Hi, I'm CR America's Angel. Your new PvP/RPvP Rep.

[CR Americas Angel]

Hey everyone! My name's America's Angel. I'm your new PvP and RPvP and ERPvP Community Rep. You can usually find me running PvP Fightclub events every Sunday on Excelsior. (As well as the occasional RPvP event over on Everlasting...)

 

Over the last few years I've been helping the dev team with implementing and testing a whole bunch of PvP changes. Such as the free PvP accolades we got back in Page 1, the free level 50s and free incarnates we're getting in Page 4, as well as loads of new PvP maps, power tweaks, and balance tweaks. 

 

A lot of these changes came about by talking with the active PvP community about what they wanted adding to the game, and then lobbying the devs for it. I'm still going to be doing this as CR. But I'll also be interested in hearing from lapsed PvPers about what could bring them back to the fold. My "job" is to act as a liaison between the Homecoming playerbase and the devs/homecoming team. And I'm hoping we can do that both here on the forums and on Discord.

 

As we move forward with new game updates I'll be looking at what "quick wins" we can get in terms of feature updates for PvP. The dev team are all PvE focused, so I don't expect we'll get PvP add-ons that take hundreds of hours to put together. But they have open minds, and are listening to us. So I remain hopeful we can get some cool stuff added in a similar vein to what we've received over the last few pages.

 

That said, as CR my main focus will be on holding cool PvP events alongside @GM Smol @CR Mochi and the GM team. (Sometimes even RPvP events with...*gasp*...ongoing stories behind them. If any of you remember the Sadistic Seven events on Virtue back on live, some of the stuff we're cooking up will be of a similar nature.)

 

So, if you're a PvPer, someone curious about PvP, a lapsed PvPer, or even just an RPer with an interest in ongoing stories with PvP elements, I'd love to hear from you.

 

You can find me in-game as @CR America's Angel, on discord as America's Angel#5737, and here on the forums, too.

 

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

Congratulations. You've done well for the community so far.

 

Retired pvper here from the old the days of old (Guardian, Pinnacle, Freedom, and the Test League). As much as I enjoyed PvP back in the day I think the number one thing that made me want to actually log in and play was the camaraderie with my former teammates as we worked together and bonded as a team. Sadly I'm the only one that still plays from my old team, and now saddled down with time consuming things like being married and having a baby.

 

I think the Temporal Warrior update will potentially get some of the people who have never tried PvP a chance, but there's clear hurdles in getting people to embrace PvP as the game's design and stats are significantly different than what a typical PvE player is used to.

 

Otherwise you may have additional luck luring people in with zone PvP events that reward players for participating with limited duration buffs like those granted during the Cathedral of Pain trial, and maybe a limited duration golden title "Siren's Call Defender/Destroyer", "Warburg Warrior", "Recluse's Victor/Foil", etc.

 

But that is all contingent on making non-pvpers feel welcome and giving them the tools to understand pvp in a way that does not completely overwhelm them. As we all know a few people that tried PvP but ended up getting spiked numerous times as they hadn't learned mobility yet, or were not built out that turned them off of PvP forever.

 

The RP element is interesting, although I don't understand it as I see PvP as more of a chess game than a story.

 

It's a big task to grow the community, and I wish everyone well as I wait for dinner at 4pm and bedtime after the Wheel of Fortune.

[The_Warpact]

22 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

saddled down with time consuming things like being married and having a baby.

 

as I wait for dinner at 4pm and bedtime after the Wheel of Fortune.

Good gawd man, you went from the beginning of a relationship to the twilight years in one post!

To add insult to injury I heard this all in Wilfred Brimley voice.😳😉

[Glacier Peak]

11 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Good gawd man, you went from the beginning of a relationship to the twilight years in one post!

To add insult to injury I heard this all in Wilfred Brimley voice.😳😉

DI-AH-BEETUS 😆 

[Troo]

On 8/8/2022 at 2:50 AM, CR Americas Angel said:

I've been helping the dev team with implementing and testing a whole bunch of PvP changes that cater to a select few.

