mod beyond the curve. That End Mod alpha will increase the End Mod of Electric Fences and Conductive Aura to -20% per cast/tick, increase the Endurance you get back from Drain Psyche, and make Power Sink that much sicker. It's one of those unlocks that feels like it takes forever but you really feel when you get there, so don't get too worried if it doesn't feel like it will happen. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[oedipus_tex]

There's one other thing I want to say about soloing on Electric Control, I don't know if anyone else has this perception as well.

 

Part of the reason I like it is because after a battle has gone on for a while, there is this incredibly eerie silence that sometimes happens towards the end of battles as enemies succumb to endurance drain/sleep. It's a big contrast with other Dominators, who tend to show their power with loud crashes and bodies flopping around and people staggering around stunned. With Electric, you sometimes reach this point in the fight where the game gets extremely quiet and the enemies can do nothing but wait for their doom. It's this sublime stillness that I've never experienced with another set. One of those amazing touches in the differences between Dominator playstyles and I really enjoy it (other times, I prefer "the world is ending" feel of Earth Control.) 

[Onlyasandwich]

Thank you for the detailed thoughts, @oedipus_tex!

 

I was considering Power Sink, but am not sure how committed I am to the sapping strat, and how much I'll need to rely on it for survival.  The recharge seems a bit on the slow side, but addressable. Maybe I drop Gremlins entirely and pick it up with a good set? Sapping on other ATs has proven somewhat of a janky thing to rely on as a primary survival strategy. My thoughts on this combo were to use it as a  "we'll eventually get there while doing other things if the content is hard enough" sort of thing. A secondary soft control that helps stabilize tough situations if it takes longer to wear down a mob.

 

I totally read you on the +defense bonuses I missed here. Honestly it's partly a personal challenge these days to try control builds that avoid defense. I'd love to really test the limits of how much I can rely on the confuse. Fair point on the damage proc, though I'm inclined to try it out. I like to sneak in damage on things I'm cycling constantly anyhow. It adds up nicely. 

 

Most everything is maxed out against +4's for acc, though Drain Psyche is slightly shy at ~93%. I'm okay with this considering Alpha shifts, outside buffs, and other things to get me there. Chain Fences is also short, at only ~85%. Again I think I'm okay with this considering I'll have the extra level shift in tougher content to bring it up to max.

 

Maybe I should just play with Jolting Chain while leveling up to see for myself. I could always put it through @Carnifax's parser to see how it really stacks up.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

4 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I didn't math out your hit chances with it.

One little trick if you haven't done so already. In Mids, go to Options > Configuration > Exemping and base values. Change base ToHit to 39 and now your hit chances on mouseover will be accurate for +4's. It would be 48 if you want against +3's instead.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[Carnifax]

13 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Maybe I should just play with Jolting Chain while leveling up to see for myself. I could always put it through @Carnifax's parser to see how it really stacks up.

Just be aware that Jolting is a weird mix of direct attack and Pseudopets. Which means logging-wise some procs will be at the top level (not linked to Jolting in the logs) and others a subpower of the pseudopets. 

 

Seems to me in some quick Council tests I did that the initial procs are higher than I expected and the "sub" procs less for some reason. Maybe one of the chains is actually logging as a "top level" power rather than Chained Jolts or something because these numbers seem to suggest Explosive and Glads went off more than expected. And way less than expected in the subpowers.

 

Here's a few "slices" of the Table View taking out the Jolting subpowers and procs (note the Forced Feedback will also be partially from Fissure since this is an Elec/Poison/Earth controller; Forced Feedback probably isn't worth it in Jolting)

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Carnifax

[oedipus_tex]

8 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

One little trick if you haven't done so already. In Mids, go to Options > Configuration > Exemping and base values. Change base ToHit to 39 and now your hit chances on mouseover will be accurate for +4's. It would be 48 if you want against +3's instead.

