Nerf Destiny before Any More Advanced Difficulty TFs/SFs

[PLVRIZR]

Uh, as far as 4* HM ITF goes, if Rommie gets Barrier... 

 

Just means *his* team has to take out the members of your team, that are casting it (like his squids).  The difference is the heroes hit back. 😆

[Sarn]

4 hours ago, Burk said:

 

Selecting 4-star under difficulty does not prevent you from selecting "No Incarnate Powers" under power selections or the "No Enhancements" toggle. 😉

Yeah, but there isn't an option to limit incarnate use or effectiveness. Your option eliminates it altogether, which isn't something we want at this level of game play (and for which the developers balanced around). I doubt they balanced around barrier x 8, but maybe so. 

[SeraphimKensai]

I'd leave the incarnate powers as are.

 

That said any team requiring all 8 to run just barrier is insane, gotta have some ageless radial in there for DDR as well.

[Zhym]

Personally, I'm chuffed to see Barrier getting some love now.  For the longest time, it seemed like everyone already had soft-capped defense and possibly hard-capped resistance, so Barrier was seen as superfluous.  If you needed it at all in an iTrial, one person was plenty.  The requirements for Really Hard Way runs, for example, usually listed Clarion being needed, not Barrier.

 

But now?  Barrier is getting its day!  We'll see if it lasts, or if people discover that other Destiny powers are useful for the hard mode ITFs.  But for now?  It's a festival of Barrier!

 

14 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

That said any team requiring all 8 to run just barrier is insane, gotta have some ageless radial in there for DDR as well.

If it really is the case that the only way to make it through a 4-star ITF is for everyone to be running Barrier, then the problem isn't Barrier, it's that something is very broken with the 4-star ITF.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Zhym

[Excraft]

 

[Burk]

I find it funny how people took my post as being serious. I would have figured going as far as pointing out you could disable enhancements and then putting a winky face showed how I was joking about anyone using those options on Hard Mode. I was simply pointing out to someone who asked for an option to disable incarnates that the option already exists.

 

If I want to be serious, though, I am firmly against people trying to force incarnate powers to be disallowed from content. Last time this happened, we had all incarnate powers removed from Master of Task Forces, and that has been an outright pain for the last 9 months.

[golstat2003]

10 hours ago, arcane said:

Obviously you can disagree with the OP’s specific suggestion *without* taking ludicrous positions such as “all nerfs are bad” or the notoriously stupid “you want to control how others play!”. 
 

But it doesn’t seem many here got that memo.

 

The suggestion is not a good one. And yeah this is about controlling how others play. The OP can form their own teams and advertise for folks to switch out barrier for something else. But we all know such a team or advertisement will take ages to fill or possibly never fill at all. So what better way than to ask the devs to control how people can use the abilities on the run. Which I and others completely disagree with.

Edited August 30, 2022 by golstat2003

[golstat2003]

12 hours ago, Uun said:

Unyielding/Ruthless (☆☆☆) 

• This content is balanced around everyone on the team having Tier 3 incarnate powers.

Invincible/Relentless (☆☆☆☆) 

• This content is balanced around everyone on the team having Tier 4 incarnate powers.

 

Quoted again for emphasis.

[arcane]

9 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

The suggestion is not a good one. And yeah this is about controlling how others play. The OP can form their own teams and advertise for folks to switch out barrier for something else. But we all know such a team or advertisement will take ages to fill or possibly never fill at all. So what better way than to ask the devs to control how people can use the abilities on the run. Which I and others completely disagree with.

Every prominent member of this forum, including you and each and everyone one of those that use this argument, has contributed suggestions or feedback that could potentially contribute to game changes and “how others play”. Mostly because this is an MMO and MMO’s tend to get patched with changes that impact how players play.

It’s a stupid and childish way to frame an issue when one is too lazy to make an actual argument.

 

Again, you can disagree with this suggestion without resorting to that nonsense. Observe how I have managed to not endorse the OP’s suggestion without throwing around fallacious hypocritical trash.

Edited August 30, 2022 by arcane

[Seed22]

On 8/28/2022 at 6:51 PM, Astralock said:

 

"Just lead how you want."  Sounds great, except that doesn't work out in practice.  Most people are inherently lazy and will always take the path of least resistance.  "Join the guy who is asking people to use strategy, or just join the guy who will let us spam Barrier so I don't have to think?  I know which one I'm joining!"

You'd be surprised! Plus, In all the HM ITFs I've been in, there's what? one or if im REALLY lucky, two barriers at most? That's not gonna carry very well.

