Demons/EA: set bonuses? Hasten? Rando question?

[...]

Hiya. I'm leveling a demons/EA MM in Praetoria right now. Loving it. 

 

Thinking ahead to a level 50 build (because I can't stop myself), what are the desirable set bonuses for this pairing?

 

Recharge is nice because it will let you spam the heal and absorb shield.

 

But after that I'm at a loss.

 

Ranged defense for extra tankiness?

 

Slow resistance? (I imagine slows could really lower your heal and absorb throughput)

 

More resists?

 

Movement speed for funsies?

 

Or maximize procs in the attacks?

 

Second, does this build benefit much from Hasten?

 

Finally (this is not specific to demons/EA), I know Henchmen are immune to +recharge because it messes with their AI. Does this mean they are also immune to -recharge?

[Riverdusk]

2 hours ago, ... said:

 

 

Finally (this is not specific to demons/EA), I know Henchmen are immune to +recharge because it messes with their AI. Does this mean they are also immune to -recharge?

 

I can answer this one at least.  Yes, they are immune to both +recharge and -recharge.   

 

As to procs, demon prince now has two damage procs available to him in slow sets.  I plan on putting both into mine (although haven't gotten there yet to see how well it does).  Everything he does has a slow to it, so it should be significant.

[...]

3 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

 

I can answer this one at least.  Yes, they are immune to both +recharge and -recharge.   

 

As to procs, demon prince now has two damage procs available to him in slow sets.  I plan on putting both into mine (although haven't gotten there yet to see how well it does).  Everything he does has a slow to it, so it should be significant.

 

Thanks, and I agree about the two damage procs in the demon prince. 

 

You can also put the damage procs in the demonlings, but of course there only the cold demonling will benefit. He's only got 4 attacks, but 3 of them would fire the procs.

 

Not sure if it is worth it for them. There are probably better ways to slot them.

[The_Warpact]

I did my build for survivability and dmg output. I slotted all the usual def/res procs in Hell on Earth since they work for the pets better that way by not wasting precious slots. I went with the Teleport pool to bring the enemies into a Faraday Cage death match. I have had great success with this build and I am quite pleased.

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Duke Farad Sanguinus: Level 50 Magic Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Affinity
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Demonlings

• (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage
• (3) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance
• (3) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance
• (5) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage
• (5) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (7) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Endurance
  

Level 1: Shock

• (A) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
• (7) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance
• (9) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Endurance
• (29) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 2: Rejuvenating Circuit

• (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
• (9) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
• (11) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
• (11) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
  

Level 4: Teleport

• (A) Jaunt - Endurance/Range
• (50) Jaunt - Range
  

Level 6: Enchant Demon

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 8: Discharge

• (A) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance
• (15) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Endurance
• (17) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
• (17) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance/Recharge
• (29) Preemptive Optimization - Accuracy/Recharge
• (50) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Recharge
  

Level 10: Energizing Circuit

• (A) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance
• (19) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Endurance
• (19) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
• (21) Preemptive Optimization - EndMod/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 12: Summon Demons

• (A) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (21) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (23) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage
• (23) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance
• (25) HamiO:Golgi Exposure
• (25) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura
  

Level 14: Teleport Target

• (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
• (27) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
  

Level 16: Faraday Cage

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (31) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (31) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (31) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
  

Level 18: Hell on Earth

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Resist Bonus Aura for Pets
• (33) Edict of the Master - Defense Bonus
• (33) Call to Arms - Defense Bonus Aura for Pets
• (33) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge
• (34) Sovereign Right - Resistance Bonus
• (34) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up
  

Level 20: Empowering Circuit

• (A) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge
• (34) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff
  

Level 22: Boxing

• (A) Empty
  

Level 24: Tough

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (36) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (36) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (36) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
• (37) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• (37) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
  

Level 26: Summon Demon Prince

• (A) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold
• (37) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold/Endurance
• (39) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold/Endurance/Recharge
• (39) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (39) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage
• (40) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen
  