 

 

Yeah that's an excellent trick. I do use it, but I've also had a bug in Mids recently where it gets stuck and I have to delete all my settings to reload it. So I have to reset that setting every time. Sometimes I'm just too lazy. 🙂

 

 

13 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

I totally read you on the +defense bonuses I missed here. Honestly it's partly a personal challenge these days to try control builds that avoid defense. I'd love to really test the limits of how much I can rely on the confuse. Fair point on the damage proc, though I'm inclined to try it out. I like to sneak in damage on things I'm cycling constantly anyhow. It adds up nicely. 

 

I hear you. Finding a balance between Defense and proc damage while retaining enough Recharge for permadom is something I find very hard on Dominator builds. This partly extends from lived experience with rolling with Defense and without Defense. If I could afford it, I'd have two builds with each of them, one the "careful" armored build and the other the all-out offensive build.

 

I once ran a Electric/Psi on a farm-ish map for many days with 40 versus 45 Ranged defense. The difference was telling. I ended up rolling a lowish damage but heavily armored version using the Psi APP because even if I could squeeze out a lot more damage, DPS while running back from the hospital is zero. To say nothing of how much of a set back it is to get knocked out of Domination mode and have to rebuild meter with no mezz protection (unless you built to cover that hole). 

 

Your build overall is hot and if I do a secondary build will probably copy a lot of it. I've wanted a "aggressive sapper" version of the Elec/Psi/Psi version I've been running for a while.

 

There also might be some hybrid version of this where I could drop some of the Slash/Lethal/Melee defense to pick up some additional damage in a semi-tradeoff. You're doing a lot more damage than my current set up, which I knew was a step down in damage when I rolled it with safety in mind, but seeing you doing twice as much damage with Psychic Shockwave is a clarifying moment. 🙂 Also, stuff like the ITF doesn't really need redundant mezz protection. That's mainly from bad experiences with Arachnos, Longbow, Carnival etc.

 

Here's the current target "safety build" I run most of the time. I say "target" because none of my builds ever actually seems to be complete, I move to the next toon too quickly to finish slotting most of the time.

 

Ranged Defense is 40 because of Destiny Barrier covering the remaining 5. I know in theory I should be able to just eat a Purple, but lived experience at x8+4 has made me very cautious.

 

 

 

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(3), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(3), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(5)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Mind Probe -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(11), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Hct-Dam%(15)
Level 4: Telekinetic Thrust -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(19), GldStr-%Dam(19)
Level 6: Chain Fences -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A), PwrTrns-Dam/Acc/Rech/End(21), PwrTrns-EndMod(21), PwrTrns-Dam/Rech(23), PwrTrns-Dam/EndMod(23), PwrTrns-Dam/Acc/End(25)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- SynSck-EndMod(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(25), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(27)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 12: Static Field -- SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(A), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(29), SprAscoft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(31), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(31)
Level 14: Teleport Target -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Combat Teleport -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel(48)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Hold(33), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(33), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- DS:DSyncHealRech(A), DS:DSyncHealAcc(34), DS:DSyncHealRech(34)
Level 22: Boxing -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(34), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(36)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CrcPrs-Conf%(A), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(37), CrcPrs-Conf(37), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(37), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(39), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(39)
Level 30: Fold Space -- DS:DSyncThreatAccRech(A)
Level 32: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 35: Psionic Lance -- StnoftheM-Dam%(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(40), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(40), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apc-Dam%(42)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Obl-Dmg(43), Obl-Acc/Rchg(43), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(43), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 41: Link Minds -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 44: Psionic Tornado -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(46), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(46), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(48), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(48)
Level 47: Indomitable Will -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Mind Over Body -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), UnbGrd-ResDam(50), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(9)
Level 49: Quick Form 
------------

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[oedipus_tex]

14 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

Just be aware that Jolting is a weird mix of direct attack and Pseudopets. Which means logging-wise some procs will be at the top level (not linked to Jolting in the logs) and others a subpower of the pseudopets. 

 

Seems to me in some quick Council tests I did that the initial procs are higher than I expected and the "sub" procs less for some reason. Maybe one of the chains is actually logging as a "top level" power rather than Chained Jolts or something because these numbers seem to suggest Explosive and Glads went off more than expected. And way less than expected in the subpowers.

