Buff regen

[kelika2]

set bonuses.  they are just so small and pathetic and even if they were doubled right now, its still teeny weeny.  even the procs are rather small

x3 set bonuses

x2 procs

 

Also get rid of that in/out of combat mechanic for the +regen (hosp) and +recovery (pocket d) dayjobs.  For those that dont know what is or isnt "combat" think of that 6 or so second window for Stalker/VEAT Hide and Blaster Targeting Drone orange circle

 

I got bored and decided to slot up a second build to see what it would look like slotting for regen/hp/rech

 

[TheZag]

Regen set bonuses really are pretty tiny.  But alot of them are 2 piece bonuses so they probably cant be all that big.

 

I have a willpower brute that isnt quite finished but will have something like 170 hp/sec and 4 power transfer: chance for heal when its finished.  That is higher regen than your screenshot but im sure if instant healing were included it wouldnt be the case.

 

It turns out dropping some regen set bonuses in favor of +hp bonuses can increase your regen because of the higher hp and you get that hp boost as well.  I would think that regen set bonuses should give more hp/sec than +hp bonuses since you get both from +hp and only one from +regen.

[kelika2]

5 hours ago, TheZag said:

Regen set bonuses really are pretty tiny.  But alot of them are 2 piece bonuses so they probably cant be all that big.

 

I have a willpower brute that isnt quite finished but will have something like 170 hp/sec and 4 power transfer: chance for heal when its finished.  That is higher regen than your screenshot but im sure if instant healing were included it wouldnt be the case.

 

It turns out dropping some regen set bonuses in favor of +hp bonuses can increase your regen because of the higher hp and you get that hp boost as well.  I would think that regen set bonuses should give more hp/sec than +hp bonuses since you get both from +hp and only one from +regen.

Screenshot was without dull pain.  even with it on its still pretty meh

[Zepp]

While Set Bonuses are kinda small, outside the purples, five Impervious Skins in a resist build can be pretty huge...

[Naraka]

Part of me wants to say help out set bonuses that are inferior but another part of me says innate (stuff provided by powers) Regen is kept valuable because IO sets can't touch them.

 

If anything, def and resist bonuses should feel similar to current Regen bonuses... Or maybe find a middle ground and slightly buff Regen bonuses but decrease def and resist bonuses. As is, resist also provide mez resists and def provides multiple types of def... So maybe Regen could provide +END and +END could provide Regen.

[General Idiot]

Really if we want to balance IO bonuses everything that isn't defense needs to be buffed, or defense needs to be nerfed. But I can hear the screaming from here even just suggesting such a thing with how much people love their softcapped blasters and such.

 

Merging regen/recovery and hp/end bonuses together like how they did with damage resist and mez resist bonuses would probably make both of them better, though. That might be an idea worth considering.

[Koopak]

Just gonna add some math to the discussion here.

An Invulnerability Tanker with only dullpain and no other powers or enhancements gets 10.9hp/s from 100% regen, lets run this through an Effective Regeneration calculation assuming capped resist and defense, reasonable goals for this set.

10.9 / ( 1 - 0.9 ) = 109
109  / ( 1 - ( 0.5 + 0.45)) = 2,185 EHP/s

Since a Tanker starts out the gate with 140% regen, an additional 100% regen is a ~70% increase in Effective Regeneration and thus overall durability over base. Generally I see most Invulns land around 300% regenerations, Health is often unslotted so we can roughly assume 160 of that is from sets. Lets try a modest 10% bump and compare.

Control:
300% Regen
6,555 EHP/s

10% Buff: 
316% Regen
6,904 EHP/s

So that works out as a 5% durability buff to Invuln, that trend will be maintained, meaning doubling the set bonuses would be a 50% increase to the durability of an Invuln Tanker.

I frankly do agree the regen set bonuses feel lack luster, but mathematically any changes to them needs to be very delicate.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Koopak

[arcane]

I agree that the bonuses don’t seem

that consequential but they seem in lime with everything else. The bonuses should be smaller than the +regen procs , which should be smaller than the +regen powers, which are often just not that big. So unless it makes sense to buff regen power values across the board, which I’m not sure about, it doesn’t really make sense to buff the bonuses.

[arcane]

On 4/29/2022 at 9:07 PM, Zepp said:

While Set Bonuses are kinda small, outside the purples, five Impervious Skins in a resist build can be pretty huge...

Wow, for some reason I thought this IO was unique. Will have to look into a regen proc gimmick build somewhere. Perhaps work it into my second elec tank that’s coming up in the queue for an update/respec.

Edited May 3, 2022 by arcane

[SeraphimKensai]

51 minutes ago, arcane said:

Wow, for some reason I thought this IO was unique. Will have to look into a regen proc gimmick build somewhere. Perhaps work it into my second elec tank that’s coming up in the queue for an update/respec.

My understanding is that you can slot 5 of the IOs in a build but the +Regen aspect of that IO is unique and a player only sees benefit of 1 of them. Additional Status Resistance/Regen IOs from the set apply to add more status resistance, but no more Regen. Otherwise my Regen and willpower toons would have a ton of them slotted.