Level 28: Weave

• (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
• (40) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (40) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
• (42) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
• (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 30: Maneuvers

• (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
• (42) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (43) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
• (43) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
• (43) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
  

Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 35: Insulating Circuit

• (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
• (45) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
• (45) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
• (45) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
  

Level 38: Scorpion Shield

• (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
• (46) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
• (46) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (46) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
• (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 41: Amp Up

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (48) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 44: Fold Space

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
• (48) Accuracy IO
  

Level 47: Team Teleport

• (A) Time & Space Manipulation - Endurance
• (50) Time & Space Manipulation - Range
  

Level 49: Assault

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 1: Supremacy

Level 1: Brawl

 

 

[Neiska]

Hello @...

 

Demon/EA is my 2nd favorite MM pairing and have played one quite a bit so hopefully I can help. 

 

The good - Demon/EA is one of the most survivable builds out there. I have outlasted some tanks and brutes before. You still aren't a tank without aggro tools however, but in terms of sheer raw survivability this is definitely up there, especially for a non-melee build. This build is capable of withstanding some truly impressive things, outdoing tankers/brutes in some instances. You are as tough as they are, but if they run out of END they often splatter. You on the other hand, should "never" run out, while being just as tough.

 

The bad - Unfortunately, it won't win any DPS races. Demons by itself is good, but EA does very little to support it. It does have Empowering Circuit for a bit of +damage, but that's all to speak of.

 

Playstyle - I have always had the best results from Demons when playing aggressively. I usually keep the prince and t2 pets in aggressive, and t1 pets in defensive. But to me this set definitely performs better when being aggressive with it, rather than defensive than Robots. You will want to be close to your pets to keep them inside your Faraday's Cage and to keep everything in range of your heals and absorbs.

 

Slotting - You will definitely want to build for recharge, to make your Absorb/Heal as fast as possible, but also to get your Hell on Earth perma. Luckilly for MMs, this is easy to do with many options for Luck of the Gambler Global Recharge, but you can slot 2 pieces of the Supremacy set for 10% recharge reduction each time, and 4 parts of the other for another 10%. This is a total of 40% without any other sets considered. 

 

Powers Breakdown -

Demons - I rank them 5/5 for Single target damage, but only 2/5 for AoE. They aren't "terrible" at AoE, but they aren't great either.

Unless you "want" to take them, I would skip Corruption, Lash, and Crack Whip. They are decent picks in some builds, but with the MM damage penalty on personal attacks and increased END cost, they are rarely worth it. Plus /EA is a fairly busy set.

 

T1 pets - I usually slot the T1 pets with a 2 piece AT for the 10% recharge time, a damage proc, and accuracy. Being as they are -3 to your level, they will need all the accuracy that they can get.

 

T2 pets - I slot them with another 2 piece for another 10% recharge time from Supremacy set, but I also slot them with a +resistance as it does affect their buff. This is also a great spot for Soulbound chance for Buildup, as your Hellfire Gargoyle is your main AoE damage pet. 

 

T3 Pet - Hes also great for damage procs, and a 4 piece of the Command of the Mastermind set for another 10% recharge.

 

Special Power - Hell on Earth - A great mule power, but with enough +recharge you can get this up to perma. I would use it on your Hellfire Gargoyle or Prince, depending on circumstance. It is both a 35% +damage buff, but also can spawn little hellspawn cinders which can add some DPS and more bodies on the field. The great thing about Electric Affinity is these temporary pets also benefit from all your +resistance effects, making them quite durable. At top end my cinderlings don't really "die," they last until they expire. Which if you can Perma Hell on Earth, more or less means you have a lot of free recharge pets that follow you around when spawned in combat. For Slotting I put 2 recharges in, a few of the pet IOs, but you can also slot it for Overwhelming Chance to KD unique.

 

Electrical Affinity - My favorite MM secondary, I would rate it 5/5 for survivability and support. Not everyone likes this playstyle, however. 

