New sidekick/lackey system

[Mr.D3071]

Hi all. 

So I saw a comment on the homecoming Discord in the Brute chat, mentioning it would be cool to have npc assistants in more missions on a more permanent basis. I have had this thought for a new system for a while now, and it seemed a relevant time to post it. I appreciate this likely to be just a pipe dream, as I'd imagine this would be quite a complicated system to install, but here goes anyway!
 

Sidekick / Lackey system background and unlock process
What if we could get a new sidekick/lackey (referred to as SK/L henceforth) system, broadly based on the 'nemesis' system from Champions Online? The way I see it in my mind, is that your toon would get to a certain level (say 20) and then a new optional unlockable contact would open up. This contact asks you do undertake a 'trial' mission to prove yourself, after which you are given a mission to rescue a junior hero/villain that's in over their head. Before you start this mission, you get to fully create said hero/villain (as in full character creation, you can pick their origin, AT, powersets, costume, give them a backstory [if desired] and even pick a 'personality type' from a pre-set list - this would just provide a minor aesthetic value of given them different interaction dialog). I also think there could be a small number of stock pre-created SK/Ls for people who are less creative (or lazy), but that would detract from what is realistically the biggest part of the system. 
 

You then go and complete the rest of the story arc, including the mission to save them, after which they ask to become your sk/l. You then go on to complete a couple of missions from the new contact with your sk/l (similar to radio/paper missions - they would meet you inside at the mission entrance), during which your sk/l cons as being a green Lt rank compared to your level (so yes, purposefully pretty weak). After a couple of these missions, you get the arc's finale, where you undertake a tougher mission with your sk/l (this time, they go on ahead and you have to rescue them again, but this time they carry on fighting along side you to the end of the mission). Upon completing this mission (and the story arc), you unlock the 'summon sidekick/lackey' power, and you can then summon your created SK/L as a permanent pet (like mastermind pets, you'd also get to command your SK/L to tell them to stay, be defensive, be aggressive etc.). So it would go roughly like this:

 

Mission 1 -> Trial mission (no SK/L) -> e.g. go defeat a random enemy group named boss that has been prolifically attacking new heroes/villains;

Mission 2 -> Rescue SK/L mission -> e.g. Fight through a random enemy warehouse and clear the final room/named boss to rescue your SK/L, who then thanks you and asks to become your SK/L (depending on your allegiance); 

Mission 3 -> With your SK/L -> Rescue a random civilian from a random enemy group;

Mission 4 -> With your SK/L -> Recover a random item from a random enemy group;
Mission 5 (finale) -> Two objectives, first to rescue your SK/L (near the front of the mission), then defeat a named boss with your SK/L at the back of the mission. Return to contact, arc complete, unlock summon ability, gg ez.

To give some sense of balance, the summon power would go on cooldown for say 10m - 15m if your SK/L is defeated (i.e. the time they spend recovering in the hospital, before they are fit to fight again). However, I'd like this to be made so that inspirations could be used on the SK/L, including awakening inspirations (if dropped onto your SK/L within say 20 seconds of them being defeated, otherwise they get teleported away to the hospital, and the power goes on CD).

 

Rank up system

To make it a bit more interesting/interactive, I'd envision a training system to be in place once you have unlocked the summon power. Your sk/l would automatically level up as your character does, but when you first get them, they con as a green lt rank compared to you, and you have to get a certain amount of experience (doing missions etc.) with your sk/l to further level up their 'rank'.

Eventually, after accumulating enough exp, they'd grow in power and 'rank up', conning as a green boss rank after getting a certain amount of exp, then a blue boss rank, and then finally con as an equal level boss rank (which would be the highest they should get, to keep the feeling that your toon is the main hero/villain and more powerful character). So it would go roughly like this:

Rank 1 -> Your SK/L cons as a green lieutenant rank;
Rank 2 -> Your SK/L cons as a green boss rank;
Rank 3 -> Your SK/L cons as a blue boss rank;

Rank 4 (final rank) -> Your SK/L cons as a white boss rank.
 

