What to do with Empyrean Merits in the future...

[Excraft]

6 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

For those who haven't shared their feedback on this change already in the Beta feedback thread, just a reminder to head over here and let it be known ASAP.

 

That ship sailed a long time ago.  There's no changing anything at this point, and unless you're heaping praise on changes, they don't want to hear your opinion anyway.

[Ignatz the Insane]

8 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

That ship sailed a long time ago.  There's no changing anything at this point, and unless you're heaping praise on changes, they don't want to hear your opinion anyway.

This is unfair and untrue.  The current devs DO listen and compromise.  I don't understand the angst and anger.  Like all changes to the current game, I'm gonna shrug and roll with it, even if I have minor disagreements.  I love this game, but it's just a game.   I also think that the current caretakers have done a decent job.  I won't spend one second agonizing any changes they think are needed.  I can't imagine being as bitter as you sound over development choices on a game that's free to play.  

[Ukase]

9 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

That ship sailed a long time ago.  There's no changing anything at this point, and unless you're heaping praise on changes, they don't want to hear your opinion anyway.

I feel a bit badly that you, and apparently others feel that way. 

Just so you and others are aware - consider this: 
Initially, they had planned to remove the vet level rewards within AE. 
Our feedback on that - they listened to, and they changed their minds. 

Whether it was for something worse - that is subjective, depending on how you typically do things and your perspective, and the future. 
But they did hear our opinions. 

I'm still wanting ...well, more candid statements from the powers that be, and hope we'll get them sooner than later - as to the specifics of why, and what they hope the end result of this change will be. 

It was John Lydgate, (A poet) who said, "You can please some of the people all of the time. You can please all of the people some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time." 
Which is strange for me - I know the quote, but never heard of Lydgate. Had to look it up, as I thought Will Rogers said it. Anyway, it would be a bit unrealistic to expect to be pleased by every change the HC devs will make. But I am somewhat comforted in knowing that they DID hear the objections and sought another method to curb whatever behavior they were trying to curb. 

 

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

This is unfair and untrue.  The current devs DO listen and compromise. 

 

Not sure I would characterize "lose Vet Levels or EMP Merit conversion or both" as a compromise.  Many players are losing out under any situation.  Just being honest. 

[arcane]

12 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

Not sure I would characterize "lose Vet Levels or EMP Merit conversion or both" as a compromise.  Many players are losing out under any situation.  Just being honest. 

The devs not implementing *your* feedback does not mean they did not listen to feedback and adjust the changes accordingly. I am very happy we were heard on the vet levels issue. 
 

Sometimes they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. One of the two changes was necessary to prevent the ridiculous strategy of rerolling characters for front loaded emp merits from being an optimal way to play - as a dev explained to us.

Edited August 16, 2022 by arcane

[Excraft]

2 hours ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

This is unfair and untrue.  The current devs DO listen and compromise.  I don't understand the angst and anger.  Like all changes to the current game, I'm gonna shrug and roll with it, even if I have minor disagreements.  I love this game, but it's just a game.   I also think that the current caretakers have done a decent job.  I won't spend one second agonizing any changes they think are needed.  I can't imagine being as bitter as you sound over development choices on a game that's free to play.  

 

You're welcome to your opinion.  I see it differently than you.  I also think that for the most part the changes made since the secret server was opened to everyone have been decent.  I can still dislike certain changes, if that's ok with you of course.

[Oklahoman]

10 hours ago, Excraft said:

That ship sailed a long time ago.  There's no changing anything at this point, and unless you're heaping praise on changes, they don't want to hear your opinion anyway.

 

Until the new version is pushed to live, the ship has not sailed. Ideally, those who had an opinion on the matter would have posted it in the appropriate thread before now, but that doesn't mean you still can't register an objection. You can even do that after it's pushed to live. It is possible to undo stuff.

 

However, I do agree with the sentiment that the changes are all but locked in at this point based on how we seem to do things around here. I understand that frustration.

[Troo]

23 hours ago, Spectral said:

It's just: usually my toons are T3-T4 before I even manage to unlock the hybrid slot and I still have Empys to spare.

 

Are you saying that the number of Emyreans earned is too much?