 

minor edit for ya.

 

btw, What would get more players like me to participate in more PvP is making PvP closer to PvE rather than continuing to diverge further while catering to highly specialized & costly builds that have a HUGE advantage over the average player stepping foot into PvP.

 

oh, and I use PvP zones near daily.

-good luck

Edited August 14, 2022 by Troo

[Glacier Peak]

11 hours ago, Troo said:

minor edit for ya.

 

btw, What would get more players like me to participate in more PvP is making PvP closer to PvE rather than continuing to diverge further while catering to highly specialized & costly builds that have a HUGE advantage over the average player stepping foot into PvP.

 

oh, and I use PvP zones near daily.

-good luck

I only down thumbed because of the edit to the quote. That hypothetical you mention above, that's the reality across all competition venues. Think Formula 1, highly specialized and costly. Think Olympic athletes training for a specific event - highly expensive coaching, specialized exercise, and dieting advice. Think about ANY other place in the world and tell me that those who compete at the highest levels don't pour lots of money in to specialized set ups or costs in order to gain not a huge marginal improvement, but a minor one. The reason a minor improvement is a big deal though is because at that level of competition, everyone is equally skilled. A millisecond faster is the difference between Gold and not standing on the podium in short distance racing. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Glacier Peak

[CR Americas Angel]

13 hours ago, Troo said:

 

minor edit for ya.

 

btw, What would get more players like me to participate in more PvP is making PvP closer to PvE rather than continuing to diverge further while catering to highly specialized & costly builds that have a HUGE advantage over the average player stepping foot into PvP.

 

oh, and I use PvP zones near daily.

-good luck

You took your time showing up!

 

In an idea world we'd revert to Issue 12 PvP rules and rebalance a bazillion things so that it balances as well as what's currently on  live. (While our current PvP system is counter-intuitive and a huge barrier to entry for most, it is objectively more balanced than Issue 12. So to make Issue 12 work there'd need to be a tonne of rebalancing going on.) Not only this, but we'd need to continue to maintain this balance every time a new PvE powerset/feature is added. This is a huge time investment.

 

Until we get a PvP dev I can't see that realistically happening. That's the hand we've been dealt. We can't play any other. The devs are not PvPers. Developing this game is their hobby, and they want to spend their spare time making cool PvE stuff. That's completely fine and valid. Every now and then they throw PvPers a bone, which is nice of them. But, it's always low hanging fruit / minimal time investment stuff. This means all we (as a playerbase) can realistically expect for PvP changes are quick wins and minor tweaks.

 

Now, the sort of PvP changes that would appeal to lapsed PvPers/PvEers (from a balancing perspective) would not be quick wins or minor tweaks. Such changes would require a grand overhaul. This would be a huge time investment. The man hours for this just aren't there.

 

Also, a possibly important caveat to the above: even if we were to get a PvP dev, who spent hundreds of hours a month making Issue 12 PvP both workable and balanced, we'd still run the risk of alienating some of the current PvPers. Now, I'd guess that most active PvPers would be up for Issue-12-but-balanced. But most isn't all. So, even if this idea were implemented perfectly, we'd still lose people. (And if it were implemented imperfectly? It could lose everyone.)

 

There are other options (such as a Final Fantasy approach that allows for every class to have a  identical build in PvP - it would play different to PvE, but there would be no barrier to entry for new players.) Could even have them fully unlocked in PvP, and allow you to level up your PvE build by PvPing. But...easier said than done.

[Troo]

5 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

That hypothetical you mention above, that's the reality across all competition venues. Think Formula 1, highly specialized and costly. Think Olympic athletes training for a specific event - highly expensive coaching, specialized exercise, and dieting advice.

 

Fact:

An experienced Homecoming player with a character capable of soloing arch villains and giant monsters can and/or will fail to meet expectations when crossing to PvP.