 

Here's a few "slices" of the Table View taking out the Jolting subpowers and procs (note the Forced Feedback will also be partially from Fissure since this is an Elec/Poison/Earth controller; Forced Feedback probably isn't worth it in Jolting)

 

 

 

Great work Carnifax.

 

I suspect the reason subchains don't proc like expected is because even though they are "single target" in theory, they are actually mini AoEs with a 15ft radius and target cap of 1. Thats how they "find" their target. I'm no expert at calculating area factor and proc chances, but since the first target is being hit by a true single target blast but the chains are technically AoEs that could account for the difference.

[Carnifax]

1 minute ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

Great work Carnifax.

 

I suspect the reason subchains don't proc like expected is because even though they are "single target" in theory, they are actually mini AoEs with a 15ft radius and target cap of 1. Thats how they "find" their target. I'm no expert at calculating area factor and proc chances, but since the first target is being hit by a true single target blast but the chains are technically AoEs that could account for the difference.

Oooooh. This makes sense. 

 

I'm pondering how to "link" procs back to their parent for the "top level" ones, because they irk the crap out of me too. I'll fiddle with the parse locally and see if I can come up with something which will consistently work. The trick is deciding where I need to stick a wee "This was the last direct power" variable which the following proc logs can then use and be associated with. Can't be damage, maybe can be hit (I'll need to check things like Flash Arrow)

[oedipus_tex]

I have an arc I created as a side project called Herodrome: The Super Super Superhero Show that's built with chaos in mind. I really intended it for teams, but sometimes I run it when I want a manageable but keeps-me-on-my toes mission to run. 

 

The trash mobs are mostly Energy/Martial Artists and reasonably handled. The ambushes are Staff/Gravity Control toons who summon Singularities. A design decision of this arc is that a lot of enemies summon pets, but the summoners themselves tend to be minion level, making it conceivable to handle them in a variety of ways. Mission objectives are straightforward: smash the trash mobs, meet the "celebrity contestants" (they will show up as bosses in episode 4) blow up the cars, and deal with the ambushes that result, and get to the end and defeat the special "gold" enemies with Titan Weapon attacks.

 

Anyway, I filmed an attempt at x8+4 this morning with Elec/Psi/Psi and I think it shows some what you can expect out of this combo in a variety of scenarios like direct approach, heavy ambushes, and odd map geometry. I have fat fingers and am a nervous player and I definitely wiffed on a few moves. My opener on the first mob is terrible and I should have paid heavily for it. Drain Pysche is absolutely carrying me through this as you will see. You might be also see that one of the biggest threats to me is that a mob ends up too far spread out and the pot shot damage they hurl becomes dangerous. And watch for the eerie pockets of silence that can happen playing Electric Control. There are a few quiet moments in this video that show what I mean.

 

My death at the end of this one is where you can see exactly how fast you can drop on a Dominator even with decent Defense. I got flumoxed by the map layout, and foolishly charged in. Instead I should probably have summoned a sleep patch under me and tried to yoink them onto it, or else pulled. Electric Control has a real weakness for dealing with alphas when mobs are spread out, and they definitely punished me for being foolish and charging in without setting up the assault.

 

There's absolute nothing about this mission that is representative of the "core" game. I built it as something to take teams on occasionally when they want to run something that deviates from the core but is still reasonably straightforward.

 

Some highlights come at around 7:20 when the first wave of ambushes arrived (caught me unprepared TBH but it worked out okay) and the hallway approach at 12:45 which I was very nervous about but pulled off. Then my death in the final moments due to phoning in my opening salvo.

 

This is Arc ID 30937 if you ever want to try it.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Onlyasandwich]

Nice demo, @oedipus_tex, and thank you for the data as always, @Carnifax! It definitely looks like Jolting is best approached as a control power first, and a single target proc damage power second, with the added bonus of a little extra proc here and there on the chain part. The latter is of less use here on a dom given the longish animation and lack of proc diversity.