 

Shock - Obligatory Powerpick, I usually don't slot it and either use it on Bosses/Elite Bosses or as a ranged Pulling power to aggro the next group without having to move.

Rejuvenating Circuit - Your heal which is both cheap, fast to recast, and generous with targets affected. It does bounce however, so be aware of that for ranged targets.

Energizing Circuit - Another great power that with enough slotting can give effective "infinite" END for everyone, especially if you recast it as part of your rotation.

Faraday's Cage - "The" defining power in the set. Not only is it a 18% all res buff, but also makes you, your pets, and team mates immune to things like Knockback, Endurance Drain, Status Effects. Ideally you will want to keep all your demons inside of it while they fight.

Empowering Circuit - Your only +damage power that gives 22% Damage to the first target, a bit less to others, but also gives them a bit of tohit as well.

Defibrillate - A skippable power, in my opinion. Especially if you tend to solo more than team. 

Insulating Circuit - Your primary power, best used pre-pull to help absorb the alpha strikes. But fully slotted it can extend your pets effective health by roughly 20-25%.

Amp Up - Sadly, this power doesn't work on pets, only players. Again, if you solo more than team, I would skip it.

 

Auxillary Pools

Leadership - I would suggest Maneuvers to help with pet defense, Tactics to help their accuracy, and Vengeance to serve as a mule for LotG Global Reduction.

Sorcery - Some might be surprised by this suggestion, but you can take Shield Ward to stack +absorb with your Hellfire Gargoyle/Prince, Mystic Flight for mobility, but most importantly Enflame. Enflame goes a long way to help Demons mediocre AoE damage quite noticeably. You can have it up effectively permanently, only having to click it roughly once a minute, and can be slotted for damage procing as well. You "can" take Rune of Protection, but it isn't needed with Electric Affinity.

Speed - Haste, obviously. But I also recommend taking Burnout. This is because you can use Hell on Earth, then Burnout, then immediately use Hell on Earth again on a different pet for a big boost in both damage and cinders on the field. Do be warned however that your Recovery will take a dip when Burnout wears off, but that is only a minor problem for EA.

Fighting - The standard kick/boxing, tough, weave. If you find your own defenses lacking you can 4 slot kick/boxing with kinetic combat for another 4/2% S/L/Melee defense.

Teleportation - You can take teleport self/combat teleport, but the real gem here is Fold Space which will let you pull things into your killing area, rather than you having to relocate yourself.

 

Epic Pools 

Heat Mastery - My favorite epic power for this setup is Bonfire. This is because 1. It's a form of CC making things bounce inside your Fardays Cage, letting your pets wail on them. 2. It is a form of AoE damage, even if it's a dot.  3. You can slot it for damage procs as well as Annihilation -res.

Mu Mastery - Fitting for theme if you care about such things, Electric Fences is one of the best Damage/Immobilize powers you have access too. It's a good immobilize, which you can actually get better than perma as it lasts 17 seconds with a 20 second recast to start, this is before all your recharge bonuses and so on kick in. The downside is it requires another power pick to take, neither of which is of great help - Static Discharge doesn't do enough damage for the cost, and you will already be resistance capped without Charged Armor. But if theme matters to you, then this might be worth taking for you.

Mace Mastery - Web Envelope is very similar to Electric Fences mechanics wise, but does have the weapon draw animation, but doesn't waste precious power slots.

 

Incarnates -

 

Alpha - Musculature, no contest here. Your pets need every bit of damage they can get.

 

Interface - I almost always recommend Degenerative, for the simple fact you can't really get -maxhp effect anywhere else, and you can slot -res effects into some powers.

 

Judgement - Your choice here. Mighty can do an AoE Knockup to act as a tool to buy time if you need it in an emergency, but Ioun is the most thematic.

