Builds are useless (to me)

[markofantares]

I distinctly remember this from Live, way back when.  People would post builds. They would plan them all out and ask for suggestions & feedback.

 

But posting a build is a helluva lot different than leveling a build and getting to 50.  How many of these builds actually see the light of day?

 

What I want to know is what do you actually think about the powersets? How do they play? How are early levels 1-25ish/30ish? Do you run into issues with mobs? What are the strengths?

 

These are more important to me.

 

/endrant

[ed_anger]

Most people are really only concerned with post-50 IO-ed builds, when they're posting those.

 

Sure, what you do while leveling is often different. But we get a million respecs, so easy to change after you hit 50.

[markofantares]

Most people are really only concerned with post-50 IO-ed builds, when they're posting those.

 

Sure, what you do while leveling is often different. But we get a million respecs, so easy to change after you hit 50.

 

So all these people are already 50 when they post their builds?

[Fedifensor]

I have the same problem with a lot of the posted builds, many of which haven’t been played and are pure theorycrafting.  When I post builds to threads, they’re only built out to the level I’ve played the character, with real-world slotting instead of a wish list.  It’s fine to look at the possibilities, but when I’m playing a character up to 50 I want practical advice from someone who has been there.

[Xenon]

you can level to 50... then use your 2nd and 3rd builds for your level 50 gameplay. yes, those builds need their own IOs to slot.

 

so each character can have 3 builds and switch between them as needed, only the cost on enhancements is any problem at all. and those are affordable at 50, when you have a hundred million or so to throw around.

 

IO bonuses that stay when exemplared are very very useful indeed. those are your ATO and purple sets, and anything you attune. those bonuses really improve your power at all levels.

[Figment_]

A level 50 endgame build is the destination, the journey may look way different. 

 

My Widow, for example, is built with different power picks and slotting now than they will be at 50.  Some of which is because I just don't have the slots for everything yet; that means my attacks are not fully slotted and drain much more end without their set bonuses that I had to slot them for end reduction.  I also do not yet have Aid Self, though it could have saved my bacon many times over, because I took a travel power and the innate plus to accuracy power widows get because I'm getting into so many groups where we are fighting purples and things with mucho - to hit debuffs (Katie Hannon TF last night was just a -cavalcade- of misses until I grabbed a tray of yellows after a death; so many hurricanes). 

 

I'm going to respec to close to my endgame build over the weekend at around level 40.  Then maybe again at 50 if i need to tweak anything. 

[Mjolnerd]

I generally don't worry about a proper build for a character until it reaches level 50. Before that, my "build" is "that one sounds good, I'll pick it and see how it goes." Once I'm maxed out, then I switch to a second build and start working toward the IO'ed-out, softcapped, perma-insert-power-here uberspec of my wildest dreams.

 

I'm pretty sure a lot of people do.

[OEM61]

So all these people are already 50 when they post their builds?

They could be, or they just plotted out what they plan on looking like when they finally get there.

 

Respecs are part of life.

People will take powers to help them advance now and then dump them later because other/better options became available.

 

It can be a little risky maybe if they exemplar down and lose access to those better options, but that is going to be a small fraction of their time spent playing.  No one is going to sacrifice their build at 50 in order to make playing as an exemplared 20-30 a better experience for themselves.

 

For example, some blasters may take tactics and/or fighting in order to give them some defensive options, but later on they can get defense from IO sets and epic power pools, so tactics and/or fighting could be replaced.

 

I suppose that someone could post their "this is how I got to 40" build or their "this was me at 50 before I respecced" build, but they probably don't see much benefit since it isn't what they are using to play the game at 50.

 

If you have questions about specific power sets in relation to the AT that is using it then I would suggest asking in the appropriate archetype forum.

 

If you want to compare a blaster with energy primary versus a blaster with electricity primary, for example, and want to know the strengths and weaknesses of each or what secondaries compliment them and get advice on which powers are "must have" as you level up and that sort of thing.

 

 

 

[Jon]

I'm only really concerned with builds at level 50 because I only play level 50 characters. I don't even really feel like I'm that invested in a character unless I've put some effort into tricking it out at 50. Honestly, how a build plays in lower levels is almost completely irrelevant to me unless I'm exemplaring down for a TF or something, and I really don't do that very often.

 

Inf, IOs, and incarnate abilities are also really easy to get a hold of, so I don't really think many of the builds you're seeing posted are super unobtainable dream builds or anything. Building a high-end character is actually a pretty reasonable thing to do for most people now, in my opinion.

[Shinobu]

I hate respecing.  Doesn't mean I don't wind up doing it, but in theory a build shows me where I want to go and how to get there, and when I get there, if I did it right, I won't have to respec.

 

I don't worry about a "leveling" build.  Getting to 50 is trivially easy, I don't have time to mess around with a build that I'll only use for the few days or weeks that it takes me to hit 50.