The game rules change significantly with little explanation or in-game guidance.

 

If you think promoting Homecoming PvP as requiring a "highly specialized and costly" PvP specific build, Olympic level training and coaching, on top of a Discord account, voice communications, a near flawless internet connection and a high performance computer is going to draw more players.. you should stop white knighting this topic.

 

 

@America's Angel I hear you. As I said, good luck with the cool events and the PvP GMs.

We've seen round after round of PvP changes on Homecoming. Each round diverging further and further with little concern for impacts to all players who should happen anywhere near PvP. Voices which point out concerns or shortcomings are often shouted down or deleted in order to maintain expedience in rushing out changes for the lobbying group or arena clique.

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

27 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Fact:

An experienced Homecoming player with a character capable of soloing arch villains and giant monsters can and/or will fail to meet expectations when crossing to PvP.

The game rules change significantly with little explanation or in-game guidance.

 

If you think promoting Homecoming PvP as requiring a "highly specialized and costly" PvP specific build, Olympic level training and coaching, on top of a Discord account, voice communications, a near flawless internet connection and a high performance computer is going to draw more players.. you should stop white knighting this topic.

 

 

@America's Angel I hear you. As I said, good luck with the cool events and the PvP GMs.

We've seen round after round of PvP changes on Homecoming. Each round diverging further and further with little concern for impacts to all players who should happen anywhere near PvP. Voices which point out concerns or shortcomings are often shouted down or deleted in order to maintain expedience in rushing out changes for the lobbying group or arena clique.

 

 

Troo, I'm not white knighting and you know that. I pointed out a similar FACT about competing at a high level. You clearly want something that can't exist in this game. Massive amounts of time can't be put in to reverting code or changing things to fit your narrow desires. The changes that we have been seeing have been based on community feedback. Democracy in action Troo. If you want something different, make it happen yourself just like the rest of the community has to do. 

[Troo]

2 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Troo, I'm not white knighting and you know that. I pointed out a similar FACT about competing at a high level. You clearly want something that can't exist in this game. Massive amounts of time can't be put in to reverting code or changing things to fit your narrow desires. The changes that we have been seeing have been based on community feedback. Democracy in action Troo. If you want something different, make it happen yourself just like the rest of the community has to do. 

 

Way to deflect, and you're totally white knighting. You are the queen of white knighting.

 

Massive effort? A lot of effort went into the changes that have happened. Changes over time can equal a lot of changes. A list of all Homecoming PvP changes would be quite large.

 

Community feedback: I've participated. It seems my feedback and that of others is often way too late (even though comments are provided when we hear of changes). As such, we've seen many posts deleted or shouted down by those really wanting said changes in those opportunities.

 

fyi - My desires lean toward more inclusion and not just max level specialized builds. I guess if that 94+% of the game and players are my "narrow desires", so be it.

 

This thread is about @America's Angel being the PvP Community Representative and I hope beyond hosting events they can somewhat represent all players who PvP or use PvP zones.

[CR Americas Angel]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

 @America's Angel I hear you. As I said, good luck with the cool events and the PvP GMs.

We've seen round after round of PvP changes on Homecoming. Each round diverging further and further with little concern for impacts to all players who should happen anywhere near PvP. Voices which point out concerns or shortcomings are often shouted down or deleted in order to maintain expedience in rushing out changes for the lobbying group or arena clique.

 

My last post went over a lot of your concerns about favoritism. (And to be fair to you, I can understand why someone might look at it that way.) Suggest giving it a reread.

 

Can't comment on the focused feedback moderation as I'm not a mod. But if posts were getting deleted it's likely because they were arguing with other players/being antagonistic rather than just testing and providing feedback. I make a point of reading and taking on board all feedback, regardless of the origin/content. So if you posted anything, don't worry. I likely saw it.

 

Like I said before, if you've got any ideas about ways that our time-poor PvE focused dev team can help make PvP more inclusive then I'm all ears. It's a big focus of mine. Feel free to DM if you'd rather.

