Scrapper Primary DPS List?

[BrandX]

Is there a list of best ST DPS for Scrappers, that doesn't include using attacks from the Epics?  Trying to stay away from Moonbeam and Zapp.

[Lyrium]

I could be wrong, but as far as I know, top ST is Energy Melee, top AoE is probably Claws

[Thrax]

Based on the 8 or so 50s I have and the many I’ve deleted, I’d say Energy top single and spines top aoe. Both of those are not good in the other department though. 

[BrandX]

I do recall EM being the best ST, but I could swear there was a list made of them, but I don't recall where I saw it.

[Stormwalker]

Energy Melee is top ST, though a lot of people do use a snipe in their rotation (I don't, though, I just go ET -> TF -> ET -> BS -> EP instead).  Not using a snipe brings the DPS down a little bit, but it's still first-rate.

 

Claws is best known for its AoE, but actually also very strong at single target if you have enough recharge to run Follow-Up -> Focus -> Slash as your ST attack chain.  This is largely because this attack chain allows you to maintain double-stacked Follow-Up at all times (and sometimes have it triple-stacked).  And, of course, we know Claws' AoE performance is wonderful with the Follow-Up -> Spin -> Shockwave chain.  Obtaining the large amount of recharge required is somewhat eased, however, by the fact that Force Feedback can be slotted in Focus and/or Shockwave.

 

Those are absolutely your top two for single target DPS, and Claws definitely does not require any Epic/pool attacks for its best attack chains.  In fact, you only need to take 6 attacks overall, and you don't need to slot whichever of the first two you take unless you just want to use it as a set mule or have it available if you exemp below whatever level you took Hasten.

 

Other honorable mentions:

DB is pretty solid with the right setup.

I know War Mace is highly rated for AoE, but I can't speak for its single target performance, as I haven't personally played it.

Martial Arts is pretty solid, IIRC.

Katana is good if you're not leaning on Divine Avalanche too much, but if you're depending on DA for defense it can really drag down your damage output.

 

As for a full list, I haven't seen one anywhere.  But if you haven't played Claws yet, you absolutely should.  It's a joy to play.  Aside from its excellent performance, the presence of a ranged attack with KD (Focus) and a ranged cone (Shockwave) with KB (you'll want to slot the Overwhelming Force KB -> KD here, along with possibly a Force Feedback proc) give it a surprising amount of crowd control for a Scrapper set.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Stormwalker said:

I know War Mace is highly rated for AoE, but I can't speak for its single target performance, as I haven't personally played it.

 

Runnin Clobber, Jawbreaker, Shatter, repeat for my ST chain on a mace/bio scrap. It's up there on the DPS and crunches oh so satisfyingly. Then she switches to Clobber, Shatter, Crowd Control, repeat for AoE.

[SomeGuy]

Here's my take (and I've played every single primary for scraps):

 

CLAWS (also AOE)
DB     
EM            
Kat 

           
WM                 
MA 

      
SM          
RM                     
IM         
TW 

 

DM

 

The top 4 are all right there with each other, so RNG can sway that whichever way. Now, this is important...DB, Kat, and Claws are procced and respond well to procs. EM does not. So, when they do nuke procs, I'm pretty confident EM will easily be number one for ST DPS. When the nuke happens, RM is pretty dead in the water too.  Also, Spines is NOT even close to being the best AOE. The set is a minion lawnmower, and that's it. Anything with Boss HP or higher comes along, the set is dead in it's track. I'd wager my DM can out AOE a spines scrapper.

[BrandX]

20 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

Here's my take (and I've played every single primary for scraps):

 

CLAWS (also AOE)
DB     
EM            
Kat 

           
WM                 
MA 

      
SM          
RM                     
IM         
TW 

 

DM

 

The top 4 are all right there with each other, so RNG can sway that whichever way. Now, this is important...DB, Kat, and Claws are procced and respond well to procs. EM does not. So, when they do nuke procs, I'm pretty confident EM will easily be number one for ST DPS. When the nuke happens, RM is pretty dead in the water too.  Also, Spines is NOT even close to being the best AOE. The set is a minion lawnmower, and that's it. Anything with Boss HP or higher comes along, the set is dead in it's track. I'd wager my DM can out AOE a spines scrapper.

