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Lore: oldest immortal?


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54 minutes ago, Techwright said:

If I read you correctly, you're implying that Requiem's Nictus is much older but lived most of it in the future, or at least the future before merging in the cave?

That's affirm. My understanding of Requiem's background in the lore is that his human counterpart was born in the early 20th century and went by the name Ridolfo Uzzano. He was a priest and sought knowledge on the "Path of the Dark." Ended up in a cave, bunch of adventurers were eaten and Requiem emerged. 

 

There's not much information though on the Nictus counterpart. My understanding was that the Nictus was a Shadow Cyst and found a host in Ridolfo while in that cave.

 

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Edited by Glacier Peak
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2 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

There's not much information though on the Nictus counterpart. My understanding was that the Nictus was a Shadow Cyst and found a host in Ridolfo while in that cave.

Sadly, I think this has the same issue as Stheno and Shadowstar - Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece and Ancient Egypt are all very wishy-washy in terms of when they're talking about. 

 

He's definitely a candidate, though. 

 

Let's nerd it out a little. 

 

Some assumptions: 

  • Primal Earth's timeline is similar to Our Earth's timeline. 
  • All terms are used accurately, following modern conventions. E.g. "Ancient Egypt" refers to Egypt prior to it becoming a province of the Roman Empire.
  • Primal Earth's Romulus is analogous to Our Earth's Romulus (i.e. the mythological founder of Rome) and Primal Earth's Stheno is analogous to Our Earth's Stheno (i.e. a Gorgon and sister of Medusa). 
  • All myths are true and contemporary syncretic histories are accurate. 
  • Nictus age only "counts" from their first merge on Earth as we have little to no data on pre-terrestrial nictus timelines. 
     

Some very rough dates:

  • Ancient Roman Period - Romulus and Requiem - ~753 BCE to 476 CE
  • Ancient Egyptian Period - Shadowstar - ~3200 BCE to ~32 CE 
  • Ancient Greek Period - Stheno - ~1200 BCE to ~500 CE


As Romulus is canonically the first nictus on Earth, and with Rome itself traditionally being founded by Romulus on the 21st of April 753 BCE, and based on the fact that Romulus is a grown-ass man during the Imperious task force, we can rule Shadowstar out. 

 

Shadowstar arrived on Earth as a nictus (as opposed to a reformed warshade), so can limit her in the timeline from between 720? BCE to 32 CE. With the first mention of Stheno being before this date, we can immediately remove Shadowstar from the equation, as Stheno's mention in Heriot's Theogeny places her birth before the legendary founding of Rome by Romulus.

 

Now, two questions remain:

  • When did Requiem's nictus arrive on earth, and how old is he/it? 
  • When did Stheno encounter the Well of the Furies?
     

The first is, ultimately, unknowable. Pre-terrestrial nictus information is scant, although we can make some assumptions based on what Requiem can't (apparently) do: shapeshift. I would suggest that Requiem's nictus, while powerful, is relatively young (in the grand scheme of things), and may have been born(?) on Earth itself. While not shapeshifting may be a personal or stylistic choice, when faced by eight heros trying to blast you into submission, you'd think turning into a giant teleporting space lobster might be a handy trick to pull out and Requiem's nictus doesn't seem to have the shapeshift memory thing, that I think is implied to be personal and shared/inherited. 

 

Stheno, as mentioned above, assuming she has a timeline analogous to Our Earth's Stheno, was mentioned in ~700 BCE, meaning she likely predates that by some margin. Assuming Romulus founded Rome, nictus or no, he is still placed after Stheno. 

 

Consequently, I would suggest Stheno is the oldest unless Requiem's or Shadowstar's nictus (nicti?) were just really old when they got to Earth. 

 

(I have a masters degree in history, so this kind of nonsense is my thing, baby and I'm throroughly enjoying this discussion.) 

Edited by Gulbasaur
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I'm working on an AE story about Snakes on Mercy, so that's pretty helpful stuff, @Gulbasaur - thanks!  That said, if what I posted earlier about Snake sin combat being killed not "arrested/defeated", then villains who run the Operative Grillo arc are killing the oldest living being on the planet.