 

I'm glad you're finding some of the slotting strategies here useful inspiration, Tex! 

 

I think doms are a great example of the real trade-off involved in heavily proccing powers, as there is a world of difference between the strong safety provided by your defense focus and the extra damage in my current build. There are definitely some ATs that sacrifice less when proccing (Tanks generally speaking, certain Defenders to a degree) because of the baseline strength of their survival tools. Doms on the other hand have to scrabble together every layer they can get their hands on to mitigate gaps in their control.

 

In my case, I'm happy enough to play my doms "high stress style" and eat dirt when I stumble. The upside is that sweet feeling of total control and obliterating damage when everything is ringing right. Honestly the Plant/Fire you helped me optimize earlier works really well from this perspective, and I rarely eat dirt. I'm hoping Synaptic stacks up favorably to Seeds to enable a similar experience, but perhaps I am overestimating it.

 

I modified the build in OP just a little, and did take your advice regarding removing the damage proc from Synaptic. I'm really pleased with how this is looking! Next step is to solidify the right character concept to embody it. Keeping the Gremlins for now to see how I like them - might swap for Power Sink later down the road depending.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[oedipus_tex]

37 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

In my case, I'm happy enough to play my doms "high stress style" and eat dirt when I stumble. The upside is that sweet feeling of total control and obliterating damage when everything is ringing right. Honestly the Plant/Fire you helped me optimize earlier works really well from this perspective, and I rarely eat dirt. I'm hoping Synaptic stacks up favorably to Seeds to enable a similar experience, but perhaps I am overestimating it.

 

 

Unfortunately Synaptic is not in the same class as Seeds. It has some nice aspects and some detracting aspects.

 

In Synaptic's favor, it's non-notify, so you can cast it without alerting mobs. That said, it's not my usual opener. It can be if you like, though.

 

Four big things work against Synaptic:

 

1) It's slow. Waiting for it to confuse a whole group takes about 10 seconds. Needless say teams arent going to wait for it to propogate

 

2) It doesn't Dominate anything beyond the first target. This is egregious and I consider it a bug. The technical reason is that it uses pseudo pets to propagate its Confuse. But other powers use pseudo pets and they do Dominate (e.g. Dark Control's Shadow Field). 

 

3) It won't chain to enemies who are already Confused. This means you can't create a safety layer of control by stacking up multiple casts. Worse, Contagious Confusion can actually interfere with it chaining if fighting small enough groups.

 

4) The big one. If it misses the first target, you get a critical failure and the power fails entirely. This is an aspect of Electric Control that drives some people away from the set entirely.

 

 

Still, it's an AoE Confusion power that is non-notify, Scale 15 (Seeds is Scale 20 but 15 is still good) on 60 Recharge. It's okay. Definitely not Seeds, though.

[Onlyasandwich]

39 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Still, it's an AoE Confusion power that is non-notify, Scale 15 (Seeds is Scale 20 but 15 is still good) on 60 Recharge. It's okay. Definitely not Seeds, though.

All this is really useful context. The confused avoidant behavior is especially terrible. I was hoping that contagious confusion proc would help mitigate the lack of domination, allowing it to stack on bosses, but if the proc hits first, that's a no-go! What a weird power.

 

Do you know how many targets it can ultimately chain to?

Edited March 21, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, Onlyasandwich said:

All this is really useful context. The confused avoidant behavior is especially terrible. I was hoping that contagious confusion proc would help mitigate the lack of domination, allowing it to stack on bosses, but if the proc hits first, that's a no-go! What a weird power.

 

Do you know how many targets it can ultimately chain to?

 

If I recall correctly the power spreads like a binary tree. Basically, the first cast summons 2 pets who summons 2 pets who summons 2 pets. Like this:

 

 

 

Each pet that gets summoned casts a 15ft sphere power. If there's an enemy in range that qualifies, two new pets are summoned, and they in turn seek out nearby victims.

 

The delay on each jump is 2 seconds for the first pet summoned, then 4 seconds for the second. Which is why it take so long to get confuse a full mob with this power. 