Arguably, this may not seem that strong, but that is the point, this isn't meant to be a longer lasting signature summon 2.0. 

 

Powersets vs. Rank

Carrying on. Each time your sk/l ranks up, they get to unlock another powerslot. Initially, when you first unlock them, I see them as having 4 abilities (that you pick) - a combination of up to 3 from the primary power pool and up to 2 from the secondary power pool (i.e. they could start with two primary powers and two secondary powers, or three primary powers and one secondary, but they couldn't have more than two secondary powers or three primary powers until they rank up) - with the existing level cap in place (so a level 22 sidekick brute with Super Strength as their primary can't get foot stomp as a selectable power until level 32). When they first rank up, they get a fifth ability, then a sixth ability, with seven abilities at their max rank. You would visit the aforementioned unlockable contact to select/respec your SK/L's powers at anytime, but like a player respec, you could only change your SK/L's powers, not the powersets. So it would go roughly like this:

 

Rank 1 -> Your SK/L has four selectable abilities maximum, which would be a combination of up to 3 primary powerset abilities and 2 secondary powerset abilities;

Rank 2 -> Your SK/L has five selectable abilities maximum, which would be a combination of up to 3 primary powerset abilities and 2 secondary powerset abilities;

Rank 3 -> Your SK/L has six selectable abilities maximum, which would be a combination of up to 4 primary powerset abilities and 2 secondary powerset abilities;

Rank 4 -> Your SK/L has seven selectable abilities maximum, which would be a combination of 4 primary powerset abilities and 3 secondary powerset abilities.

To help address some level of balance with player Stalkers, if you are a Stalker, your SK/L would automatically gain a weaker version of hide (which would only be active whilst the player is hidden). This wouldn't take up a power slot. Likewise, to keep it inherent and not to force a choice, a created Stalker SK/L would inherently get hide, not forcing the player to have to use a powerslot pick to get this ability (so a created Stalker SK/L would get hide automatically + 3 secondary powerset picks at maximum rank). Admittedly, I have not considered epic ATs (PBs, WSs, VEATs) appropriate for this system.

In terms of travel powers, I'd imagine they'd have the same limitations as the AE system, but it would be cool if you could pick one of the full range of flight, TP, Super speed (or stick with the inherent SJ). I don't see the created SK/Ls getting access to any other pool powers. 

 

Additional content

I'd see this as a repeatable process (once you have ranked your first SK/L up to the top rank), so you would re-run the arc (minus the first 'trial' mission after you have ranked up your first SK/L) to unlock multiple sidekicks/lackeys (and you would pick your active SK/L at the unlockable contact). Whilst re-running your arc, your active SK/L power wouldn't be useable. 

I'd see reckon that you could have say 6 slots maximum at any one time, and to free up a slot, you could pick a SK/L to support on a one off mission to help them become a fully fledged hero/villain, thus removing them permanently from your SK/L list. If you wanted them back, you'd have to go through the process of re-creating them, rescuing them and retraining them again. I'd also like to see this system allowing you to save your created SK/Ls account wide, so you could select a pre-created SK/L if you wanted to have the same SK/L across different toons. Also, I think for ease, if you change alignment, your SK/Ls will also change, it would be quite a faff having different SKs and Ls (but either way could also be a do-able I suppose). 

 

MOAR BADGES!!!

Naturally, there would be various badges associated with this system, a couple of initial ideas being:

Unlock and create your first SK/L;

Unlock three and create SK/Ls;

Unlock six and create SK/Ls;

Complete a certain number of missions with your SK/L;

Train your SK/L for a certain number of hours [as a separate series of badges to the existing for being a team leader for x amount of hours];

Get rescued by one of your past SK/L X number of times (as a little bonus feature of this system - if you are struggling on a mission and are defeated X number of times, a random former SK/L that you have helped to become a fully fledged hero/villain may spawn inside that mission to provide you some bonus support. Upon completing that mission in this situation, you would be awarded 1 point towards that badge counter. I'd also see the active SK/L and the 'fledged' hero/villain interacting with each other, subject to the picked personality types, they might become jealous or borderline hostile to each other - again, mostly for the aesthetic and to give this system more RP feeling to it). 

