10 ideas for a Melee/Support AT

[Completist]

I recently searched the forum archive for new AT ideas and one with both Melee and Support abilities seems to be the most popular suggestion, which tracks with my own desires.  

 

So I brainstormed some Inherent abilities that would help define the niche for a Melee/Support (or Support/Melee) archetype. Here they are, presented rough and in no particular order. Which ones sound most interesting?

 

Marshal: Your secondary support powers grant a small amount of +Absorb to affected allies; affected foes gain a moderate debuff to their Damage and -Defense.

 

Medic: Your melee attacks empower your support abilities, increasing their duration for a short duration. The potency of your secondary Heals, Buffs, Debuffs, and Control effects are also increased. 

 

Grit: As you lose Health and Endurance, you gain increased +Recovery, Resistance to all Damage as well as Controlling effects. 

 

Desperation: If you or an ally is below 50% Health, you gain a huge bonus to +Recharge and all of your powers have a chance to cost 0 Endurance.

 

Keen Edge: You deal Critical Damage to foes with more than 75% Health. 

 

Karma: Your attacks grant you 1 stack of Stress and your support abilities grant you 1 stack of Calm. Stacks last for 12 seconds and are refreshed when another is added, to a maximum of 5 stacks of each type. For each stack you have in both Stress and Calm, you gain a moderate bonus to +Regen and +Recovery. At 5 stacks in both Stress and Calm you gain a moderate bonus to Damage as well.

 

Momentum: Every target affected by your powers adds to your Momentum, granting you a small bonus to +Recharge and +Recovery. Single-target abilities provide a much larger bonus. Momentum diminishes over time. (Maximum 7 ally targets and 16 foe targets.)

 

Watchful Eye: Nearby allies gain significant Resistance to controlling effects, which gets stronger as you use your powers, gradually filling your Overwatch meter. When your Overwatch meter is full, you may activate Watchful Eye, depleting the meter over 30 seconds, granting you and your teammates a large buff to Damage and Damage Resistance. 

[Zeraphia]

The principle of this kind of AT does not work. You're essentially granting a defender who normally stays at range to survive, damage tools that force them into melee. While also knowing it would have to be reduced to .65 scaling from the Scrapper's 1.125 scaling. That's why the idea isn't really likely to be executed. You're asking for a very unsafe AT that deals little damage to have tools that don't synergize.

 

Support + Assault would be a lot better.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Support + Assault would be a lot better.

So... uhm... Dominators?

[Zeraphia]

Just now, Rudra said:

So... uhm... Dominators?

Dominators are control and assault. Support and assault does not exist. 

 

Assault works with support because it has a mix of melee and ranged tools allowing it to be used with control sets like it could be used with support sets. Assault sets are designed better for this concept than melee sets.

[blue4333]

+1000 to Melee/Support ATs. 
 

Think of the concepts that can be realized!

 

Want to be a off brand  Batman knockoff? Go traps/MA

 

Want to fulfill your DnD fantasies? Go War Mace or Staff with the spell school of your choice. 

Swamp Thing inspo? Nature/Spines

 

For me I’d like to play a Poison/Savage snake themed character. 
 

What’s wrong with “Defenders” being in melee.  In my opinion, Defenders thrive in melee to get the most people in their aoe buffs or to even benefit from their own buffs. Heck most of the T9 nukes are PBAOE. 
 

Kinetic, Time, Nature, Poison defenders say hi 👋. 
 

lets not encourage the boring “healing” mentality please eg Empathy pure healers.

 

People need to stop gimping their toons just to prove a point: “no IOs” “IOs bad” “i dont conform to the build meta” 

 

On 8/12/2022 at 11:28 AM, Completist said:

Momentum: Every target affected by your powers adds to your Momentum, granting you a small bonus to +Recharge and +Recovery. Single-target abilities provide a much larger bonus. Momentum diminishes over time. (Maximum 7 ally targets and 16 foe targets.)

love this!

[blue4333]

And afterall, a Melee/Support AT will never be as badly designed as the Sentinel or Mastermind ATs. 

[Completist]

On 8/13/2022 at 6:57 PM, Zeraphia said:

The principle of this kind of AT does not work. You're essentially granting a defender who normally stays at range to survive, damage tools that force them into melee. While also knowing it would have to be reduced to .65 scaling from the Scrapper's 1.125 scaling. That's why the idea isn't really likely to be executed. You're asking for a very unsafe AT that deals little damage to have tools that don't synergize.