 

I do agree that a lot of people post their dream builds for characters that they'll never actually play to 50 or, if they get there, never actually come up with all the IOs they need for that build.  But I'm not like that.  I make sure to implement my build once I hit 50.  It's been a bit harder since we're all starting over here, but so far I have two level 50 characters fully IO'd, and I'm working on three more in their 40's.

[Chongda]

One thing you need to remember is that some people like the theory crafting of builds, just like others like to spend a great deal of time in the costume editor.

 

Myself, I usually plan my build for 50 while deciding on the character, with a general theory of how the character will play.  Usually as I'm leveling I'll grab the powers I expected to have, but maybe not the same slotting, and rarely the same IO build.  Then I get to see if the powers I picked play well with the attack chain, or if it was not as expected.  When I hit 50, I'll change up my build as appropriate.

[subbacultchas]

I have always enjoyed the making of builds, min/maxing characters and "theorycraft" although I dislike that term a lot. However, I don't usually make firm builds until the 35-50 stretch. Until then I always have a vision and tentative plan when I first conceive of the character, but until those last few powers I don't exactly have a strict guideline to go by. That way I can get a feel for how fun it is, before I start pushing it into strange requirements. And it's worked really good for me at most times.

 

My only wish is that people would take the time to understand IOs, sets, incarnates (I'm still learning) and planners, instead of just asking random folks or sg members to make builds for them. While most of us will do it, it often leads to them making a character where they may get results, but they don't get the understanding of why or how. That can be harmful when new content or changes come in, and they don't quite understand how to adopt them in their current build, because they don't understand the build itself well.

[TheSwamper]

Most people are really only concerned with post-50 IO-ed builds, when they're posting those.

 

This is definitely not me. When I get a character to 50, he's almost done. I am too eager to try other powers, and see other animations, to spend most of my time on a character who has already reached the level cap.

 

Perhaps once I have 30 or so characters to level 50, then I'll pick a few to strengthen further.

 

To answer the OP, I use whatever I find until 12, DOs from 12-21, SOs from 21 to 50. When I hit 40ish, I'll start looking at what recipes I have and gradually swap out SOs for IOs. Hope that helps.

[subbacultchas]

Most people are really only concerned with post-50 IO-ed builds, when they're posting those.

When I hit 40ish, I'll start looking at what recipes I have and gradually swap out SOs for IOs. Hope that helps.

Traditionally I've taken this approach too. But enhancement unslotters have changed this for me overall. When I hit 30 now, sometimes mid 20's if it's unique drop or lotg +rech, I will go ahead and craft them and use them. When I get ready to replace them with something else, or the level 50 requirements, I unslot them and sell them or pass along to alts. I generally get a lot more money out of the crafted IO's than it takes to actually craft them, and I get to use them for a good number of levels and then sell them them like a brand new car.

 

Just my 2 cents on that.

[jubakumbi]

I get where the OP is coming from...however...personally, I do not understand asking others about how something plays unless you know them personally/well, simply because of the human condition.

IME, the only way to know is to just play the character and see for yourself.

 

At a fundamental level, I prefer to find informaiton with my own experiences rather than asking other people to cloud the view with thier lens.

 

IMO, someones joy or hate of a class is typically just as useless to me as a theory build...

[wmtyrance]

It always seems like the only real build help being posted are for lvl 50. Where are the builds for low lvl players just getting started? Many have don't have a clue to how to slot their powers. I'M talking about new players to the game. It's sad when I at lvl 36 get a tell from a low lvl player in the game because no one would answer their question in the help chat. And I'm not flagged as a helper.

[jubakumbi]

It's not like they don't have Internet access if they are playing.

 

Why would you even _trust_ a random player to give you valid data over thier opinion, 'helper' or not 'frequent forum poster' or not?

It simply baffles me, always has, I guess I am the odd man out here.

 

I simply never trust another player to give me an unbiased opinion on any game aspect.

[subbacultchas]

It's not like they don't have Internet access if they are playing.

 

Why would you even _trust_ a random player to give you valid data over thier opinion, 'helper' or not 'frequent forum poster' or not?

It simply baffles me, always has, I guess I am the odd man out here.

 

I simply never trust another player to give me an unbiased opinion on any game aspect.

Same, even with convergent views. I'll take them into consideration, do some digging and see if it's true. But the amount of misinformation even well-meaning people spout daily is mind-boggling. I include myself in that too.

[Roughtrade]

This is definitely not me. When I get a character to 50, he's almost done. I am too eager to try other powers, and see other animations, to spend most of my time on a character who has already reached the level cap.

I can barely get past 30 without wondering what something else might be like.

 

Altoholicism.  It's real.

[wmtyrance]

As an old school MMO player I 100% agree about research. Its all we had back in the day. But today's players are always posting on every MMO board "what's the best build". You can find that question on every MMO board.

[jubakumbi]

As an old school MMO player I 100% agree about research. Its all we had back in the day. But today's players are always posting on every MMO board "what's the best build". You can find that question on every MMO board.

 

I do find it odd.

 

Most of the requests I see are basically wanting the formula to play the whole game so no thought has to be used.

