Endurance observation

[Ukase]

If you're one of those folks who PL to 50, move on, nothing really to see here. 

If you are accustomed to leveling up, I'm curious if any of you notice this, and perhaps can shed some light on why it occurs. 

My ice/fire brute recently dinged level 12. I took Healing Flames. Now, I'm going solo, and am not pushing the envelope yet, as I don't have Plasma Shield yet, still feeling a bit squishy. Running at +1, and the only difference between level 11 and 12 is Healing Flames. I haven't even used it yet. And yet, as I go through (just fighting skulls, doing Eagle Eye's arc), my end is running out, where at level 11, it wasn't. 

Sprint and Super Speed are off. It's all the same, but it's like  - wham, you're level 12, so your endurance will now require attention. I know there's beginner's luck for ToHit, but is there another mechanic for endurance? I do have the same End Mod SO slotted in stamina, just like I did before, and even remembered to upgrade it to +3. 

From a story perspective, I can see it making sense - the more slots you have, and the more damage you're dishing out, makes sense it would cost more endurance, but I'm just curious if there's some game mechanic I've somehow missed. I don't recall Skulls having any -end debuff, but maybe they do. 

[Luminara]

Beginner's Luck scales down as you level up.  You'll miss slightly more frequently with each level, unless you're making an effort to compensate for the loss in +ToHit (Offense amplifier, Kismet unique, extra Accuracy in each attack).  And against +1 critters, you're already at a slight disadvantage, as your attacks have a 65% base chance to hit, rather than 75% base.  Every miss equals an increase in endurance cost per critter defeat, and since we're dealing with short animation and recharge times, it does add up quickly.

 

Regarding endurance, there is a mechanic, Endurance Discount, but it's only applied by specific powers, not as part of the leveling system.  The 2.5% and 3.75% Endurance Discount set bonuses in a few IO sets, Conserve Power, those sorts of things.

[Grouchybeast]

Skulls don't do -End as far as I can remember, but they definitely do -ToHit.  If you're missing more then you'll need more attacks and use more End.  Have a look in the combat logs and see if your hit chance is down.

[Doomguide2005]

     And to add what @Grouchybeastsaid the baddies are also slowly acquiring more health.  Put a few more misses in there plus maybe needing an extra hit to drop them will add up.  Dark powers also tend to include damage debuff effects though, offhand, I'm not sure if Skulls do anything of that nature with their attacks.

[biostem]

Are you attacking as fast as possible, with whatever power is ready, or are you kinda saving up attacks and using them sparingly?  In addition to the -tohit from Skulls, if you're spamming attacks as fast as you can, it'll chew through your end pretty quickly.  In the lower levels, especially on a tougher AT, I'll space out my attacks and take the damage if end is bottoming out...

[Techwright]

Others can delve into the technical & precision stuff for you.  I can only give you the neighborly "sittin' on the porch jawin' away" approach, but here goes...All the way back in Original Game Year 1, endurance was an issue until level 20 (in some cases 22, though I don't remember specifically which ones).  Have suffered and grumbled on it for some time, I finally learned from others to 3-slot stamina early on.  I'm sure there are smarter players out there who'd disagree and offer alternatives.  YMMV, That's fine.  But I've been 3-slotting stamina with End Mods before I hit the teen levels for years now, and it has really smoothed the performance.  (I also 3-slot health pretty early on as well. Any adjustments I need to make are done in respecs and specialty enhancements at level 50.)

[Bill Z Bubba]

I'm in the 3-slot stamina camp as well. As in, at level 5 it gets the third slot. At lvl 17, the SOs get replaced with PerfShifter: end/rec, end and CFend. On almost all builds at some point, the 4th slot and end/acc or a power transfer CFheal get added.

[Crysis]

7 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

Skulls don't do -End as far as I can remember, but they definitely do -ToHit.  If you're missing more then you'll need more attacks and use more End.  Have a look in the combat logs and see if your hit chance is down.

 

I was actually going to suggest this and to check to see if your Recharge rate has increased between 11 and 12, which would then allow your powers/attacks to recharge faster and of course you likely to activate them more often.

 

I play Stormies a lot and they are almost always Endurance heavy because I also build for very high recharge.   When I run into someone who says "Hmmm, I'm playing a Stormie and don't have many Endurance issues" its almost always because they are running 100-150% recharge but I'm built for 225%+ Recharge.  Same powers, activated more often, will burn more End but it's really just an "unrealized" mechanic rather than a hidden one.

