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So, what do we think about Savage?


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I was using the PowExecLocatiion Target bind for Combat Teleport and Burst of Speed on a Blaster... /bind j "PowExecLocation Target Burst of Speed$$PowExecLocation Target Combat Teleport" Hit "j" six times and you have a highly effective proc-bomb opener... clears the minions and lieutenants most of the time. I eventually got rid of CT on that build, but it is still a fun little trick...

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On 6/21/2022 at 8:38 PM, aethereal said:

crits don't fully double the damage because they don't double the bleed damage.

 

I noticed this when initially investigating savage.... I also noted that on a brute, fury does increase bleed damage.  Based on that I started looking heavily into making a savage melee brute.   Then after calculating attack chains, I never made one due to the lack of overall damage output with no other significant bonus to exploit.   Not sure what it needs, but it needs something.  Thematically, maybe bleed stacks should add resists or something?

Edited by Shred Monkey

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It’s fun as hell. I put ato proc in hemorrhage and it fires all the time. Savage leap proc’d out is fantastic. It’s not my best scrapper. It’s my main and savage/inv fits vampire theme perfectly if you ask me. There are better. There might not be worse. It’s a fun set though. 

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18 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Not sure what it needs, but it needs something.

 

It needs the Brimstone Treatment.

 

All "Cancel On Miss" DoTs are not included in damage calcs for Critical Hits.  Except Brimstone.

 

Brimstone Armor's Proc is chance for 3 tics of fire damage over time, with a 20% miss chance on each tic.  A miss cancels subsequent tics. (Lots of DoTs are written this way).

 

Brimstone is the only exception to this of which I am aware.  On a Stalker/Scrapper Brimstone will Critical, and when it does it so for the full value of all 3 tics, even if only one of them was successful.

 

(Edit: Fun Fact - On a Stalker coming out of Hide, Brimstone's DoT gets the same 50% chance to Crit as a standard AoE.)

 

This needs to be done for Savage.  Include the full value of Cancel On Miss DoTs into the Critical hits.  If it can be done for Brimstone, it can be done for Savage.

 

Next, and at long last, ALL attacks/damage dealing powers in Stalker/Scrapper armor sets should be granted Critical Hits as well.  Those powers have been buffed by Fury for Brutes from Day One, and were recently buffed for Tanks via the increase in their AoE size and target caps.  Meanwhile Scrappers/Stalkers are over here like, "Hey, guys, aren't you forgetting something?"

 

Edited by InvaderStych
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  • 2 weeks later
On 6/16/2022 at 11:49 AM, Blackjoy said:

I have not quite understood Savage Leap.   If it's up and I have a clear path, I will start with it.  But it seems to have low accuracy, even double accuracy slotted.   I also don't use as part of any chain as i am under the impression it is not great in melee. 


While this is a Scrapper thread, I do like Savage Leap on Stalkers. Slot the "chance for hidden" into it and it's a great party starter. Hit build up, leap in to get a few stacks and deal DUMMY damage on a guy, turn invisible, hit assassin's frenzy to deal OMEGA DUMMY damage and get a few more stacks, then hit Rending Flurry to clean up the mobs. I'll either be at max stacks, or just under it. If I'm AT max stacks, everything's bleeding to death. If I'm NOT, then whatever, Im a Sav/Bio staker, i can hit DNA Syphon and that'll usually edge them within DoT death range.

 

(Small edit, you can also take Placate on a Stalker and if you do, you can go BU > SL > AF > PLACATE > RF if you want to benefit from the Hidden status' chance for crit)

Now, I say this because theoretically on a scrapper you could do something similar. Slot the "50% chance for crit" into it and leap in from 10 yards and hope for the best. I'm not sure if that'd be BETTER than just slotting it into build up or whatever, I'm not a big scrapper girl, but! It's an option I guess. It'd free build-up to have a full suite of gaussians in it, so you could like...

Snipe (w/ chance for build up) -> Savage Leap (w/ 50% crit proc) -> Rending Flurry -> Build Up (w/ chance for build up) and now you're back up to max stacks for whatever you want.

 

Sure, you're losing on on SUPER MAXIMUM ULTRA OMEGA WHOOPDY RENDING FLURRY but there's a precedent for NOT having Rending Flurry burn all your stacks (it's also got a pretty fast cooldown, if you take haste you could probably get this combo nearly perma'd)

I don't think this is as cool as the Stalker, but, hey, if anybody was looking for a way to fit Savage Leap into a Scrapper rotation, there's my 2inf

Edited by Redletter
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14 hours ago, Redletter said:


While this is a Scrapper thread, I do like Savage Leap on Stalkers. Slot the "chance for hidden" into it and it's a great party starter. Hit build up, leap in to get a few stacks and deal DUMMY damage on a guy, turn invisible, hit assassin's frenzy to deal OMEGA DUMMY damage and get a few more stacks, then hit Rending Flurry to clean up the mobs. I'll either be at max stacks, or just under it. If I'm AT max stacks, everything's bleeding to death. If I'm NOT, then whatever, Im a Sav/Bio stalker, i can hit DNA Syphon and that'll usually edge them within DoT death range.