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1 hour ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

then villains who run the Operative Grillo arc are killing the oldest living being on the planet.

Spoiler

Stheno's final line would suggest otherwise, but I mean who really knows?

 

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So taking this all into account, is the ultimate takeaway that a nictus is effectively immortal if it manages to find a new host every decade?

 

Related: I’m not up on nictus lore; can they take over an unwilling host? If so, that makes their immortality fairly assured.

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Going back to the original question, are there any human immortals? Or “potential immortals”, barring death by misadventure?

 

I like srmalloy’s distinction between “unaging” and “undying” versions of immortality. Undying implies godlike abilities to recover from any injury, even complete dissolution, a la Dr. Manhattan, or a creature incapable of being so destroyed due to godlike invulnerability.
 

I assume a purely human immortal is impossible, given our built-in senescence, but a near-human mutant with a healing factor might suffice to fit this category. (And a male who passes on his unaging + undying ability would effectively result in an entire planet of immortals, something I don’t think the writers of Wolverine have ever pursued. Technically a female immortal (X-23/Laura, Wolverine’s female clone) would eventually accomplish the same, but she could only bear one child per year, while a man could impregnate several women per day.)

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According to Circle of Thorns canon, Lilitu was around during the FIRST Oranbega/Mu war, which was in 12,000 B.C., i.e. during the Ice Age.  Now, she's a goddess / demigoddess / demon, so maybe that doesn't fit OP's criteria, but she seems to be the oldest quasi-human entity that is still kicking around.  She might even be older than Mot and the rest of the Banished Pantheon, who are supposedly around 8000 years old (or, at least, the earliest evidence of their worship is about 8000 years ago).

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On 8/2/2022 at 4:54 AM, Trike said:

So taking this all into account, is the ultimate takeaway that a nictus is effectively immortal if it manages to find a new host every decade?

 

Related: I’m not up on nictus lore; can they take over an unwilling host? If so, that makes their immortality fairly assured.

 

I'm guessing "yes" to both of those, though host connections might be longer than every decade.  As to unwilling hosts, Romulus Augustus was not expecting the Nictus to bond with him.  He's quiet caught off-guard.  In the canon comics, the fused being Horus came about while the human host was unconscious. One could argue, I suppose, that it is not the same as resistance which might create some sort of physical or mental defense to merging, but then you have the Council, and multiple stories within imply that not all participants are willing. 

 

On 8/2/2022 at 11:15 PM, TalynDerre said:

According to Circle of Thorns canon, Lilitu was around during the FIRST Oranbega/Mu war, which was in 12,000 B.C., i.e. during the Ice Age.  Now, she's a goddess / demigoddess / demon, so maybe that doesn't fit OP's criteria, but she seems to be the oldest quasi-human entity that is still kicking around.  She might even be older than Mot and the rest of the Banished Pantheon, who are supposedly around 8000 years old (or, at least, the earliest evidence of their worship is about 8000 years ago).

Nice find!   I don't know that lore.  Was Lilitu human first and then changed?

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22 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Nice find!   I don't know that lore.  Was Lilitu human first and then changed?

 

A quick review of the Circle of Thorns lore and reading through Magus Mu'Drakhan's arc, it doesn't look like Lilitu was ever human.  She's a 'queen of hell' from another dimension and is opposed to both the Mu and the Banished Pantheon.

 

After looking at the Canon Timeline, it seems that she is NOT older than the Banished Pantheon, as I had originally thought, she was summoned as a sort of last-ditch superweapon by the Oranbegans during the first Oranbegan/Mu war.  Still, she seems to be the oldest humanoid entity currently in the game by a long shot.

 

Edit: I forgot that you actually fight Hequat bound in a quasi-human form in one of Scirocco's missions as a villain, and have Tielekku as an ally when you fight Mot.  Both predate Lilitu.

Edited by TalynDerre
Whoops! Lore error.
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3 hours ago, Trike said:

 Is Stheno the oldest snake?

Being the first Snake, I would think so.

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