 

Support + Assault would be a lot better.

It's a new AT: Who says it has to do poor damage? We can pick whatever melee scaling we want. Try 0.9 or 1.0 and tweak the buff/healing numbers to balance it out. 

Support + Assault could be cool, but would share roughly 75% of the same powers with a corruptor or defender which makes it harder to justify a whole new AT unless the Inherent was really something. I'd rather repurpose Assault in a Manipulation/Assault AT or Assault/Pets AT.

[biostem]

What if you adjusted the support powers to also benefit the caster, even if it was at a reduced rate.  Regardless, I do not find it fun to be in melee without status protection and/or armor powers...

[Fr0stbyte101]

You could mix support and defensive skills similar to how assault is a mix of range+melee, like the guardian on Rebirth does their support sets. (Didn't they say they were going to open source that AT?) I'd like a guardian type AT but I want full out melee powersets not assault. I want a paladin (or warpriest for those who played WAR) using a TW hammer and empathy+regen or something. Though a sword and board type powerset with melee+defense with a support secondary would be acceptable too. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Fr0stbyte101

[biostem]

36 minutes ago, Fr0stbyte101 said:

You could mix support and defensive skills similar to how assault is a mix of range+melee, like the guardian on Rebirth does their support sets. (Didn't they say they were going to open source that AT?) I'd like a guardian type AT but I want full out melee powersets not assault. I want a paladin (or warpriest for those who played WAR) using a TW hammer and empathy+regen or something. Though a sword and board type powerset with melee+defense with a support secondary would be acceptable too. 

In general, I like the idea of mixing armors w/ support.  The problem arises in figuring out how or what powers to swap out for those armor toggles.  If we figure a s/l toggle, an en/neg/c/f, and a status protection one, that's at least 3 power that'd have to go.  Some sets would be easier to do than others, but it'd still. be a challenge, IMHO...

[Turric]

I am all for this!

[Silence]

13 hours ago, biostem said:

In general, I like the idea of mixing armors w/ support.  The problem arises in figuring out how or what powers to swap out for those armor toggles.  If we figure a s/l toggle, an en/neg/c/f, and a status protection one, that's at least 3 power that'd have to go.  Some sets would be easier to do than others, but it'd still. be a challenge, IMHO...

It could work like the Leadership Pool, in that both the caster and the people around him gets the buff. I think that would make sense for a Melee/Support AT.

[Completist]

On 8/27/2022 at 4:07 AM, Silence said:

It could work like the Leadership Pool, in that both the caster and the people around him gets the buff. I think that would make sense for a Melee/Support AT.

That would be too good, or more accurately, balancing it would necessitate an unviable damage nerf. Most support options have some built-in self buffing; making a general "buffs apply to the caster too" inherent would give some (like self-healing self-Fortitude empaths) much more potent defense than say, a blaster (to say nothing of corruptors and defenders). Meanwhile powersets without single target ally buffs (e.g. Dark Miasma) would get no benefit at all. You'd have to reinvent the wheel and modify powers ad hoc for every power set.

 

 

What you really want is a simple Inherent that adds a little survivability--just enough to make up for being forced into melee, without competing with actual Defense sets--and then count on the Support secondaries to manage aggro as much as they currently do. And yeah, /Empathy would be comparatively harder to solo, but that's nothing new. At least you'd do good damage while punching dudes and relying on your Aura heal to stay alive. 

 

And they could do great damage! Even top tier (ignoring further AT bonuses like crits) wouldn't necessarily be unbalanced; unlike a typical melee character whose defenses are mostly toggles, this AT would have to pause their attacks to use their secondary powers, making their overall damage lower than a scrapper or blaster but still very potent. 

 

[Silence]

That's the thing. I don't think you should feel "forced" into melee, it should be where you want to be with this kind of AT. It should be where your powers do the most good and where you feel like it belongs. "Leadership-like" buffs and aura heal/buffs/debuffs would encourage that.

I'm not saying all powers in the secondaries should be like Leadership, just enough to give some survivability and make the AT feels like it's own thing. And not just a hacked together scrapper/defender. 

Yes, it would be hard to balance, a lot of numbers would have to be crunched and powers have to be changed or added. Some sets might not make the jump.
I know very little of such things so I concede all of it. This is all just wishful thinking but I think it sounds like a fun AT and I kind of want to play one...

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Silence