Is there any reason to make a Spines/Stone Scrapper over a Brute?

[jjolin01]

Besides for "the lore",  is there a reason why someone would make a Spines/Stone Scrapper over a Brute?  Seems like they'd be gimping their damage by a decent amount, no?

[Saikochoro]

Main reason to make a brute over a scrapper is if you intend on leveraging higher resist caps, higher hp, and don’t like runners.
 

In most cases, a scrapper will out damage a brute as long as the enemies aren’t running. But runners are a problem. That’s one of the reasons sets with a taunt aura on scrappers, such as shield or ea, are popular on scrappers. 

[Gobbledigook]

Spines/Stone looks like it should be in the middle of a group of mobs using Aoe's, so i would probably opt for the Brute version for the reasons given above. Yes it will be lower damage than a scrapper but it will taunt and be more survivable.

[jjolin01]

18 minutes ago, Saikochoro said:

Main reason to make a brute over a scrapper is if you intend on leveraging higher resist caps, higher hp, and don’t like runners.
 

In most cases, a scrapper will out damage a brute as long as the enemies aren’t running. But runners are a problem. That’s one of the reasons sets with a taunt aura on scrappers, such as shield or ea, are popular on scrappers. 

 

Wait, really? I always thought that a brute with a maxed fury bar would do more damage than a scrapper doing a crit every so often.

[Saikochoro]

56 minutes ago, jjolin01 said:

 

Wait, really? I always thought that a brute with a maxed fury bar would do more damage than a scrapper doing a crit every so often.

When solo and not comparing powersets that give constant damage boosts (bio/shield/dual blades/claws/dark melee, etc) a solo brute maxed out fury can out damage a solo scrapper. 
 

However, as soon as the scrapper is also able to have consistent access to damage boosts they start to close the gap fast and eventually come out ahead. The closer each archetype gets to the caps the further ahead scrapper pull. This is mainly due to brutes low base damage modifiers and scrappers high base damage modifiers.  Non constant boosts also close the gap, though not as much. Each use of build up benefits scrappers more than it does brutes due to it boosting higher base damage on scrappers and also boosting it by a higher amount. 

Keep in mind any buff from armor or attack set (build up, follow up, AAO, offensive adaption, meltdown, etc) will buff at a higher value on scrappers than brutes. So not only is the % buff greater, it is also buffing a higher base damage on a scrapper than brute. 

 

Anecdotally, I tend to play a lot of claws, dual blades, shield defense, and dark melee. So my scrappers often rock pretty large constant damage boosts. And with the ATOs crits are fairly common, if not almost guarranteed on some attacks based on slotting.  All of that will often overcome the fury bonus. 
 

However, if you have constant runners then brutes easily come out ahead. Chasing runners nukes dps. Thats why a lot of plays like armors with taunt auras on scrappers.  

Edited May 12, 2022 by Saikochoro

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, Saikochoro said:

a solo brute maxed out fury can out damage a solo scrapper

 

 

Umm, this changed a while before the game shutdown. Brutes aren't out damaging scrappers. Brutes got their Fury nerfed. Then when ATO2s hit the scene, scrappers left Brutes in the dust and Brutes got a pretty worthless ATO2.

 

But you are absolutely right about the runners part. If they are a 30s jog away from you, you ain't doing damage. Brute > Scrapper in the DPS department there.

 

Brute: Taunt Aura means less/no runners.

 

Scrap: Runners and questioning why you rolled a scrapper with a secondary without a taunt aura.

[BrandX]

8 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

Umm, this changed a while before the game shutdown. Brutes aren't out damaging scrappers. Brutes got their Fury nerfed. Then when ATO2s hit the scene, scrappers left Brutes in the dust and Brutes got a pretty worthless ATO2.

 

But you are absolutely right about the runners part. If they are a 30s jog away from you, you ain't doing damage. Brute > Scrapper in the DPS department there.

 

Brute: Taunt Aura means less/no runners.

 

Scrap: Runners and questioning why you rolled a scrapper with a secondary without a taunt aura.

 

As a Scrapper, I never question this.  The only enemy I feel I need to worry about running, is some AV with nasty regen.  A normal enemy, I'm a scrapper, I can run them down 😛

[SomeGuy]

52 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

As a Scrapper, I never question this.  The only enemy I feel I need to worry about running, is some AV with nasty regen.  A normal enemy, I'm a scrapper, I can run them down 😛

 

*stares at rommy trying to be usain bolt*

[BrandX]

3 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

*stares at rommy trying to be usain bolt*

 

I've seen him run from taunts and taunt auras.

 

I've seen plenty of enemies run from taunt auras.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

I've seen him run from taunts and taunt auras.

 

I've seen plenty of enemies run from taunt auras.

 

Yup. And yet we still can't get a full answer on WHY it's happening here cuz it sure as hell wasn't happening on live that I can remember. Granted, my memory sucks, but I just do not recall runners being an issue on live even for scrappers in any way that mattered.

[KaizenSoze]

16 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Yup. And yet we still can't get a full answer on WHY it's happening here cuz it sure as hell wasn't happening on live that I can remember. Granted, my memory sucks, but I just do not recall runners being an issue on live even for scrappers in any way that mattered.

I have a suspicion that it's debuffs and patches. Stack too many debuffs or damage/debuff patches and him might run.

 

Also, I have noticed mobs running when they miss too many times.

 

It's all subjective observation. I make a point of immobilizing him at the cost of my DPS, so that the team can wail on him.

[Bill Z Bubba]

11 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

I have a suspicion that it's debuffs and patches. Stack too many debuffs or damage/debuff patches and him might run.

 

Also, I have noticed mobs running when they miss too many times.

 

It's all subjective observation. I make a point of immobilizing him at the cost of my DPS, so that the team can wail on him.

 

I don't disagree at all that debuffs and patches are exacerbating the issue further but again, I don't recall in all my time soloing scrappers back on live that I ever had to deal with the running we're seeing now in standard content. And I certainly never saw taunt being overridden/ignored as it is now.

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I don't disagree at all that debuffs and patches are exacerbating the issue further but again, I don't recall in all my time soloing scrappers back on live that I ever had to deal with the running we're seeing now in standard content. And I certainly never saw taunt being overridden/ignored as it is now.

 

I recall taunt not working 100% on live.  I'd have runners on my Ice/Ice Tanker back on live.  Maybe not as much as I see now, but runners from taunt auras, I saw.

[Errants]

20 hours ago, BrandX said:

As a Scrapper, I never question this.  The only enemy I feel I need to worry about running, is some AV with nasty regen.  A normal enemy, I'm a scrapper, I can run them down 😛

Runners die tired.

[Greldek]

The worst scrapper, is still better than the best of any other AT. So the reason would be because you're bored of playing SSSS++ tier characters (every scrapper) and just want to slum it with some noobs on some other random garbo AT.