Nah, we were intended to experiment a little with Incarnates and mistakes do happen.

 

As others have said, Empyreans can be transferred to another character. This is the use for 'extra Emps'.

If a player has enough I believe they technically can T4 a brand new 50 which has zero vet levels. (maybe not the most efficient... we'll likely see more on this post Page 4)

 

New Incarnates are going to be a thing at some point. (not to be confused with Soon^tm)

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Troo

[blue4333]

29 minutes ago, arcane said:

I am very happy we were heard on the vet levels issue. 

 

Who's "we"?

 

As I recall, you were "having fun" watching posts that were against the initial No Vet EXP in AE stance in the beta forums as they thought the "sky is falling".

 

How convenient you say this only after the devs changed from No Vet XP to taking away the merit conversion. Shill much?

[ShardWarrior]

7 minutes ago, Troo said:

As others have said, Empyreans can be transferred to another character. This is the use for 'extra Emps'.

 

This is not useful for those of us who already have all the alts we want at whatever Incarnate level we want, if any at all.  It is great that people interested in kitting out their alts to T4 will be able to do this.  There is a forgotten/ignored group that does not fall into that category.

 

There looks to be quite a lot of solo players who were using those bonus EMP merits to convert to reward merits.  What should those solo players do now to make up for the loss?  "Run more team content" is not going to work for them.  I am asking honestly since it seems to me, at least from the people in my circle, that this is just going to mean even more farming, not less.  That seems to be the exact opposite effect of what this change was meant to do. 

[Troo]

9 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

This is not useful for those of us who already have all the alts we want at whatever Incarnate level we want,

 

If you have all the alts and all the incarnate teirs, then you are correct. Incarnate emps/salvage/threads/shards have little value if you don't want items at the incarnate vendor.

 

9 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I am asking honestly since it seems to me, at least from the people in my circle, that this is just going to mean even more farming, not less.  That seems to be the exact opposite effect of what this change was meant to do. 

 

The first change was more even handed in my opinion.

But the AE fire farm wailing over the 'need' to not just earn vet level but also all the rewards while AFK won out.

 

I solo a lot also. I just do it in PvP zones where the rewards are higher.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Troo

[arcane]

6 minutes ago, blue4333 said:

 

Who's "we"?

 

As I recall, you were "having fun" watching posts that were against the initial No Vet EXP in AE stance in the beta forums as they thought the "sky is falling".

 

How convenient you say this only after the devs changed from No Vet XP to taking away the merit conversion. Shill much?

I will always find inappropriately apocalyptic language hilarious and childish no matter where I stand on an issue. I never liked the vet level change.

[MoonSheep]

6 minutes ago, arcane said:

I will always find inappropriately apocalyptic language hilarious and childish no matter where I stand on an issue. I never liked the vet level change.

 

i’d advocate for no vet levels, no emp conversion and a 1 minute no xp AFK timer. a minor change but a step in the right direction for Game Balance®

 

high level IOs and incarnates should be a challenge to obtain, not an automatic right

[blue4333]

1 minute ago, MoonSheep said:

i’d advocate for no vet levels, no emp conversion and a 1 minute no xp AFK timer. a minor change but a step in the right direction for Game Balance®

 

high level IOs and incarnates should be a challenge to obtain, not an automatic right

 

Who hurt you? Did an IO'ed out blaster make you feel obsolete in game or something?

[ShardWarrior]

11 minutes ago, Troo said:

The first change was more even handed in my opinion.

 

Perhaps.  If the objective was to coax people out of AE, then neither change really solves anything in my opinion.  Removing Vet Levels from AE just meant moving to PI portal farms and removing the EMP conversion just means more farming to make up for the lost merits or inf from converting them to other items.  From my perspective, this change alienates a whole group of solo players while doing very, very little to nothing at all of solving the problem it was intended to address.  So now the few who were taking advantage of early Vet levels for the reward merits cannot convert them anymore.  So what?  They can still sit in AE and farm 24/7. 

[arcane]

6 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

If the objective was to coax people out of AE 

They explained what the objective of the merit change was, and it had nothing to do with herding players out of AE. You were there and replying to that dev when the explanation was given iirc.