 

TW that low, I recall it still being top tier even after the changes.

[SomeGuy]

8 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

TW that low, I recall it still being top tier even after the changes.

 

TW got freaking hit super hard when they nerfed it. It's a wild amount of work to make it be as good as it can be now, and the AOE is pretty "meh" now.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, SomeGuy said:

 

TW got freaking hit super hard when they nerfed it. It's a wild amount of work to make it be as good as it can be now, and the AOE is pretty "meh" now.

 

The list I recall reading, I believe still had TW in the Superior Ranking of ST DPS.

[SomeGuy]

4 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

The list I recall reading, I believe still had TW in the Superior Ranking of ST DPS.

 

It's not gloom and doom, but it's bottom-middle of the pack with a lot more work involved compared to anything else. You have to invest just as much as before and hope RNG screws you even less. And you can't have a single mis-step with the new chain, at all. Relies way to much on having enough recharged to get Rend Armor multiple times each round of momentum, and there is no wiggle room. If you lose momentum before that next RA, you lose a lot of DPS  with the slow RA windup.

[Haijinx]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:38 PM, SomeGuy said:

 

It's not gloom and doom, but it's bottom-middle of the pack with a lot more work involved compared to anything else. You have to invest just as much as before and hope RNG screws you even less. And you can't have a single mis-step with the new chain, at all. Relies way to much on having enough recharged to get Rend Armor multiple times each round of momentum, and there is no wiggle room. If you lose momentum before that next RA, you lose a lot of DPS  with the slow RA windup.

 

Is this your subjective personal feeling of the set or is there data that supports this?

 

I have heard others claim TW is still one of the top performers for both ST and AOE, just no longer the top.  

 

I suspect it may no longer be good enough subjectively to put up with the clunkiness, when its just easier to use War Mace for example.   War Mace seemed to score much higher on Galaxy Brain's data sets than on your list though.  

Edited July 18, 2022 by Haijinx

[Bill Z Bubba]

I suspect that there's not a DPS listing that ignores outside powers. The vast majority of the best times for pylons or Trapdoor or whatever include crutching on Moonbeam/Gloom because they are ridiculously OP compared to everything else.

 

Which is why I've tried to avoid them except on characters I willfully chose to go as OP as possible, my shield/nrg tank and my nrg/bio scrap, which are, indeed, both ludicrously OP.

 

But thanks to math, you can use what's out there that includes those powers to get a good idea of what's what. Anything + Moonbeam will give a good idea of how things stack without Moonbeam. Same for Gloom. Hit the threads in question and extrapolate properly, you'll have your answer.

[StriderIV]

On 7/16/2022 at 9:47 PM, SomeGuy said:

Here's my take (and I've played every single primary for scraps):

 

CLAWS (also AOE)
DB     
EM            
Kat 

           
WM                 
MA 

      
SM          
RM                     
IM         
TW 

 

DM

 

The top 4 are all right there with each other, so RNG can sway that whichever way. Now, this is important...DB, Kat, and Claws are procced and respond well to procs. EM does not. So, when they do nuke procs, I'm pretty confident EM will easily be number one for ST DPS. When the nuke happens, RM is pretty dead in the water too.  Also, Spines is NOT even close to being the best AOE. The set is a minion lawnmower, and that's it. Anything with Boss HP or higher comes along, the set is dead in it's track. I'd wager my DM can out AOE a spines scrapper.

Hey Some! For Energy Melee, what are some of your favorite secondaries to pair with it? Energy Aura, Shield and Radiation Armor stick out to me. Usually I shy away from resist sets on Scrappers, but in this case Rad Armor seems like it could be a great fit.

