Hard Mode Content Participation Poll

[golstat2003]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:20 PM, Texman said:

Sounds like a lot of people would try hardmode content if it wasn't for the time investment.  I wonder if there is a way to implement a hardmode option for say radio missions that would take a bit longer and offer more of a challenge than a regular +54x8.  As far as rewards it could  be something like increased chance for purple recipes drops, dunno just spit ballin here.

 

Now these I would try more often.

I don't have 3 - 4 hours anymore to try Hard mode with a PUG that may end up not finishing the TF or it be a completely unpleasant slog.

 

I'm hoping the Hard Mode options come to MORE bit-size content sooner rather than later. I know the Devs have that planned eventually.

[golstat2003]

On 8/17/2022 at 4:52 PM, Mezmera said:

 

Overall yeah this.  The effort it takes to organize one of these should be recognized regardless if its an 8 player ready made team or something that takes 30 mins of broadcasting for.  

 

It's why Apex/Tin Mage is so well received, not a huge time commitment with great rewards so it's always easy to get a quick team built even if broadcasting solely through LFG.  

 

This, so very this. I'm usually always down for Apex/Tin because even regular runs are pretty quick for BOTH TFs combined. lol

[Ukase]

On 8/18/2022 at 12:46 PM, Excraft said:

You don't need super pimped out builds for the higher level difficulty.

At the risk of being labeled as only slightly better than a mediocre player, YOU may not need a "Super pimped out build" for the higher level difficulty, but I tend to think I do. If I don't see a minimum of 40% defense in several categories on my blasters, I get quite antsy and nervous in routine play, let alone the harder stuff. I realize that may be just me, but I loathe the taste of defeat. I can't think of any worse experience in this game than seeing my character slump to the ground. It's almost physically painful for me to see it. This, and my aversion to turning toggles on are what lead me to slot for as much layered defense and resistance as I can without giving up too much dps. 

So, yeah, you NEED the best build you can afford for the hard mode stuff, unless you really have a fantastic team that you trust with timely heals/buffs/debuffs and aggro management. 

[Marbing]

27 minutes ago, Ukase said:

At the risk of being labeled as only slightly better than a mediocre player, YOU may not need a "Super pimped out build" for the higher level difficulty, but I tend to think I do. If I don't see a minimum of 40% defense in several categories on my blasters, I get quite antsy and nervous in routine play, let alone the harder stuff. I realize that may be just me, but I loathe the taste of defeat. I can't think of any worse experience in this game than seeing my character slump to the ground. It's almost physically painful for me to see it. This, and my aversion to turning toggles on are what lead me to slot for as much layered defense and resistance as I can without giving up too much dps. 

So, yeah, you NEED the best build you can afford for the hard mode stuff, unless you really have a fantastic team that you trust with timely heals/buffs/debuffs and aggro management. 

It definitely depends on his definition of "super pimped out", but yes it is much better if you at least have a decent build. You certainly don't need a maxed out crazy expensive build, though. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Marbing
tYPInG iS HaRd

[Ukase]

On 8/18/2022 at 2:06 PM, Shadeknight said:

What level 50 TF/SF would people, in theory, like to see get the Hard Mode treatment next?

I think this is the wrong question. 

What I'd like to see are all zones with mobs like event mobs - unleveled, or the same level as your character. I'd like to see posi 1, if led by a 50, get played at level 50 against level 50 characters. 

But, if I'm to answer your question, for me, the easiest, most boring TF at level 50 are the shard tfs. Rularuu at level 54 aren't always a cake walk, but because the tfs have so many missions, most players would rather watch Marie Osmond singing "Paper Roses" on repeat than play a shard tf at 54. I'm not sure if the TF just needs to be revamped (shortened) so folks would run it at 54, or if a hard mode version should be implemented. 

Miss Lib and LRSF, while simple when sped with a team of competent players, is quite nerve-wracking on certain pugs. I think if you look at the poll, a hard mode version of any TF only really serves about 15% of the player base, and another 35% "sometimes".  I just am not sure if that's the best use of time, all this hard mode stuff. I could certainly be wrong. 
 

