Banes with Halitosis

[Nemu]

The problem with Banes in my experience is that they are not suited for a war of attrition against large packs of moderately difficult enemies that bring debuffs to the table.  Whereas some of my blasters can nuke the spawn and trigger mob fear AI, end the fight quicker and survive, Banes do not have that luxury of killing stuff en-mass quickly and that becomes their undoing when fodder are allowed to live to stack up cascading debuffs.

 

Sometimes the best defense is overwhelming offense, but even with the grenade attacks, a Bane's overall AoE alpha strike capability is still lacking. I see a lot of banes taking the thematic approach for mace mastery for a -20% res single target attack, emphasis SINGLE TARGET. It doesn't really patch the AoE weakness.

 

 

 

There's a lot to unpack here. This is the complete package - AoE mitigation, damage, debuff all rolled into one. If you want combat effectiveness this is a far superior choice to shatter armor because it helps thin out the fodder that if left unchecked, can stack debuffs on you that leads to cascade failure. If you built your bane halfway decently, you are not in need of yet another single target attack even if it carries a 20% -res.

 

Thanks for attending my TED talk.

[KaizenSoze]

Just watch your endurance. Those cones can use a lot of end if you have a lot of recharge due to Force Feedback procs in Frag nade.

 

 

[Nemu]

If the rest of my rotation are enhanced like that I agree, but they are not. This is a power with base 32 second recharge which recharges in about 9-11 seconds pending FF procs in my build, and it consumes 19 end. It's also a mid-late game pick where you are either at a point where you are able to slot the recovery procs and such into health/stamina to shore up your end management, or you have incarnates that can eliminate any endurance woes period.

 

My point is that AoE alpha strike capabilities will make Banes more well rounded and this is the best option from a performance perspective. There's nothing that compares to arctic breath and this power alone elevates your AoE volley from pew pew status to a mini-nuke that you can use every fight. Take this, completely proc it out, and watch your AoE go from "can't even kill minions" to actually meaningful with stuff falling over DED. AND you still get the benefit of some incidental -def and -res debuffs on those that do survive.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Nemu

[KaizenSoze]

9 hours ago, Nemu said:

My point is that AoE alpha strike capabilities will make Banes more well rounded and this is the best option from a performance perspective. There's nothing that compares to arctic breath and this power alone elevates your AoE volley from pew pew status to a mini-nuke that you can use every fight. Take this, completely proc it out, and watch your AoE go from "can't even kill minions" to actually meaningful with stuff falling over DED. AND you still get the benefit of some incidental -def and -res debuffs on those that do survive.

I understand your point and it's a good one.

 

I tried a Levi heavy AOE Mace only build and there were two issues. Endurance and the stupidly long cast times of the Levi attacks.

 

The person that designed the Levi pool must have designed Bane ranged mace attacks. Nothing takes less that 2+ seconds to fire. 🙂

[Nemu]

I initially went down the route of investing heavily into the cones from Leviathan with more conventional slotting via artillery and other sets to shore up AoE. It was more AoE for sure but slow as heck as you noted. With the introduction of the Ice Mistral set I revisited my bane and respecced it to only use Arctic Breath as a proc monster and that's working out significantly better. Kill speed matters and Quality > Quantity.

 

I want to re-emphasize that the lack of AoE burst is the biggest weakness for Banes. No DDR, no reliable AoE soft control, no heal or click temporary god modes, and a heavy single target focus makes it weak against large packs of enemies with debuffs. And you can't overcome that weakness by sacrificing slots to build for more defense and more resists when you are going up against the likes of vanguard/rularuu/resistance that can strip all of that away in a few seconds. Kill speed matters, and killing stuff fast has side benefits such as mob fear AI and too few build makers recognize these subtle in game mechanics and instead push for that 45% def/75% resist build goal like it's the holy grail.

 

Likewise going thematic with mace mastery isn't the best choice if performance is a priority. I know there are people that want that thematic match and that's fine, that's a conscious decision they make and I hope they recognize the pros and cons of going that direction. But if they recognize the weakness with Banes and they want to patch it up, ditch shatter armor and take Arctic Breath.

[KaizenSoze]

10 hours ago, Nemu said:

I initially went down the route of investing heavily into the cones from Leviathan with more conventional slotting via artillery and other sets to shore up AoE. It was more AoE for sure but slow as heck as you noted. With the introduction of the Ice Mistral set I revisited my bane and respecced it to only use Arctic Breath as a proc monster and that's working out significantly better. Kill speed matters and Quality > Quantity.

 

Likewise going thematic with mace mastery isn't the best choice if performance is a priority. I know there are people that want that thematic match and that's fine, that's a conscious decision they make and I hope they recognize the pros and cons of going that direction. But if they recognize the weakness with Banes and they want to patch it up, ditch shatter armor and take Arctic Breath.

I had forgotten about the new Ice Mistral proc. I'll have to tinker with that. 🙂

 

I also think Shatter Armor is overrated, yes it hit hards, but it has a long recharge and you have to take a bad power to get it.

 

Speaking about bad power choices did you take Spirit Shark or School of Sharks?

 

I have to give the Levi pool one thing, it has a wide variety of damage types.

 

I had high hopes for Bile Spray, one of the few pure Toxic attacks, but that cast length, cone size, and recharge killed it for me.

 

 

[Nemu]

I took spirit shark but it's not used and I don't even bother slotting it, I needed a pre-req to get to arctic breath and I didn't really care whether I picked spirit shark or school of sharks.

 

I'll share my build. It doesn't place high emphasis on extreme levels of survival for the reasons I mentioned but it hits the important marks.

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Crabby Baney Panda: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Single Shot -- SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(3), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(5), ImpArm-ResDam(5), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Burst -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Apc-Acc/Rchg(13), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Apc-Dam%(15), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 4: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(17), WntGif-ResSlow(19)
Level 6: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(19), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(21), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(21), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--Build%(23)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(25), ShlWal-Def(27), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(27)
Level 12: Venom Grenade -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(29), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Rgn-Knock%(31), Ann-ResDeb%(31)
Level 14: Pulverize -- SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%(34)
Level 16: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Frag Grenade -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(36), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(36), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Leadership -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 26: Shatter -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Hct-Acc/Rchg(39), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dam%(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 28: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(40), StdPrt-ResKB(40)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(42), Rct-Def/EndRdx(42), Rct-ResDam%(42)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Arm-Dam%(43), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(45), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), LucoftheG-Def(46)
Level 38: Spirit Shark -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Arctic Breath -- ShlBrk-%Dam(A), PstBls-Dam%(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(47), ImpSwf-Dam%(47), IceMisTrmt-+ColdDmg(47), TchofLadG-%Dam(48)
Level 44: Surveillance -- AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(48)
Level 47: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 49: Wolf Spider Armor -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 1: Conditioning | Hidden
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7), Prv-Absorb%(9), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(9)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-EndMod(11), PwrTrns-+Heal(11)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Born In Battle
Level 50: High Pain Threshold
Level 50: Invader
Level 50: Marshal
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[PLVRIZR]

Just remember:  "Halitosis is better than no breath, at all"...