[Koopak]

3 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

My understanding is that you can slot 5 of the IOs in a build but the +Regen aspect of that IO is unique and a player only sees benefit of 1 of them. Additional Status Resistance/Regen IOs from the set apply to add more status resistance, but no more Regen. Otherwise my Regen and willpower toons would have a ton of them slotted.

You may wanna triple check that, i cant look in game at this moment but multiple Impervious Skin's do stack in Mids, note Regen in the totals page and the enhancements.

EDIT: Mids at time of writing was incorrect.
 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Koopak

[Rudra]

Yeah, Impervious Skin doesn't have any +regen. It's proc is just Status Resistance. And it is not flagged unique. (Edit: Aegis has the unique status resist.)

Edited May 3, 2022 by Rudra

[Koopak]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Yeah, Impervious Skin doesn't have any +regen. It's proc is just Status Resistance. And it is not flagged unique. (Edit: Aegis has the unique status resist.)

That is incorrect, it doesn't have it in the 'set' bonuses, but it does have it on the standalone bonus enhancement in schedule F and is not unique in any way, you can stack 5 of this bad boy across 5 resist powers.


EDIT: Mids at time of writing was incorrect.
 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Koopak

[Rudra]

Is my version out of date again? Is the request for updates that worthless? My version shows Impervious Skin: Status Resistance. No / anything.

[arcane]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Is my version out of date again? Is the request for updates that worthless? My version shows Impervious Skin: Status Resistance. No / anything.

Don’t have mids but its had regen on hcwiki for a long long time

[Koopak]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Is my version out of date again? Is the request for updates that worthless? My version shows Impervious Skin: Status Resistance. No / anything.

The name of the enhancement has always been like that, its dumb. And Mids auto update cannot handle larger back end changes currently, ALWAYS check mids discord for announced updated and then hit up their website if needed. I know they are wanting to move everything to the auto update but as a software dev, trust me, its a bitch with old code like Mids

[Zepp]

2 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

My understanding is that you can slot 5 of the IOs in a build but the +Regen aspect of that IO is unique and a player only sees benefit of 1 of them. Additional Status Resistance/Regen IOs from the set apply to add more status resistance, but no more Regen. Otherwise my Regen and willpower toons would have a ton of them slotted.

I just went into test center to double check this.

The Regen is limited to one iteration.

The Regen requires power activation. (auto or toggle works great, but don't expect the benefit if muled in the T₉.)

The Status Resistance is limited to five iterations.

The Status Resistance does not require activation. (you can have it in powers you are not using, good news for Kheldians!)

Please note, that in Mids, this is not correctly reflected.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Koopak said:

You may wanna triple check that, i cant look in game at this moment but multiple Impervious Skin's do stack in Mids, note Regen in the totals page and the enhancements.

From the HC wiki: "This enhancement grants a 7.5% reduction in status effect duration, which may be stacked up to five times to provide a maximum reduction of 37.5%. This enhancement also grants a one-time, non-stacking 25% regeneration rate bonus." SeraphimKensai and Zepp are correct; the regeneration bonus is unique, so multiple copies are pointless, although stacking one with several five-slotted sets of Titanium Coating for its 10% regeneration set bonus is a suitable win.

 

[AboveTheChemist]

I updated the wiki page for Impervious Skin: Status Resistance/Regeneration slightly to make it clear that the /Regen portion behaves like a 120s proc (after confirming on City of Data).

[Koopak]

Thanks for clarification guys, iv passed this along to the Mids Reborn discord and edited my posts to avoid misinformation.

[SeraphimKensai]

Also note there is a lesser used Health IO with another 25% bonus in Regenerate Tissue. The Regen bonus from Regenerative Tissue and Impervious Skin do stack if I recall, it's been awhile since I've played a Regen based character.

[Zepp]

If you are going for Regen-related procs:

Resistance;

• Impervious Skin Status Resistance/Regeneration (Regeneration portion treated as Unique)
• Unbreakable Guard +HP (Unique)

Heal:

• Regenerative Tissue Regeneration (Unique)
• Numina's Convalescence Regeneration/Recovery (Unique)
• Panacea +HP/+Endurance (this is actually a 3PPM heal in PVE or 20% Regen in PVP) (Unique)
• Preventative Medicine +Absorb (Unique)

Endurance Modification:

• Power Transfer Chance to Heal Self (Non-Unique)

Ranged:

• Entropic Chaos Chance to Heal (Non-Unique)

Sleep:

• Call of the Sandman Chance to Heal Self (Unique)

Hold:

• (Superior) Entomb Recharge / Chance for Absorb (Unique)

 

If there are any  that I missed, let me know

Edited May 4, 2022 by Zepp

[arcane]

5 hours ago, Koopak said:

Thanks for clarification guys, iv passed this along to the Mids Reborn discord and edited my posts to avoid misinformation.

The misinformation governance board was already called 😕

[Troo]

 

oh.. ya'll solved this already.

[Zepp]

@Troo the confusion over it was caused by the way MID's titled the enhancement and also the way it handled the Regeneration bonus.

The fact that the regeneration proc requires activation whereas the status resistance does not, however, did require confirmation.