 

(Small edit, you can also take Placate on a Stalker and if you do, you can go BU > SL > AF > PLACATE > RF if you want to benefit from the Hidden status' chance for crit)

 

 

I just respecced my sav/bio/mu stalker to do this! But also, ball lightning and Savage leap basically land at the same time if you fling the lightning first. It's just not fair at all. 👹

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17 hours ago, Redletter said:


While this is a Scrapper thread, I do like Savage Leap on Stalkers. Slot the "chance for hidden" into it and it's a great party starter. Hit build up, leap in to get a few stacks and deal DUMMY damage on a guy, turn invisible, hit assassin's frenzy to deal OMEGA DUMMY damage and get a few more stacks, then hit Rending Flurry to clean up the mobs.

 

This doesn't really make sense?  If you Savage Leap and then chance-to-hide, presumably you do not want to then try to use Assassin's Frenzy on the now-alerted spawn that you're in the middle of, and just get interrupted out of it.

 

If you want to use chance-to-hide on SL, that sounds like your plan is to do Savage Leap > Rending Flurry.

 

17 hours ago, Redletter said:

Now, I say this because theoretically on a scrapper you could do something similar. Slot the "50% chance for crit" into it and leap in from 10 yards and hope for the best. I'm not sure if that'd be BETTER than just slotting it into build up or whatever, I'm not a big scrapper girl, but! It's an option I guess. It'd free build-up to have a full suite of gaussians in it, so you could like...

 

You, uh, can't slot either Scrapper ATO into build up.

 

The problem with slotting either the Scrapper +50% ATO or the Stalker Chance for Hide proc into Savage Leap is that Savage Leap's core cooldown is 40 seconds and thus you're wasting a lot of potential activations of those rather critical procs every minute.  You want them in 20ish second core cooldown powers.

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On 1/31/2023 at 2:51 AM, aethereal said:

This doesn't really make sense?  If you Savage Leap and then chance-to-hide, presumably you do not want to then try to use Assassin's Frenzy on the now-alerted spawn that you're in the middle of, and just get interrupted out of it.

 

If you want to use chance-to-hide on SL, that sounds like your plan is to do Savage Leap > Rending Flurry

 

Except it does make sense. I start my fights with Ball Lightning > Savage Leap, followed by Assassin's Strike on the toughest thing in the spawn.

 

Then i hit placate > blood frenzy > Rending Flurry. It doesn't sound optimal, except usually everything is dead by the time I hit AS, and if it's not, it's nearly dead. 

 

Mitigation can come from DNA/Parasitic Aura. I have Parasitic Aura slotted with a Stun proc. 

 

I've done this alot in the last few days, even going so far as to test it in a fire farm. 

Edited by BazookaTwo
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2 hours ago, BazookaTwo said:

 

Except it does make sense. I start my fights with Ball Lightning > Savage Leap, followed by Assassin's Strike on the toughest thing in the spawn.

 

If you are hidden after savage leap, assassin's stroke will be the sliw, interruptible version.  A serious mob will hit you and interrupt the power.

 

Perhaps you meant that you put the chance-to-hide proc in assassin's strike, which would make sense (savage leap, then assassin's strike, then hidden, then rending flurry for 50% chance to crit).  But you said that you put the proc in savage leap.

Edited by aethereal
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4 hours ago, BazookaTwo said:

Yes, the chance to hide proc is in Savage Leap, and works like a charm. You people really don't color outside of the lines ever?

I mean, you do you, man.  But if you're fighting really tough enemies, they'll hit you past softcap defenses quite a bit.

 

And regardless of whether you get interrupted, you're:

 

1.  Getting probably spend two fewer chance to hides per minute than you could have.

 

2.  Not able to increase your chance to crit on your AoEs.

 

3.  You've got kind of a weird pause in launching your third AoE for the group there as you wait for your glacial AS to go off.

 

4.  Not sure about this, haven't done the math, but if you are in a ST situation against a hard target, is the chance to hides reliable if you use Savage Leap against a single target?  I could imagine it is because of its extremely long recharge time, despite the area factor, but not sure.

 

If we go back to scrappers: having your +50% crit proc in savage leap has some similarities and some differences.  You don't have the same concerns about forcing an attack into a slow version, since none of that applies.  But the scrapper proc doesn't have the same internal cooldown that the stalker proc does.  It's fundamentally impossible to get your chance to hide proc to fire more than once per 10.25 seconds.  So savage leap doesn't "waste" that many activations -- you can get SL's recharge down to around 15 seconds and have four chance-to-hides per minute.

 

Scrappers on the other hand can pretty easily achieve 8-10 procs per minute with their ATO, and you're just not going to get SL's recharge down to 6-8 seconds.  So you're wasting more potential activations.

Edited by aethereal
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