[Troo]

38 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

If the objective was to coax people out of AE

 

AE Devs Choice gives all rewards and drops still happened. Never would have needed to leave the AE building. If someone's sole purpose was to repeat the same fire farm map for iVet rewards, yes it had an impact. That said, all rewards were available except very specific subset of some Incarnate rewards from some AE content. Empyreans can be earning in AE Devs Choice correct?

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Troo

[TerroirNoir]

Sheesh.  Look at this thread and marvel.  Oh well.

[TerroirNoir]

@arcane I usually hope for a middle ground to be found in things. I know, I'm naïve, but I keep on hoping.  Between this and other threads circling back to it, I wonder. Anyway. I can't say I have any answers/suggestions that would even create a middle ground though so what do I know?

[blue4333]

1 minute ago, TerroirNoir said:

I can't say I have any answers/suggestions that would even create a middle ground though so what do I know?

 

Well, a middle ground would be relatively simple/straightforward. Just keep things the way they are. Dev hours would be way better spent on making content and costumes rather than trying to pinpoint and penalise farmers (AFK or Active)

[TerroirNoir]

1 minute ago, blue4333 said:

 

Well, a middle ground would be relatively simple/straightforward. Just keep things the way they are. Dev hours would be way better spent on making content and costumes rather than trying to pinpoint and penalise farmers (AFK or Active)

While not disagreeing with you that things could be kept as is, that still isn't a middle ground. That's still a side.

[cranebump]

16 hours ago, Spectral said:

I was just wondering what to do with excess empyreans... I got my answer, thank you everyone who contributed.

I guess we can end the derailing here?

Oh, if only that were a reasonable expectation...:-)

[ShardWarrior]

15 minutes ago, Troo said:

AE Devs Choice would have an option and drops still happened. Never would have needed to leave the AE building. If someone's sole purpose was to repeat the same fire farm map for iVet rewards, yes it had an impact. That said, all rewards were available except very specific subset of some Incarnate rewards from some AE content. Empyreans can be earning in AE Devs Choice correct?

 

Sure, it prevents a very, very small subset of people from farming EMP merits from Vet levels to the detriment of the vast majority who were not doing that.   You can still earn them through Vet levels as far as I know but now you are unable to convert them to Reward merits as it seems quite a lot of people are. 

[Troo]

22 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

Sure, it prevents a very, very small subset of people from farming EMP merits from Vet levels to the detriment of the vast majority who were not doing that.   You can still earn them through Vet levels as far as I know but now you are unable to convert them to Reward merits as it seems quite a lot of people are. 

 

Which is why I thought the first solution was more even handed.

 

Middle ground could have been to remove Empyreans from the AE Vet Reward table.

Keeping Threads, CC Tokens, and Respecs. Maybe add threads to compensate. But this would be more work and less intuitive.

 

Level	Veteran Badge	Costume Change	Respec Grant	Empyrean Merits	Inc. Threads
1					120
2					120
3	Overleveled	CC Token		20
4					120
5					120
6	Faithful	CC Token		20
7					120
8					120
9	Dependable	CC Token	Respec	20
10					120
11					120
12	Loyal			20
15	Zealous	CC Token		20
18	Staunch	CC Token		20
21	Steadfast	CC Token	Respec	20
24	Devoted			20
Totals	33 Badges	13 CC Tokens	6 Respecs	410 Emp. Merits	960 Threads

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Veteran_Levels

 

But as far as what to do with Empyreans post Page 4, transfer to alt, use at Incarnate Vendor, hold for future Incarnate Abilities, and/or lobby for more items at the iVendor.

[blue4333]

11 minutes ago, Troo said:

Middle ground could have been to remove Empyreans from the AE Vet Reward table.

 

 

Bad idea as Emp Merits provide an easy way to get Rares or VRares. It would work if rares/vrares could be crafted in a cheaper way without additional components and just iThreads.

 

Example

Now - 8 Emp Merits for a Rare 

100 iThreads and 4 UnCommon

 

New 

160 iThreads for a Rare Component

(Following the 1 Emp merit = 20 iThreads)