 

PvP

How this power would work in terms of PvP, well I'm not sure. I'd imagine this power would need to be unusable in arena, and your SK/L nerfed slightly in PvP zones (or at the very least, nerfed against actual players, if not NPCs in PvP zones). 
 

Conclusion
I think this would give newer players a bit of a boost as they approach tougher content, and veteran players would have a new system to amuse themselves with. I also think it would have some good RP potential, so it would tick multiple boxes of game dimensions, and if nothing else, it would allow your toon to cover up an element of it's inherent weaknesses (i.e. a player controller could create a brute or scrapper SK/L to give them the damage boost they are missing, or a player brute could create themselves a defender as pocket healer/buffer). 

 

If you have read this far, congrats! I appreciate this was quite a bombshell of information, I'd be curious to hear any other thoughts or suggestions on this system!

Cheers,

(@ Stonestrike - Reunion)

Edited May 22, 2022 by Mr.D3071
Updated info.

[Rudra]

After ranking up, the proposed sidekick/lackey would be a higher tier, but lower level, pet than the MM's best pet. (Edit: With more powers at that.) That is a problem, at least to me. I typically find bosses, even when lower con than a lieutenant, to be significantly better than the lieutenant. That white boss will often outlast the yellow lieutenant, and do slightly more damage while at it. I feel the proposal rather undermines the point of the MM AT with its AT power set lackeys. At least patron power pool pet summons aren't available until your character is at least level 41. And the temp power versions have limited uses before expiring. Maybe that is just me though. ... Probably just me....

As for a boost for approaching tougher content? There is the difficulty settings that can be lowered if needed. And there is a rather large pool of individuals already complaining the game is too easy. This gives them another option to make the game easier. It may be optional, but why wouldn't they avail themselves of the extra free power? Especially since it doesn't take a power slot. Free extra firepower that will fight by my side, never expires from use, and I can still have all my regularly available powers? Sure!

 

There is already a wide array of temp power pet summons available to all characters. Not just the PvP zone earned summons either. Several of those can be gained repeatedly in Ouroboros. (You can check the https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Temporary_Summon_Powers page for more information.) And that doesn't count the pet powers you can buy from the P2W vendor.

 

There are players that multibox and have multiple alts in play at once. And now they will have a sidekick that will auto-fight for them for each alt they are running already. (Not really a consideration, but something I think needed to be pointed out. They already have multiple sidekicks/lackeys following them around providing support.)

 

That is the extent of my complaints about this. While I have a reflexive hatred of anything linking to CO, I can see the merit of a Nemesis-based system being added. *shrug* I don't know. I'm sure there is a group of players that will immediately say "yes please" to this. And you put a lot of thought into this. And the PC having a sidekick or lackey would be in keeping with comics. So between the likely popular opinion and the fact it keeps in theme with comic character progression (at least for characters not on a team)? If it gets implemented? I won't really object.

 

Edit again: Just had a weird thought that could complicate this: A mastermind with all regular powers has 6 pets. 7 if they took dark miasma as their secondary. And they can take a mastermind sidekick/lackey under this proposal. That can have all 6 pets. 7 If they also take dark miasma. So now the MM player has 13-15 pets. (6 pets from AT + sidekick/lackey + 6 pets from sidekick/lackey +up to 2 more pets from secondaries.) Before you get into temp powers.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Rudra

[SuggestorK]

And dont forget Lore Power extras ^^

[Mr.D3071]

Hey Rudra,

 

Thanks for taking the time to read through my post and comment.  Let's see if I can answer some of your queries.