[Onlyasandwich]

As this guy finally approaches the 30's, I just wanted to thank you for the combo inspiration here, @oedipus_tex!

 

He truly has a different texture than any control based character I have ever made. It's just so...peaceful.

 

Even at this relatively low level he can solo fairly large groups with the sleep as his opener. Everything stays asleep most of the time, even as you hammer them with aoes. Eventually it doesn't matter if they're asleep, because they're all just sort of winded and staring at you blankly. I can save my aoe hold for overaggro, and this gives me plenty of time to setup a new sleep field for when they come back into play. This is all even without Synaptic.

 

Add to that the sort of leisurely and smooth animations of Psi Assault and I feel like I'm just whipping smooth pudding out of baddies. Thanks to Drain Psyche, I can bounce back from any errant spikes, and never come close to running out of end. For the record, I am actually liking Psychic Scream pretty well. Using a key bind to combat tp back 33 ft, and having a handy bind to tp back to target makes a big difference. The longish animation time isn't perfect, but workable given that the cone is big at this range, and extends far. It sort of fits the pace and overall feel.

 

I'm excited to put the rest of the pieces together! I don't even really have my true damage online yet - just some vanilla attuned sets with no real focus to tide me over until I hit the right level for all my procs and purples. He won't ever reach the heights of damage that my Plants/Fiery can achieve, but he's certainly no slouch, and will only get better.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[oedipus_tex]

11 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

As this guy finally approaches the 30's, I just wanted to thank you for the combo inspiration here, @oedipus_tex!

 

He truly has a different texture than any control based character I have ever made. It's just so...peaceful.

 

Even at this relatively low level he can solo fairly large groups with the sleep as his opener. Everything stays asleep most of the time, even as you hammer them with aoes. Eventually it doesn't matter if they're asleep, because they're all just sort of winded and staring at you blankly. I can save my aoe hold for overaggro, and this gives me plenty of time to setup a new sleep field for when they come back into play. This is all even without Synaptic.

 

Add to that the sort of leisurely and smooth animations of Psi Assault and I feel like I'm just whipping smooth pudding out of baddies. Thanks to Drain Psyche, I can bounce back from any errant spikes, and never come close to running out of end. For the record, I am actually liking Psychic Scream pretty well. Using a key bind to combat tp back 33 ft, and having a handy bind to tp back to target makes a big difference. The longish animation time isn't perfect, but workable given that the cone is big at this range, and extends far. It sort of fits the pace and overall feel.

 

I'm excited to put the rest of the pieces together! I don't even really have my true damage online yet - just some vanilla attuned sets with no real focus to tide me over until I hit the right level for all my procs and purples. He won't ever reach the heights of damage that my Plants/Fiery can achieve, but he's certainly no slouch, and will only get better.

 

 

 

 

 

Glad you are having fun!

 

Since Elec/Psi is my "main" I've been pondering for a while adding a second, more offensively oriented build. I'm mostly happy with the build I have for +4x8--I need the extra Defense to survive it. But there's a lot of team content where all of that extra may be overkill and procs would be a better approach. Some of your slotting is great and I may copy it.

 

One power I've gone back and forth on is Sleet. It's a good power in general, but conflicts with the Sleep patch. If not for the nuisance damage that power does it would be way up on my list of powers to acquire. On teams of course the sleep patch barely matters, so Sleet may be the direction I do.

 

I've also tried the Primal pool briefly on this toon and was really disappointed. 

 

I think once you try Power Sink in the Mu pool you'll be sold. It's a high water mark.

 

Also, don't completely discount the Mu pool power Surge of Power. The best up time you can get on it is only 50%, and it crashes. But you have Power Sink, so all a crash means is eating a blue and Power Sinking to go back to full. Having to retoggle can suck, but at least Conductive Aura won't detoggle, since it costs 0 endurance (it actually gives Endurance back).

[Onlyasandwich]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:42 AM, oedipus_tex said:

Power Sink

Yeah, I think it's goodbye gremlins. I really want them to work better than they do, but they are rather unreliable!