[Ruin Mage]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

I think this is the wrong question. 

The topic was on Hard Mode Content. The question is on topic.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

I just am not sure if that's the best use of time, all this hard mode stuff.

What is and isn't the best use of time is, thankfully, in the hands of the devs.

[Ukase]

18 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

The topic was on Hard Mode Content. The question is on topic.

I just think there are other questions to ask. Granted, I can ask them myself. So fair point. But I don't need you to point it out. The poll makes it clear that the Hard mode stuff is hit or miss for 85% of the player base that participated in the poll. 
For 50% it's a complete miss. A complete miss by half the players!  Again, there are better questions to ask. My answer is don't spend time on making a level 50 tf a hard mode tf, because only 12% (as of this writing) would run it routinely. About 35% are maybe, maybe not. And over 50% are a clear "No". 

So, why ask the question as "which level 50 tf/sf", but instead, "Do you want to see more level 50 tf/sf adapted for hard mode?" 

Maybe better put, survey first. Then ask the question based on survey results. 

[Ruin Mage]

A forum poll says nothing of value, and ceasing the production of something just because of a forum poll is not Good Development Decision 101. Otherwise, the slope we slide down will be long and slippery.

I don't think "do you want to see more." style questions don't work out for stuff like this - having only two options of HMs is not a good idea, for example, and giving all / almost all the Level 50 SFs/TFs a HM version would allow for choices and spread.

In a more crass way: Who gives a shit that only a certain amount of people do the content. It's still valid content because its being played.

In the logic used, they should not make new powersets ever or remove less played powersets. That's where this line of thinking leads to.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Starforge]

16 minutes ago, Ukase said:

For 50% it's a complete miss. A complete miss by half the players!

Well, half of the hundred some-odd people that actually saw this thread on the forums and bothered to vote. Not at all indicative of half of the actual active playerbase.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Starforge

[Marbing]

26 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I just think there are other questions to ask. Granted, I can ask them myself. So fair point. But I don't need you to point it out. The poll makes it clear that the Hard mode stuff is hit or miss for 85% of the player base that participated in the poll. 
For 50% it's a complete miss. A complete miss by half the players!  Again, there are better questions to ask. My answer is don't spend time on making a level 50 tf a hard mode tf, because only 12% (as of this writing) would run it routinely. About 35% are maybe, maybe not. And over 50% are a clear "No". 

So, why ask the question as "which level 50 tf/sf", but instead, "Do you want to see more level 50 tf/sf adapted for hard mode?" 

Maybe better put, survey first. Then ask the question based on survey results. 

I don't think the content was created with the intent that every player would play it all the time. So close to 50% of the players in this poll (which is pointless given the number of alt accounts, as has been pointed out in other polls) participate in hard mode content at least sometimes, that's actually a pretty huge win considering there is only ONE SF that is considered hard mode content right now. Also, as has been stated before by many people, nothing is going to pull certain players off of certain content. They have outright stated that. So, I'd say the hard-mode content additions have been at least mildly successful. Keep in mind, the only hard mode content we have right now is ASF... you can only play that one SF so many times before you want to do something else. I think as they add more hard mode content, especially to SF/TF that aren't huge time sinks, you will see the participation in them grow. 

I know that not everyone likes it (for various reasons), people play the content they like and that is fine. I find it fun and would like to see more stuff added. So, the question of which SF/TF we would like to see added felt valid to me. But, if YOUR question is whether or not I want to see more hard mode content, I think that is obvious by my answer to the first question. 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Marbing

[Seed22]

I'd personally like to see some new arcs first.

 

HM is okay and all for those who like it, but I really think arcs are needed. Badly.

[Ruin Mage]

Sure, new arcs. I can't disagree there.