 

First thing I will say that I didn't (but maybe should have) in my original post. My ideas are very preliminary, and would be subject to heavy balance checking/testing etc. Maybe my ranking system wouldn't be viable, there are a lot of variables as you point out, so it is hard to define anything concrete. The whole point of the ranking system is to give this feature a sense of progression, not a one off fire and forget story arc with a bonus summon power (and badge, obviously) for completing it.

 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

After ranking up, the proposed sidekick/lackey would be a higher tier, but lower level, pet than the MM's best pet. (Edit: With more powers at that.) That is a problem, at least to me. I typically find bosses, even when lower con than a lieutenant, to be significantly better than the lieutenant. That white boss will often outlast the yellow lieutenant, and do slightly more damage while at it. I feel the proposal rather undermines the point of the MM AT with its AT power set lackeys. At least patron power pool pet summons aren't available until your character is at least level 41. And the temp power versions have limited uses before expiring. Maybe that is just me though. ... Probably just me....

So to address this. I did initially think about limiting the rank systems powers to be a maximum of 3, 4, 5 and then 6 at max rank, but felt that wouldn't give players enough variety.  I get what you are saying about the MM pets, but I was hoping to kind of angle this summon power to be of a different power level to the T3 MM pet (albeit honestly, I'm not sure how). The way I've put my ranking system in is to try and get the SK/L to increase in strength alongside the natural difficulty curve of the game whilst levelling up. I would propose that ranking your SK/L from rank 1 to 2 would be relatively quick, but then slow down significantly after this.  Again, this would all have to be subject to significant testing. I don't think this SK/L summon power should be significantly strong, in fact kind of the opposite. Part of the fun and the challenge of this power would be keeping your SK/L alive, after all, they won't be getting experience to increase their rank if they aren't active or are in the hospital, which will probably happen a fair bit. 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

As for a boost for approaching tougher content? There is the difficulty settings that can be lowered if needed. And there is a rather large pool of individuals already complaining the game is too easy. This gives them another option to make the game easier. It may be optional, but why wouldn't they avail themselves of the extra free power? Especially since it doesn't take a power slot. Free extra firepower that will fight by my side, never expires from use, and I can still have all my regularly available powers? Sure!

 

My first comment on this is that this system would be entirely optional, and it is more to add a sense of character progression and RP into the game than to be adding another ability to your characters arsenal to be more OP. I am aware that there are plenty of people complaining the game is too easy, I reckon they should abandon their IO sets and then run end game content, see if that changes their minds ;). However, that is besides the point, with your SK/L not being stupidly powerful, they will suffer more on higher difficulties, and are more likely to spend time in the hospital (at least in solo content). For higher level group content, the answer may just be blocking the power in TFs/SFs/ITrials? 

Some people might not want to run the SK/L system as it wouldn't suit their character development style (I'm convinced that we all do at least a little bit of RP on our characters, maybe even the farmer alts too). As for the never expires from use part, while this is true, there will be significant periods where your SK/L is away recovering from being beaten up, so the extra firepower might not be as on demand as we might hope. We shall see (maybe, hopefully?). 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

There is already a wide array of temp power pet summons available to all characters. Not just the PvP zone earned summons either. Several of those can be gained repeatedly in Ouroboros. (You can check the https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Temporary_Summon_Powers page for more information.) And that doesn't count the pet powers you can buy from the P2W vendor.

 

True, but this power would give you a personally crafted (if you chose to) summon power, which is the biggest appeal/point of this feature. Sure, summon Shivans are pretty awesome, but they won't ever be as cool as summoning a hero that you have made (heck, maybe you want to make a SK/L summon of an alt, to give you the effect of running two of your heroes / villains simultaneously (without multi-boxing, as you state below). 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

There are players that multibox and have multiple alts in play at once. And now they will have a sidekick that will auto-fight for them for each alt they are running already. (Not really a consideration, but something I think needed to be pointed out. They already have multiple sidekicks/lackeys following them around providing support.)