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Way to deflect, and you're totally white knighting. You are the queen of white knighting.

 

Massive effort? A lot of effort went into the changes that have happened. Changes over time can equal a lot of changes. A list of all Homecoming PvP changes would be quite large.

 

Community feedback: I've participated. It seems my feedback and that of others is often way too late (even though comments are provided when we hear of changes). As such, we've seen many posts deleted or shouted down by those really wanting said changes in those opportunities.

 

fyi - My desires lean toward more inclusion and not just max level specialized builds. I guess if that 94+% of the game and players are my "narrow desires", so be it.

 

This thread is about @America's Angel being the PvP Community Representative and I hope beyond hosting events they can somewhat represent all players who PvP or use PvP zones.

Troo, I'm STILL not white knighting and I'm tired of your antics. I have continued to remark about high level competition requiring specialized and expensive investments in the real world. And the point keeps going over your horns.

[FriezaReturns00001]

15 hours ago, CR Americas Angel said:

You took your time showing up!

 

In an idea world we'd revert to Issue 12 PvP rules and rebalance a bazillion things so that it balances as well as what's currently on  live. 

 

Until we get a PvP dev I can't see that realistically happening. 

 

Also, a possibly important caveat to the above: even if we were to get a PvP dev, who spent hundreds of hours a month making Issue 12 PvP both workable and balanced, we'd still run the risk of alienating some of the current PvPers. Now, I'd guess that most active PvPers would be up for Issue-12-but-balanced. But most isn't all. So, even if this idea were implemented perfectly, we'd still lose people. (And if it were implemented imperfectly? It could lose everyone.)

 

There are other options (such as a Final Fantasy approach that allows for every class to have a  identical build in PvP - it would play different to PvE, but there would be no barrier to entry for new players.) Could even have them fully unlocked in PvP, and allow you to level up your PvE build by PvPing. But...easier said than done.

Alright some questions if allowed:

1. Didn't you guys have a dedicated PVPer dev or was that a previously Community Manager instead?

2. Betweeen the 2 outcomes disregarding Volunteering staff; which of the two is prefered by you; i.e. FFXIIV's hop in and play PVP for gearing or a roleback Issue 12 pvp rule set?

3. A pvp duel you mark as a significant highlight for yourself. 😄

[CR Americas Angel]

4 hours ago, FriezaReturns00001 said:

Alright some questions if allowed:

1. Didn't you guys have a dedicated PVPer dev or was that a previously Community Manager instead?

2. Betweeen the 2 outcomes disregarding Volunteering staff; which of the two is prefered by you; i.e. FFXIIV's hop in and play PVP for gearing or a roleback Issue 12 pvp rule set?

3. A pvp duel you mark as a significant highlight for yourself. 😄

Of course!

 

1.

We've never had a PvP Dev, but GM Smol, CR Mochi, and CR Banana Man are all PvP-focused. I'll be chatting & working with them about upcoming PvP stuff.

 

2.

This is hard to answer because I've not really looked into Final Fantasy all that deeply. But looking at it from a purely high-level standpoint, the Final Fantasy approach would be easier to balance, and would remove the need to get IOs. (Needing to slot IOs to PvP is a huge current barrier to entry for those interested in PvP. It's always bugged me that you need to make influence, usually in PvE, in order to kit out PvP characters.) But on the other hand, I12-but-balanced means that PvP and PvE would be similar to how PvP was back when it launched, when it was it's most popular. So...I'm torn. Curious to hear what others think.

 

3.