 

Back on Live I used to always struggle with END issues levels 12-24 because I was acquiring new attacks/powers and activating them more often or I was trying to achieve perma-hasten and getting same result.  That plus increasing difficulty to +1/+2 would simply require more attacks to kill the same critters.

 

 

[Ukase]

So, thanks for the replies. I can only assume I'm missing more, so am attacking more. 

Regarding slotting stamina with 3 slots....um...almost never. Certainly not at level 12. And I'll tell you why - this level 12, low endurance situation is temporary. Once I get the miracle +Recovery slotted and Atlas Medallion (around level 20), there's really never an endurance issue again. I'm one who is inclined to use SOs because of the higher % boost than set IOs before level 30, but I'll use the pvp IOs, Kismet Accuracy, Steadfast 3% in most every build and have them in asap. 

The return on 3 slotting stamina is probably worth if you're using SOs, but using IOs, with all the endurance recovery, and endurance discounts, and the passive accolades...3 slotting would be more end than I'd likely ever need. 

[Supertanker]

I'm  team "slot your attacks early" to counteract the enemies' rising health. Especially now that we can use SOs so early, they make a big difference. (And I also throw in some useful IOs, here's an example of my Tank at level 15:)

 

[Vanden]

51 minutes ago, Supertanker said:

I'm  team "slot your attacks early" to counteract the enemies' rising health. Especially now that we can use SOs so early, they make a big difference. (And I also throw in some useful IOs, here's an example of my Tank at level 15:)

 

But you slotted Jab, bro. You slotted Jab.

[cranebump]

31 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

But you slotted Jab, bro. You slotted Jab.

Jab? Looks like a strong right cross now.:-)

[Supertanker]

2 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

But you slotted Jab, bro. You slotted Jab.

 

Because it gets a ton of use for the first 40 levels.

[Ironblade]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:34 PM, Ukase said:

The return on 3 slotting stamina is probably worth if you're using SOs, but using IOs, with all the endurance recovery, and endurance discounts, and the passive accolades...3 slotting would be more end than I'd likely ever need. 

Some builds use a lot of END.  Most of my characters take all the Leadership toggles.  Toggle Man runs 18 toggles.

When I 3-slot Stamina, I'll have the Performance Shifter proc, Perf Shifter endmod (so I get a set bonus) and an endmod common IO.

The proc will be min level so I can slot it early, the other two pieces will be level 50 and (if I need it) boosted.

 

On a related note, the Panacea proc gives you more END than any other single IO, including the Miracle +rec.

[tidge]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:43 PM, Ukase said:

Sprint and Super Speed are off. It's all the same, but it's like  - wham, you're level 12, so your endurance will now require attention. I know there's beginner's luck for ToHit, but is there another mechanic for endurance? I do have the same End Mod SO slotted in stamina, just like I did before, and even remembered to upgrade it to +3.

 

On 8/3/2022 at 3:04 PM, Luminara said:

Beginner's Luck scales down as you level up.  You'll miss slightly more frequently with each level, unless you're making an effort to compensate for the loss in +ToHit (Offense amplifier, Kismet unique, extra Accuracy in each attack).  And against +1 critters, you're already at a slight disadvantage, as your attacks have a 65% base chance to hit, rather than 75% base.  Every miss equals an increase in endurance cost per critter defeat, and since we're dealing with short animation and recharge times, it does add up quickly.

 

I believe that @Luminara that hit on the most likely explanation for what is being observed in terms of Endurance expenses while leveling. Missing enemies (and making now necessary followup attacks) is in my experience the largest cost of Endurance at low levels (after keeping Sprint on during door missions).

 

As for myself: I almost never slot more than 1 "Endurance Modification" (dark blue) enhancement in Stamina (even if the first is the second piece of Performance Shifter), and especially not at low levels... the net enhancement in Recovery just never seems to pay off as much as working Endurance Reduction (light blue) into the powers I will actually be using. The SG Base can provide a temporary (but long-lasting) boost to Recovery, if that is what is needed. At low levels, I usually buy the P2W boosts as well (cost scales with level)... I forget if the Survival one helps with Recovery, but I would be surprised if it does not.