 

Destiny - This is where Demons/EA really shines. Typically, a build has to pick 2 of the 3 following effects - Effortless END management through Ageless, Status Protection through Clarion, or Superior Durability through Barrier. However, with EA you can effectively have all 3 - Faradays Cage gives you and your pets Status Protection, and Energizing Circuit gives you "effective" infinite END, which leaves you free to take Barrier. To put it bluntly, you sort of get 2 incarnate effects through Electric Affinity, which is why it is a very potent set, even though its entirely defensive minded.

 

Hybrid - I would go Support. Yes, if you want to juggle pets they can benefit from Assault, but I personally think its too much work for too little gain over simply using Support. If that doesn't bother you, then Assault might be the optimal choice.

 

How it all comes together -

So you have +absorb, heal, status protection and immunity, with a few damage buffs. You might get the best results by playing aggressively once you have all your tools, trying to keep as much of the fight inside your big bubble of demonic DEWM through Fold Space/Web Envelope/Electric Fences/Bonfire, and use powers like Hell on Earth and Enflame to support your pets as much as possible. 

 

The highlight of the playstyle - Though combined total effects, you never have "low" levels of survivability, only peaks of "not capped." You use Barrier, with absorb/heals/capped resists being plenty to manage the downtime when barrier isn't up. And since you and your pets are all resistance capped, you can take a truly stupefying amount of damage with bodyguard mode, absorbs, and heals.

 

Anyway, know that was a lot to throw at you. But I hope it all helps!

[...]

Thanks @Neiska and @The_Warpact.

 

Lots of great ideas from both of you. 

 

Since the little guys from Hell on Earth spawn at -2 to your level, don't they need significant accuracy slotting to actually hit anything? 

 

From reading both of your builds, it doesn't look like chasing ranged defense is a significant priority. Agree?

 

What about slows? Do you find them to be a significant problem?

 

Regarding Enflame - on paper it seems really terrible. It uses the Masterminds ranged damage modifier so only does about 3 damage unenhanced. And has a super tiny 8 yard radius (so within melee range of the effected pet). Do you really find it to be a noticeable improvement?

 

Is it that Enflame is proc bugged (like Burn or Irradiated Ground)?

 

Regarding the MM attacks - I think this is one case where they might be worth taking. I know their damage is crap, but each one does -9.4% resistance, which when multiplied by 6 pets (or a team for that matter), seems like it would be a huge boost. All 3 on an AV would be another -28.2% resistance. That's huge. Plus you can proc out the Lash and Crack Whip with 4+ procs. Or am I missing something else? 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by ...
Spelling, Another Enflame Question

[...]

6 hours ago, Neiska said:

and you will already be resistance capped without Charged Armor.

 

Really? Faraday cage gives 11.25% and Ember Demon gives the owner between 9 to 15% to various types. Even post enhancements that's well short of the cap. 

 

Are you counting Tough? RoP? Bodyguard mode? (resists are applied before BG mode, iirc)

[Neiska]

6 hours ago, ... said:

 

Really? Faraday cage gives 11.25% and Ember Demon gives the owner between 9 to 15% to various types. Even post enhancements that's well short of the cap. 

 

Are you counting Tough? RoP? Bodyguard mode? (resists are applied before BG mode, iirc)

 

I cited my numbers when they were fully slotted. My Faraday Cage is 6 slotted with Unbreakable Guard, and my T2 demons has one +resistance. And yes, I have tough as well, but bodyguard mode isn't shown in mids and I don't have RoP. Here's a screenie - 

 

[Neiska]

8 hours ago, ... said:

Since the little guys from Hell on Earth spawn at -2 to your level, don't they need significant accuracy slotting to actually hit anything? 

 

I use a fully slotted tactics, so I have accuracy there anyway. But even without it, your question really depends on the mission difficulty. +4/8 they might struggle, but I've had little issues on 3 or less.

 

8 hours ago, ... said:

From reading both of your builds, it doesn't look like chasing ranged defense is a significant priority. Agree?

 

Not really no, I focus more on the resist/sustain than Defense. My melee defense is 30%, and everything else is around 19%. This is out of barrier however. 

 

8 hours ago, ... said:

What about slows? Do you find them to be a significant problem?

 

Hasn't been an issue no.