[oedipus_tex]

10 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Yeah, I think it's goodbye gremlins. I really want them to work better than they do, but they are rather unreliable!

 

 

Unfortunately it only gets worse as you go up in difficulty. They last like 20 seconds in hard content. There are just too many good powers out there to justify them IMO.

 

They're slightly better on a Controller, since you might have a chance of keeping them alive and are more pressed for damage.

[Onlyasandwich]

2 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

There are just too many good powers out there

 

I must admit it feels really weird to consider skipping a pet! What other control set would seriously do so except out of thematic or noise concerns? Awoooo!

There is something to be said for having more of your power invested in the character itself rather than uncontrollable little glowy scamps, especially when teleporting around.

 

Looking at their stats, they have a decent best case scenario, but their survivability is just too poor for the damage they dish out. Surge of Power is a neat idea! I am moderately annoyed by crashes though, even if mitigated by a blue and power sink. 

 

I may change my tune once I get ball lightning and slot it up fully. As it stands, I can see being too busy in my normal rotation to worry about the third aoe, and may yet drop Psychic, leaving me with a flex power and chunk of slots to redistribute.

 

 

[oedipus_tex]

8 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

I must admit it feels really weird to consider skipping a pet! What other control set would seriously do so except out of thematic or noise concerns? Awoooo!

There is something to be said for having more of your power invested in the character itself rather than uncontrollable little glowy scamps, especially when teleporting around.

 

Looking at their stats, they have a decent best case scenario, but their survivability is just too poor for the damage they dish out. Surge of Power is a neat idea! I am moderately annoyed by crashes though, even if mitigated by a blue and power sink. 

 

I may change my tune once I get ball lightning and slot it up fully. As it stands, I can see being too busy in my normal rotation to worry about the third aoe, and may yet drop Psychic, leaving me with a flex power and chunk of slots to redistribute.

 

 

 

 

Yeah it's unfortunate. I wish the role of pets in general was better defined. The issue with them is scalability, since you can't really IO them. They work okay against small packs of enemies, but really fall apart at tougher difficulties. 

 

You can kinda see a related issue in the video I posted above. If you notice the incredibly awkward opener I used in the portion at around 0:30 but didn't pay a heavy price for it, and compare it to my death at 18:30, you can see that what carried me through that opener was Barrier Destiny, or more accurately, soft capped Defenses. At the time of my death, Defense has fallen to around 28 and 29. That little bit of difference resulted in being nearly instantly knocked face to the floor. That really reinforces for me two things:

• There's a huge difference between survivability when soft capped versus not
• Pets that don't have a lot of native defense or resists are toast at x8+4

 

Of course there are other ways to stay capped e.g. clever use of Purples. That death was really my fault for not doing better management. It did surprise me at first though because the change wasn't gradual, it was near instant death.

[Onlyasandwich]

I'm still rolling with the original Gremlins build for now, and will fully evaluate once I'm 50 and slotted up after diving into a few different scenarios in depth.

 

Meanwhile, below is what I'm thinking as an alternate "bye bye Psy Scream and Gremlins" version. The more I look at it, the more I like it. I spend enough time cycling my immob, Static Field, Drain Psyche, etc that Psy Scream may not be adding all that much to my typical rotation, especially given its animation time. Having a resist steroid in my back pocket also gives me a good reset button for trouble, or extra tool to get more aggressive if against enemies that don't take well to my normal approach. Layer Power Sink on top and now sapping is not just a passive strategy, but one I can use proactively when needed.

 

Thank you again for the insight, @oedipus_tex! Your thoughts on this combo are making even more sense as I progress.