 

Agreed, but not everyone does that. This feature probably won't much appeal to multi-boxers, but then it is very unlikely that you could implement something that everyone will enjoy, there will always be some that don't like / see the point to certain content. 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

That is the extent of my complaints about this. While I have a reflexive hatred of anything linking to CO, I can see the merit of a Nemesis-based system being added. *shrug* I don't know. I'm sure there is a group of players that will immediately say "yes please" to this. And you put a lot of thought into this. And the PC having a sidekick or lackey would be in keeping with comics. So between the likely popular opinion and the fact it keeps in theme with comic character progression (at least for characters not on a team)? If it gets implemented? I won't really object.

 

I understand your reflex hatred of CO, I am certainly not a fan of it personally, though I did think the Nemesis system was one of it's shining achievements. I'm not a hardcore RP'er (I used to be back when this was live, but I'm much more casual these days), but for me this would be some amazing character development. Certainly I have alts that would love this system. I appreciate that job that the devs (past and present) have done, and there are many amazing features in this game, but it would be cool to get this one outside of the AE system. 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Edit again: Just had a weird thought that could complicate this: A mastermind with all regular powers has 6 pets. 7 if they took dark miasma as their secondary. And they can take a mastermind sidekick/lackey under this proposal. That can have all 6 pets. 7 If they also take dark miasma. So now the MM player has 13-15 pets. (6 pets from AT + sidekick/lackey + 6 pets from sidekick/lackey +up to 2 more pets from secondaries.) Before you get into temp powers.

 

Ok, so this needs clearing up. You would only ever be able to summon one SK/L at a time (so no, you wouldn't be a one man supergroup, which would be kinda fun, but that stuff can stay in the AE system). I suggesting having multiple slots for the creative folk that want to design more than one potential sidekick / lackey for their PC. You could then chop and change between which SK/L you want to be able to summon, but it would only one at a time (on a global cool down, so if one is defeated and is in the hospital, you could change your SK/L, but would still be locked out of summoning them until the power CD had reset). Naturally this power would not be affected by CD reductions, that would be too OP.

So yes, things would be hectic for the MM players by having another 'pet', especially if they take /dark (not everyone's cup of tea) but realistically there is no way around that in this system *shrugs*. 

Thanks again for taking the time to write, sorry I don't have all the answers (can we ever, when it is an untested idea), but I hope this helps, and I'm glad to hear you don't strongly object to the idea! 

[Cancrusher]

An unlockable NPC sidekick is a cool idea for some Batman and Robin-type solo play.  Not sure if it is feasible, given the complexity of the code and the size of the dev team but, of course, that is something for the devs to decide.

[El D]

What @Cancrusher said. This is a really cool concept for a system and something that would be fun for Homecoming to have... if it wasn't being managed by a tiny team of volunteer developers. 😕

 

There's also the issue of being able to either approximate or eclipse these benefits via existing gameplay. As far as custom NPC sidekicks go, players can make as many missions in AE as they like with them in it - offering more powerful versions that'd stick around the whole mission (assuming they aren't defeated). Alternately, just having a friend make the sidekick as an actual character and team with them. If a Defender is lacking damage, they don't reach for NPCs first, they invite a Brute/Scrapper/Blaster to team with them. Same with Brutes if they need more support - they just invite a Defender, Controller, or Corruptor.

[Uun]

SWTOR has a system like this. Completing story missions unlocks NPC companions that fight along side you in solo missions and in team missions below max size. (The max team size is 4, so a team of 2 players could have 2 companions out and a team of 3 players could have 1 companion out.) The companions have abilities that match the player classes (melee/ranged DPS, melee/ranged tank, healer) and you can select which one you want to accompany you on most missions (some stories require a specific companion). 