 

8 hours ago, ... said:

Regarding Enflame - on paper it seems really terrible. It uses the Masterminds ranged damage modifier so only does about 3 damage unenhanced. And has a super tiny 8 yard radius (so within melee range of the effected pet). Do you really find it to be a noticeable improvement?

 

Is it that Enflame is proc bugged (like Burn or Irradiated Ground)?

 

On paper it might be terrible, but it is fire and forget. But I do find to be a noticeable improvement. Free damage is free damage after all. I have no idea if the proc is bugged, beause it's really hard to tell. But I have my enflame slotted and proced anyway. It does great for me, but your mileage may vary.

 

8 hours ago, ... said:

Regarding the MM attacks - I think this is one case where they might be worth taking. I know their damage is crap, but each one does -9.4% resistance, which when multiplied by 6 pets (or a team for that matter), seems like it would be a huge boost. All 3 on an AV would be another -28.2% resistance. That's huge. Plus you can proc out the Lash and Crack Whip with 4+ procs. Or am I missing something else? 

 

The -9.4% resistance from Lash/Corruption/Crack Whip? One lasts 2 seconds, the others last's 4 and 5 seconds. In order for you to reap the full benefit from the -res you more or less would be doing that "nonstop" to maintain the -28% resistance. Personally wither or not I take them largely depends on my secondary. Some sets like FF are very passive and have all the time in the world to take use those attacks, and the space to slot them. But Electric is a very busy set, you are healing, applying abosrb, dropping a cage, using enflame, bonfire/cc power of choice, managing pets, keeping an eye on everyone's END, so on. To me there simply isnt space in the build for them, both in power picks or slotting, or time to use in the rotation. It would be difficult to even keep a 5 second one up regularly, which would be 9.4% res debuff. I'm not saying such a thing wouldn't work, just might not be for EA's style. But if you want to give it a try then I say go for it.

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

On paper it might be terrible, but it is fire and forget. But I do find to be a noticeable improvement. Free damage is free damage after all. I have no idea if the proc is bugged, beause it's really hard to tell. But I have my enflame slotted and proced anyway. It does great for me, but your mileage may vary.

Procs aren't bugged, they count as "once every 10 seconds" based on the toggle rather than the patch (I believe). No Rad patch / Burn "tricks" to take advantage of. 

 

For Controllers and MMs proccing gives better results than slotting for damage. For higher damage ATs slotting for damage has the edge. 

 

I find it reasonable on my Ice/Traps Controller without being amazing. They have it slotted with 3 procs (Bombardment, Glads and Posi) then 2 Bombardment & 1 other Posi to get the Acc and Dam up. 

[...]

@Neiska and @Carnifax: much thanks.

 

The -res on the MM attacks last 5, 6 and 6 seconds for corruption, lash and crack whip, respectively. Would still require spamming the abilities to keep the debuffs up.  For comparison, Defender Sonic Blasts -res durations are 5-20 seconds, but 20 seconds is on the nuke. If you look at the T1-T3 powers they are 5-8 seconds.  So the MM debuffs don't last as a long as Defenders, but you wouldn't expect them to, either. 

 

Your point about how busy is EA is a good one. Currently I love weaving the attacks between my heals and buffs. May change as I level and get more to do, but I tend to like "busy" builds.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by ...
Spelling

[Neiska]

28 minutes ago, ... said:

Your point about the business of EA is a good one. Currently I love weaving the attacks between my heals and buffs. May change as I level and get more to do, but I tend to like "busy" builds.

 

Fair! Just be aware that EA is one of the busiest sets. But there are some skippable powers that let you nab the power picks, slotting is another matter however. If you go this route I hope it works out for you! Tempted to blow the dust off my Demon/EA and make a few tweaks myself.

[...]

7 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

Tempted to blow the dust off my Demon/EA and make a few tweaks myself.

Happy to inspire. Also, I have to say that those resistance numbers with bonfire are mighty tempting. I will be pouring over your build to see what I can steal!