[hejtmane]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:47 PM, SomeGuy said:

Here's my take (and I've played every single primary for scraps):

 

CLAWS (also AOE)
DB     
EM            
Kat 

           
WM                 
MA 

      
SM          
RM                     
IM         
TW 

 

DM

 

The top 4 are all right there with each other, so RNG can sway that whichever way. Now, this is important...DB, Kat, and Claws are procced and respond well to procs. EM does not. So, when they do nuke procs, I'm pretty confident EM will easily be number one for ST DPS. When the nuke happens, RM is pretty dead in the water too.  Also, Spines is NOT even close to being the best AOE. The set is a minion lawnmower, and that's it. Anything with Boss HP or higher comes along, the set is dead in it's track. I'd wager my DM can out AOE a spines scrapper.

So Bottom barrels are in what  order for the below ?

 

Street Justice

Battle Axe

Broad Sword

Electric

Staff

Psionic

Kinetic

 

On ice melee I think a fix of Greater Ice Sword alone would help it a ton I currently use Frozen Fist since GIS feels so clunky

 

Sorry forgot my 2nd question are they changing procs and I missed that part in the patch notes or we are expecting it here in the near future

Edited July 19, 2022 by hejtmane

[Stormwalker]

1 hour ago, hejtmane said:

So Bottom barrels are in what  order for the below ?

 

Street Justice

Battle Axe

Broad Sword

Electric

Staff

Psionic

Kinetic

 

On ice melee I think a fix of Greater Ice Sword alone would help it a ton I currently use Frozen Fist since GIS feels so clunky

 

Sorry forgot my 2nd question are they changing procs and I missed that part in the patch notes or we are expecting it here in the near future

 

I haven't played all of those sets, but of the ones I have played to at least mid-levels, for single target, Psionic > Staff > Kinetic.  Kinetic is such a slog that once you get past about level 35 or so it starts to really drain the fun value.  Psionic and Staff aren't nearly that bad, in my experience.

 

For AoE, Staff (by a large margin) > Psionic > Kinetic

[hejtmane]

22 minutes ago, Stormwalker said:

 

I haven't played all of those sets, but of the ones I have played to at least mid-levels, for single target, Psionic > Staff > Kinetic.  Kinetic is such a slog that once you get past about level 35 or so it starts to really drain the fun value.  Psionic and Staff aren't nearly that bad, in my experience.

 

For AoE, Staff (by a large margin) > Psionic > Kinetic

I know KM sucks it sucked on live I tried it died at 40+ I tried to force it haha

[SomeGuy]

On 7/18/2022 at 3:59 PM, Haijinx said:

 

Is this your subjective personal feeling of the set or is there data that supports this?

 

 

 

I do have data to support this and have posted it multiple times, actually. I LITERALLY have data on every scrapper primary and have played them all. I have posted that data multiple times. I can eyeball changes and numbers and get pretty well within the ball park of how something is going to perform, DPS or survivability wise. I've played this game way to much for way to long (since launch). I have...extensive experience with TW. On live, post live, and post nerf. What I said, preference wise, stands for me about it not being worth what you *can* get for what you have to put in to it now.

 

@StriderIV I enjoy my EM/RAD a lot, but I definitely don't think that's the best pairing for it? I think like you. I'd rather it be a defense set for scrappers. But that comes down to preference. I have a EM/SD also, and it's really really good. Obviously, I think EM/EA would be a really good one. But I have two EA characters already 😛

 

@hejtmane KM is a weird set. It's a lot of work getting the set down, but once you do, it definitely isn't bottom tier. If you don't get it down, it definitely is at the bottom. With that said, is it worth the work? Up to someone else to decide that. Either way, punching people with the sound of a Ducatti motorcycle, or race car, is pretty awesome to me. Also, a procced out Broadsword isn't top tier, but it definitely isn't bad. It goes from bad to decently good when procced. You can make a Electric Melee scrapper do OK ST DPS, but staff scrappers stay at the bottom no matter what. That set looks AWESOME, but OMG don't ever know the numbers or you will despise it. I don't know where they talked about the proc changes, but it's something they want to do.