 

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Dominator
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Psionic Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(25), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(25), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45)
Level 1: Psionic Dart -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Chain Fences -- SynSck-Dam/Acc/End(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(3), SynSck-EndMod(3), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(50), SynSck-Dam/Rech(50), SprDmnGrs-Rchg/Fiery Orb(50)
Level 4: Mind Probe -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), TchofDth-Dam%(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46), Hct-Dam%(48), GldStr-%Dam(48)
Level 6: Telekinetic Thrust -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Hct-Acc/Rchg(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(43), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(43)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- PwrTrns-EndMod(A), PwrTrns-Dam/Rech(9), PwrTrns-Dam/EndMod(9), PwrTrns-Dam/Acc/End(11), PwrTrns-Dam/Acc/Rech/End(31), PwrTrns-+Heal(31)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Static Field -- SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(13), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAscoft-Rchg/+Dmg%(37)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(15), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(15), Ksm-ToHit+(40)
Level 16: Teleport -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(A), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(19), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(21), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(21), UnbCns-Dam%(23)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- DS:DSyncHealAcc(A), DS:DSyncHealRech(23), DS:DSyncHealRech(34)
Level 22: Combat Teleport -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(A), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(27), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(27), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(29), CrcPrs-Conf%(29)
Level 28: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 30: Fold Space -- DS:DSyncThreatAccRech(A), DS:DSyncThreatAccRech(33)
Level 32: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 35: Psionic Lance -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36), StnoftheM-Dam%(36), GldJvl-Dam%(37), Apc-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), ScrDrv-Dam%(39), Obl-%Dam(39), Erd-%Dam(40), Arm-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Charged Armor -- GldArm-End/Res(A), GldArm-ResDam(42), GldArm-3defTpProc(42), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(34), JvlVll-Dam%(45), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46), PstBls-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Power Sink -- SynSck-EndMod(A), SynSck-Dam/Rech(17), SynSck-EndMod/Rech(17), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(19), SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(31)
Level 49: Surge of Power -- Ags-ResDam/Rchg(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(48), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33)
Level 1: Domination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Prv-Absorb%(33)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:32 AM, oedipus_tex said:

This is Arc ID 30937 if you ever want to try it.

So uh - did you make these guys immune to teleport? Perhaps I am missing some element of the resist mechanic. 

 

I ran this mission today on +4X8 and they weren't being fold spaceded at all.

 

I was using my gremlin/psy scream build, and it actually held up well! I had to mess with map geometry to get them to clump though, as Fold Space couldn't do its work. I had a face plant at the opening scene where everything is super wide open, but otherwise cutting corners, dropping sleep patch, and go to town did the trick. I do have to be careful to keep weaving in confusion to mitigate return volleys, as sleep is not 100%.

[oedipus_tex]

12 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

So uh - did you make these guys immune to teleport? Perhaps I am missing some element of the resist mechanic. 

 

I ran this mission today on +4X8 and they weren't being fold spaceded at all.

 

I was using my gremlin/psy scream build, and it actually held up well! I had to mess with map geometry to get them to clump though, as Fold Space couldn't do its work. I had a face plant at the opening scene where everything is super wide open, but otherwise cutting corners, dropping sleep patch, and go to town did the trick. I do have to be careful to keep weaving in confusion to mitigate return volleys, as sleep is not 100%.

 

 

No, I have no problem Fold Spacing them. If bosses are +4 to you they won't get teleported, but everything else should be. I can look into the mission later to see if the mobs somehow inheritted teleport protection along the ride. I dont even know what powers they might have that even provide TP protection. 🙂

Edited March 31, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Onlyasandwich]

Even the minions were scoffing at it. 😃

 

Fun mission though! My first run through was not bad, as mentioned, but second time around the purples weren't dropping at a good enough pace. The difference is pretty stark.

 

When my purples run out, it feels pretty safe for a while, as the mobs are typically sapped or otherwise controlled. However, all it takes is once errant volley with the wrong timing and away I go. Definitely not an easy mission for someone who has ignored defense entirely. Any situation I can anticipate I can prepare for and make it through, but the ambushes especially present a challenge to this type of character.

 

Oddly enough, my gremlins didn't really die much! Even in overaggro situations, my sleep fields scattered nearby kept them running okay for the most part, and they were welcome on the bosses once numbers were whittled down.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Onlyasandwich