Back in 2020 I was the only player running an EM/EA scrapper in fightclub. (1v1 melee-only events where two people stand still duking it out until one dies.) During one of our events I managed to drop both TMart's Claws/Regen Brute and Ridicc's EM/Regen scrapper, who were arguably the best in their class at the time. A definite FC career highlight, although both of them have gotten their revenge since, several times over. Another highlight was this year, when that same EM/EA scrapper managed to defeat Madvillain's DM/EA scrapper. Mad's DM/EA had been the bane of fightclub for such a long time - it won tournaments constantly, and bodied all of my characters. (It was so OP, that the one time I managed to defeat it in 2020 with my SS/Inv Brute...we discovered it was due to a bug. That's how certain the outcome of our fights were.) So, to come back to the game this year and drop it legitimately for the first time? That felt good. (Wish I could say the same about his new Claws/Regen Scrapper which is making my life hell...)

Edited August 15, 2022 by CR Americas Angel

[Marshal_General]

I have not set foot in the PvP zones since live, but if we can get an instant IO'd 50 for PvP, will it scale down to the max level for the other PvP zones?

[CR Americas Angel]

1 hour ago, Marshal_General said:

I have not set foot in the PvP zones since live, but if we can get an instant IO'd 50 for PvP, will it scale down to the max level for the other PvP zones?

It will, yeah. Instant 50s/free PvP incarnates are coming in the upcoming page 4 release.

[FriezaReturns00001]

16 hours ago, CR Americas Angel said:

 

 

2.

This is hard to answer because I've not really looked into Final Fantasy all that deeply. But looking at it from a purely high-level standpoint, the Final Fantasy approach would be easier to balance, and would remove the need to get IOs. (Needing to slot IOs to PvP is a huge current barrier to entry for those interested in PvP. It's always bugged me that you need to make influence, usually in PvE, in order to kit out PvP characters.) But on the other hand, I12-but-balanced means that PvP and PvE would be similar to how PvP was back when it launched, when it was it's most popular. So...I'm torn. Curious to hear what others think.

 

 

I can sort of answer this PVP FFXIIV question for you; their revamp of the PVP is called Crystal Conflict; basically a tug of wareque with a object that moves across a lane inside of a circle you need to be in. You are correct however about the gearing thing being a barrier to entry; that doesn't exist at least for slotting stuff however they do have altercated game balance for that game mode only. You can level through it and even collect gear as well, also the mode is cap'd to around 8-10 minutes+overtime inclusions which compared to other PVP only games average at 20-25/30 minutes -- it's very short. 

 

IDK if you can answer this but say you were to just focus one game mode that new players and new-semi-new pvpers wish to play, what would that be? Something from the current game-mode selection or something else? I.E. a gamemode currently that could work with certain modifications or a separate one for the hop-in-and-play camps, I understand that some of the post age-50 lot wouldn't like this but we are in a gaming age now where most are just wanting to do the "quick-play" queue stuff, you know get some games in and then be done.

[Neuronia]

On 8/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, Troo said:

 

Way to deflect, and you're totally white knighting. You are the queen of white knighting.

 

Massive effort? A lot of effort went into the changes that have happened. Changes over time can equal a lot of changes. A list of all Homecoming PvP changes would be quite large.

 

Community feedback: I've participated. It seems my feedback and that of others is often way too late (even though comments are provided when we hear of changes). As such, we've seen many posts deleted or shouted down by those really wanting said changes in those opportunities.

 

fyi - My desires lean toward more inclusion and not just max level specialized builds. I guess if that 94+% of the game and players are my "narrow desires", so be it.

 

This thread is about @America's Angel being the PvP Community Representative and I hope beyond hosting events they can somewhat represent all players who PvP or use PvP zones.

 

As someone that PvPs very, very, very infrequently these days, inclusion has never really been a problem.
All the super good PvPrs now showed up for kickball, took advice, got help with IOs and so on then went on their way to teams and greater glory.
But...if you want to participate at high level play you will need certain slotting requirements, this is no different than if you want to do the new ITF settings you need T4 slotting.
For zone play it's more of a mish-mash, especially in RV where people can just hug the base and so on, but there's still decent fighting to be had.
The PvP community is still really cool, and they PvE too and are really helpful there too! Looking forward to America's Angel's work!