 

[Stormwalker]

1 minute ago, SomeGuy said:

 

@hejtmane KM is a weird set. It's a lot of work getting the set down, but once you do, it definitely isn't bottom tier. If you don't get it down, it definitely is at the bottom. With that said, is it worth the work? Up to someone else to decide that. Either way, punching people with the sound of a Ducatti motorcycle, or race car, is pretty awesome to me. Also, a procced out Broadsword isn't top tier, but it definitely isn't bad. It goes from bad to decently good when procced. You can make a Electric Melee scrapper do OK ST DPS, but staff scrappers stay at the bottom no matter what. That set looks AWESOME, but OMG don't ever know the numbers or you will despise it. I don't know where they talked about the proc changes, but it's something they want to do.

 

 

I'd be very interested in seeing your KM build and what your attack chain is.  I love the look and feel of Kinetic Melee, but the performance just makes it really hard to deal with, and the higher level I get (currently at 35) the worse it gets.  I really want to love my KM/WP scrapper.  I have a pretty decent sense of how to slot /WP, but what to do with KM itself and how to get the most out of it... I've played around with several different builds and I've not had much success.  I had this same character on Live, and I don't remember it being this bad, so apparently I've forgotten something about how to make KM go that I used to know.

 

I don't need optimal performance.  I adore my Staff/WP, and she's far from optimal performance.  The difference is my Staff has enough performance to not be a slog, and my KM doesn't.  So if you can help me get my KM up to not-a-slog performance, I'd be very thankful.

[Haijinx]

I wonder if KM might work better on a stalker.  Since you get that added Assasin Strike power with an insanely low animation time on KM. 

[arcane]

21 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I wonder if KM might work better on a stalker.  Since you get that added Assasin Strike power with an insanely low animation time on KM. 

It does. I have a KM/SR that only uses the first three attacks, AS, and the PBAoE. No Focused Burst or Concentrated Strike.

[hejtmane]

1 hour ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

I do have data to support this and have posted it multiple times, actually. I LITERALLY have data on every scrapper primary and have played them all. I have posted that data multiple times. I can eyeball changes and numbers and get pretty well within the ball park of how something is going to perform, DPS or survivability wise. I've played this game way to much for way to long (since launch). I have...extensive experience with TW. On live, post live, and post nerf. What I said, preference wise, stands for me about it not being worth what you *can* get for what you have to put in to it now.

 

@StriderIV I enjoy my EM/RAD a lot, but I definitely don't think that's the best pairing for it? I think like you. I'd rather it be a defense set for scrappers. But that comes down to preference. I have a EM/SD also, and it's really really good. Obviously, I think EM/EA would be a really good one. But I have two EA characters already 😛

 

@hejtmane KM is a weird set. It's a lot of work getting the set down, but once you do, it definitely isn't bottom tier. If you don't get it down, it definitely is at the bottom. With that said, is it worth the work? Up to someone else to decide that. Either way, punching people with the sound of a Ducatti motorcycle, or race car, is pretty awesome to me. Also, a procced out Broadsword isn't top tier, but it definitely isn't bad. It goes from bad to decently good when procced. You can make a Electric Melee scrapper do OK ST DPS, but staff scrappers stay at the bottom no matter what. That set looks AWESOME, but OMG don't ever know the numbers or you will despise it. I don't know where they talked about the proc changes, but it's something they want to do.

 

 

Thanks for the reply I have a Titian/Bio armor he is now just a level 50 marketeer just not a fan of the play style.

I wish Fire would get a buff but why play a set that is suppose to be all about damage and all these other sets with Knockup knock down stuns etc do more damage hence my retired Fire/Rad.

 

My favorite katana pairing has been Rad man it goes together like peanut butter and chocolate.

 

My mace the primary feels all right is sitting at 40 one day one day but man me and Will Power have issues not sure what it is because the  set is very survivable and has a taunt aura.

 

KM issue is the first three attacks are fast fluid but man does it feel like it takes for ever to kill something I feel like that guy that pounds on the same spot a 1000 times and then the boulder cracks. I tried to love Jazz hands I wanted to love Jazz hands.