[Mr.D3071]

1 hour ago, Cancrusher said:

An unlockable NPC sidekick is a cool idea for some Batman and Robin-type solo play.  Not sure if it is feasible, given the complexity of the code and the size of the dev team but, of course, that is something for the devs to decide.

 

I know, and I appreciate it would probably be quite complicated, but a man can dream eh? 

[Mr.D3071]

57 minutes ago, El D said:

What @Cancrusher said. This is a really cool concept for a system and something that would be fun for Homecoming to have... if it wasn't being managed by a tiny team of volunteer developers. 😕

 

There's also the issue of being able to either approximate or eclipse these benefits via existing gameplay. As far as custom NPC sidekicks go, players can make as many missions in AE as they like with them in it - offering more powerful versions that'd stick around the whole mission (assuming they aren't defeated). Alternately, just having a friend make the sidekick as an actual character and team with them. If a Defender is lacking damage, they don't reach for NPCs first, they invite a Brute/Scrapper/Blaster to team with them. Same with Brutes if they need more support - they just invite a Defender, Controller, or Corruptor.

 

I get what you are saying, and I appreciate this system would take the MMO out of the MMORPG, but some people quite enjoy solo play and it would probably give them a bit of a boon. I don't expect it would ever get implemented, but it would be fun for sure. 

[Mr.D3071]

38 minutes ago, Uun said:

SWTOR has a system like this. Completing story missions unlocks NPC companions that fight along side you in solo missions and in team missions below max size. (The max team size is 4, so a team of 2 players could have 2 companions out and a team of 3 players could have 1 companion out.) The companions have abilities that match the player classes (melee/ranged DPS, melee/ranged tank, healer) and you can select which one you want to accompany you on most missions (some stories require a specific companion). 

 

I never did get around to trying SWTOR, but that sounds like a good fit for the system. 

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Mr.D3071 said:

Ok, so this needs clearing up. You would only ever be able to summon one SK/L at a time (so no, you wouldn't be a one man supergroup, which would be kinda fun, but that stuff can stay in the AE system). I suggesting having multiple slots for the creative folk that want to design more than one potential sidekick / lackey for their PC. You could then chop and change between which SK/L you want to be able to summon, but it would only one at a time (on a global cool down, so if one is defeated and is in the hospital, you could change your SK/L, but would still be locked out of summoning them until the power CD had reset). Naturally this power would not be affected by CD reductions, that would be too OP.

So yes, things would be hectic for the MM players by having another 'pet', especially if they take /dark (not everyone's cup of tea) but realistically there is no way around that in this system *shrugs*.

To deal with the MM (or anyone else) making MM sidekicks, could just limit the powers that are available for choice for the sidekick. Probably just lock out the MM AT as a sidekick choice. Then there wouldn't be any MM's with 13+ non-temp power pets.

 

I would also recommend limiting the number of powers the sidekick/lackey gets. 7 powers is a LOT of powers for a helper/sidekick. Not sure what would be a good number though.

[Mr.D3071]

26 minutes ago, Rudra said:

To deal with the MM (or anyone else) making MM sidekicks, could just limit the powers that are available for choice for the sidekick. Probably just lock out the MM AT as a sidekick choice. Then there wouldn't be any MM's with 13+ non-temp power pets.

 

I would also recommend limiting the number of powers the sidekick/lackey gets. 7 powers is a LOT of powers for a helper/sidekick. Not sure what would be a good number though.

 

Sorry man, I think I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. Yes I think you are right, MMs would sadly not be a viable pick, it would be too unbalanced and hectic. Could you imagine a 8 man Stoke Force with eight MM lackeys... Yeah, just no.

 

See I did think about limiting it to six powers maximum, but there needs to be some flexibility otherwise it takes the desirability away from the system.

 

I'd also consider limiting the primary powerset to have to take either the T1 or T2 powers, and possibly a limit to prevent all the top tier powers being taken. I don't know, again, lot of balancing would need testing.