[Coyotedancer]

City of Dark Souls Mode can get stuffed... I'm with you guys. What we really need is new low-to-mid-level leveling content on the Blue side. The current crop is absolutely ancient, mostly awful and has needed an overhaul for about a dog's age. 

[Ukase]

39 minutes ago, Marbing said:

I don't think the content was created with the intent that every player would play it all the time. So close to 50% of the players in this poll (which is pointless given the number of alt accounts, as has been pointed out in other polls) participate in hard mode content at least sometimes, that's actually a pretty huge win considering there is only ONE SF that is considered hard mode content right now. Also, as has been stated before by many people, nothing is going to pull certain players off of certain content. They have outright stated that. So, I'd say the hard-mode content additions have been at least mildly successful. Keep in mind, the only hard mode content we have right now is ASF... you can only play that one SF so many times before you want to do something else. I think as they add more hard mode content, especially to SF/TF that aren't huge time sinks, you will see the participation in them grow. 

I know that not everyone likes it (for various reasons), people play the content they like and that is fine. I find it fun and would like to see more stuff added. So, the question of which SF/TF we would like to see added felt valid to me. But, if YOUR question is whether or not I want to see more hard mode content, I think that is obvious by my answer to the first question. 

That's fair. But like others, my vote is on more arcs. Red side, blue side, gold side, every level range. 

[Ruin Mage]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

City of Dark Souls Mode can get stuffed

It is stuffed! Full of boosted rewards as per Page 4 and optional tougher fighting meant for a team.

Anyway, Dark Souls isn't quite the apt comparison given that Dark Souls and Souls-esque games don't exactly have an easy setting where as the HM TFs are an optional selectable setting built off much easier stuff. I just don't know what would be the better comparison. Mythic+ from WoW doesn't quite work given these don't punish you for taking your time.

also yes i realize what you mean by stuffed.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Xiddo]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

That's fair. But like others, my vote is on more arcs. Red side, blue side, gold side, every level range. 

Only just realised Piecemeal is now listed as ‘Retired Developer’. Their arcs were great, what a shame.

Whenever I see any of the HC added stuff being advertised I’ll drop what I’m doing to join them. 

[Astralock]

2 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

City of Dark Souls Mode can get stuffed... I'm with you guys. What we really need is new low-to-mid-level leveling content on the Blue side. The current crop is absolutely ancient, mostly awful and has needed an overhaul for about a dog's age. 

 

We need both.  Almost all of my friends I had playing the game (dozens of people), back in 2019 and 2020 are long gone, because they disliked how "easy" the various changes SCoRE and Homecoming made the game.  Increased accessibility to ATOs, PvP IO enhancements, purple IO enhancements, winter IO enhancements, and Incarnate abilities made City of Heroes a substantially easier game compared to live, which killed their interest.  They've since moved on to raiding in World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XIV, and Guild Wars 2.

 

The only way to keep that crowd around and to keep new players like them around is to offer new optional content with increased difficulty that makes use of all of the new shiny toys SCoRE and Homecoming threw our way.  But yes, blue side also badly needs a revamp of content between levels ten and 40 or so to help keep new players.

[golstat2003]

11 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

A forum poll says nothing of value, and ceasing the production of something just because of a forum poll is not Good Development Decision 101. Otherwise, the slope we slide down will be long and slippery.

I don't think "do you want to see more." style questions don't work out for stuff like this - having only two options of HMs is not a good idea, for example, and giving all / almost all the Level 50 SFs/TFs a HM version would allow for choices and spread.

In a more crass way: Who gives a shit that only a certain amount of people do the content. It's still valid content because its being played.

In the logic used, they should not make new powersets ever or remove less played powersets. That's where this line of thinking leads to.

 

I'd rather they spend that time making hard mode available to sub level 50 content, non-TF content, and even paper missions. I'd also like them to spend some time cleaning up some of the poor lower level content on blueside or making more. My preferring they spend time on something else after the time spent on two hard mode tfs, does not mean I think there should no longer be any hard mode content for level 50. They've made two, I hope they focus on other things for a bit.