 

Ice melee I have really taken to this primary I have an Ice/SD and Ice/Bio I prefer my Ice/SD but I just like SD more than Bio I don't need munch i would love to get a Greater Ice sword tweak to help and I could drop Frozen Fist I may move back to up my dps some but it always seems kind of clunky. Maybe you can confirm but looking at the numbers Boxing + Kick in the build gives boxing a slight DPA over FF but Smashing is more resisted than the FF large cold %

 

I have a Rad/SD but Devastating Blow animation is so brutal and it gives the guaranteed contamination but trying to follow up with siphon to heal in a group yea beyond frustrating or have creatures just die before animation finishes because you had to freaking take a smoke break in the middle of the fight .

 

 

[Ironscarlet]

On 7/16/2022 at 7:00 PM, Stormwalker said:

 

 

Claws is best known for its AoE, but actually also very strong at single target if you have enough recharge to run Follow-Up -> Focus -> Slash as your ST attack chain.  This is largely because this attack chain allows you to maintain double-stacked Follow-Up at all times (and sometimes have it triple-stacked).  And, of course, we know Claws' AoE performance is wonderful with the Follow-Up -> Spin -> Shockwave chain.  Obtaining the large amount of recharge required is somewhat eased, however, by the fact that Force Feedback can be slotted in Focus and/or Shockwave.

 

 

 

I ran a similar concept a while back  based off the damge buff on a Fire/ DB Tank Spamming  Bind Feint and Sweaping strike to take advantage of sweeping strike being buffed on tanks to 180* degrees. To this day its been the closes in time to a spine/fire brute in farms I have made. Using a full recharge build and similiar concept you should be able to smudge out a ST 8% damage increase just based off of base stats using  Blind Feint-->Sweeping Strike-->Ablating Strike. This is just a theory and procs and slotting could push claws past that 8% increase. Still DB could not do the aoe damage claws can on a scrapper.  DB should be pretty close to claws on ST. 

[Stormwalker]

8 minutes ago, Ironscarlet said:

I ran a similar concept a while back  based off the damge buff on a Fire/ DB Tank Spamming  Bind Feint and Sweaping strike to take advantage of sweeping strike being buffed on tanks to 180* degrees. To this day its been the closes in time to a spine/fire brute in farms I have made. Using a full recharge build and similiar concept you should be able to smudge out a ST 8% damage increase just based off of base stats using  Blind Feint-->Sweeping Strike-->Ablating Strike. This is just a theory and procs and slotting could push claws past that 8% increase. Still DB could not do the aoe damage claws can on a scrapper.  DB should be pretty close to claws on ST. 

 

The best attack chain I've ever seen a build actually achieve in DB (and It's very difficult to do without going SR or Energy Aura for the +rech) is BF -> AS -> SS -> AS.  Which is pretty strong, definitely one of the best scrapper DPS sets... but not quite up to Claws.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

 

The best attack chain I've ever seen a build actually achieve in DB (and It's very difficult to do without going SR or Energy Aura for the +rech) is BF -> AS -> SS -> AS.  Which is pretty strong, definitely one of the best scrapper DPS sets... but not quite up to Claws.

 

BF, SS, AS, repeat?

 

BF 1.452 Acast and 12 sec rec

SS 1.452 Acast and 11 sec rec

AS 1.188 Acast and 6 sec rec

 

To get BF down to a 2.64 sec recharge requires 355% total recharge.

256% after enhancement.

186% after hasten

136% after 5 purples

98.5% after 5 LotGs

78.5% after quickness in SR

That is a lotta extra recharge needed.

Mids is showing on my db/nrg scrap with 10 foes in range of entropic aura +35% and BF recharging in 2.87 seconds, still short by .23 seconds. With only 1 enemy in range, EA only buffs 3.5% (again, as per mids) and BF's recharge is at 3.1 sec, a dead space of almost half a second. And yet, that's all I run on my db/nrg.

 

Is it possible that BF, SS, AS, .5 sec to .17 sec pause is still better DPS than a clean BF, AS, SS, AS, repeat chain?