While I think I generally understand the desire for 'passive entertainment', 'effort free', the interactive aspects of MMOs and games in general are interactive entertainment - playing someone elses 'build' or following thier 'path' is like loading up thier saved game and finishing it, from my perspective.

 

I mean, if you are just logging in to basically follow someone elses formulae, why not just watch a Twitch stream of someone else playing?

:)

 

And here, you can easily see this - look at the top two ATs made - the 'famous' ones for being the most 'profitable'.

 

Well aware people play for lots of reasons, this is just an area where for years I have just not understood why someone wants a guide to the maze when the game is figuring out the maze.

:)

[markofantares]

Builds are great, but what do you actually think about the powersets? How do they play? How are early levels 1-25ish/30ish? Do you run into issues with mobs? What are the strengths?

Anyhow, what are the thoughts/feedback on this first pass? Really enjoying this toon, currently level 28, and shaping to be a monster on just common IO's.

 

Specifically, the Hold and the Confuse early are two hard controls, effectively. I skipped the lowbie lowbie levels, courtesy of DFB, but have been playing it in regular content up through level 29 now. I'm playing mine in Melee, as with Haunt, ST Hold, Possess, and the Stun, I'm relatively safe solo, and giggle inducing on teams. Ran multiple summer blockbusters, and have had to remember to NOT confuse the AV's at times for badge credit. I'm ignoring the cones, and my build is with power picks and slotting as I'm playing/intending to level it.

 

So, whatchu got on it? ^_^

 

THIS is the kind of information I find most useful.  Even with XP bonuses, 50 is a long haul. I want to know how the powers play leveling and what the strengths and weaknesses are of a powerset combo.

 

Builds are great, the gods know I need help slotting enhancements. But I have to get to 50 before I can worry about final slots.

[subbacultchas]

As an old school MMO player I 100% agree about research. Its all we had back in the day. But today's players are always posting on every MMO board "what's the best build". You can find that question on every MMO board.

 

I do find it odd.

 

Most of the requests I see are basically wanting the formula to play the whole game so no thought has to be used.

While I think I generally understand the desire for 'passive entertainment', 'effort free', the interactive aspects of MMOs and games in general are interactive entertainment - playing someone elses 'build' or following thier 'path' is like loading up thier saved game and finishing it, from my perspective.

 

I mean, if you are just logging in to basically follow someone elses formulae, why not just watch a Twitch stream of someone else playing?

:)

 

And here, you can easily see this - look at the top two ATs made - the 'famous' ones for being the most 'profitable'.

 

Well aware people play for lots of reasons, this is just an area where for years I have just not understood why someone wants a guide to the maze when the game is figuring out the maze.

:)

It's not me either, so I don't get it. I like finding new builds that others haven't, and seeing if I can make them tick in ways people have not so far. I don't want a cookie cutter build, I'll save that mold for my Hearthstone decks lol.

[KelvinKole]

For a lot of people, myself included, making builds is one of the best things about CoH. I have nearly as much fun in Pine's thinking of different combinations to try, seeing what underlying synergies may exist, and maximizing it's potential as I do playing the actual game. I make a lot of builds that never get created but are there should I get the urge to try it out.

 

There's nothing quite like having an idea, drawing it up, and then feeling it work in game. CoH does that better than anything ever.

[JusticeBowler]

But posting a build is a helluva lot different than leveling a build and getting to 50.  How many of these builds actually see the light of day?

 

What I want to know is what do you actually think about the powersets? How do they play? How are early levels 1-25ish/30ish? Do you run into issues with mobs? What are the strengths?

/endrant

 

I've mentioned to folks (when I've asked for help about a build and they respond by talking about how all the grapes fit in various powers) that I might have one character MAYBE that'll get to enjoy SOME purple slotting some months from now, but that what I need is to know how to build with common IOs and what order to take powers in order to progress nicely and exemplar well...

 

I'm not interested in whether they can build an invulnerable monster with all the same things everyone else uses to build an invulnerable monster with enough money. I want to know if, when I reach level 30 I can Tank +3 in a team doing Manticore's TF. That might make the difference whether I roll an WP or a Fire tank. Yeah, I know both of them can be demigods with Incarnates, but that's not the problem I'm trying to solve.

 

You know who does as good a job as I've seen? Redlynne. But Redlynne can also take weeks to get a build perfected. Very few people are willing to put in the time and understand the underlying mechanics as well as the tactical interplays between sets.

 

They load up Hero Builder grab the shiny powers and start dropping hypothetical purples in various spots until they can figure out how to soft cap defense, get permahasten, and blow something up. I could do that too (and then take a two hundred hours of farming to be able to afford every IO to make it go). The truth is, their builds are boring. They are all the same. They solve all the same problems in all the same ways. And to be honest they are playing a completely different game than I am.

 

I LOVED LOVED LOVED that recent post about a Master of Confusion build. That and Redlynne's NO GET HITSU revisit are in a completely different league than all the other builds I've read since Homecoming began. They are just on another level.

 

/end_sympathetic_rant