 

Now what you might be seeing is Aeon. To which yeah it kinda sucks to cycle barriers as the most reliable way, but if you forgo that strategy (which it still is a strategy), you can just stack support, so the issue isn't fixed, just laterally shifted. Which, will then lead to "Nerf X support set!" and can get kinda ugly from there.

[Doomguide2005]

     I spend a lot of time on these forums owing a great deal of that to a dead computer and my only internet being this phone.  I recall exactly one post where a +4 HM ITF was run with single digit deaths and that involved 7 Defenders and 1 Tanker.  Most of the time the reports are of safely double digit deaths.  So either Barrier isn't having nearly the overwhelming effect on things the OP seems to think it is or most of the population really needs to learn how to play.  Give you a one guess as to what I think the answer is.  

[Jiro Ito]

The option already exists to disable incarnate powers when setting up a TF, so, we're good?

 

So far my experience in running hard mode Aeon and Imperious has been pretty challenging with lots of deaths for strong teams, so I don't think Barrier is overpowered at all here, and using a team defensive ability at the right time to try and keep people alive counts as "strategy" in my opinion.

[Crasical]

On 8/29/2022 at 8:16 AM, Burk said:

 

Selecting 4-star under difficulty does not prevent you from selecting "No Incarnate Powers" under power selections or the "No Enhancements" toggle. 😉

 

 

And playing with one hand tied behind your back! Which I imagine is going to be a necessary skill because the only way I can imagine getting a team to do this is to have them handcuffed to your radiator.

 

[MoonSheep]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:56 PM, SeraphimKensai said:

I'd leave the incarnate powers as are.

 

That said any team requiring all 8 to run just barrier is insane, gotta have some ageless radial in there for DDR as well.

 

i run incan to scoop up all the corpses into a neat pile to veng from 

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Crasical said:

 

 

And playing with one hand tied behind your back! Which I imagine is going to be a necessary skill because the only way I can imagine getting a team to do this is to have them handcuffed to your radiator.

 

We're gonna need a bigger radiator....  😛

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

i run incan to scoop up all the corpses into a neat pile to veng from 

That sounds like something I would do. Back on live my friends and I were likely the reason teleport prompts were made, as some people were better off as veng bait.

[Ruin Mage]

No thanks the Original Suggestion.

[Doomguide2005]

Real simple bite off more ... 

If you truly think it's overpowered aggro more than one spawn.  And when your softcap starts nearing or exceeding the AT's defense hardcap get back to us.  You'll be either wiped rapidly, wish you had a Clarion+PB+Force Field, masses defense support and or Barriers to cycle.

[Zect]

Excellent and highly reasonable suggestion! It's nerf barrier or add more unresistable autohit damage, which would be a less fun mechanic with less space for counterplay.

 

The "burst" portion (initial 30s) in particular needs to be weaker.

[Zeraphia]

On 8/29/2022 at 1:32 PM, arcane said:

Obviously you can disagree with the OP’s specific suggestion *without* taking ludicrous positions such as “all nerfs are bad” or the notoriously stupid “you want to control how others play!”. 
 

But it doesn’t seem many here got that memo.

 

But he quite literally says how he wants people to play, and insults people not playing by his playstyle as "lazy."

 

On 8/28/2022 at 7:51 PM, Astralock said:

 

"Just lead how you want."  Sounds great, except that doesn't work out in practice.  Most people are inherently lazy and will always take the path of least resistance.  "Join the guy who is asking people to use strategy, or just join the guy who will let us spam Barrier so I don't have to think?  I know which one I'm joining!"

[Zeraphia]

As for my opinion on this topic...

 

I genuinely think this is to put plainly, stupid. It creates more problems than solves. Barrier is effective initially to the new player who thinks the game revolves around having high defense and resistance to accomplish what they want in the game. This has created a falsehood to some people that being inherently higher in defensive stats makes you so much better.

 

The reality is that higher offensive utilities tend to bring much more fruitful results. Defensive abilities like barrier allow safety in dealing that damage easier but the reality is that if the players were playing properly, barrier is just kind of mediocre in terms of what it does and is vastly overstated in comparison to other destiny powers. The destines people are going to ask for nerfbats to really don't solve any of the actual powercreep of the game. Barrier is extremely helpful to teams who refused to bring any supportive character to the team and the team is severely oversaturated in damage without any p2w buffs at all. Clarion, Incand, and Ageless are the real best destiny powers on any character that uses them, but for different purposes. Clarion is an instant break freeze and perma anti-mez (this is still not really that good because you can p2w your way with it, but I digress.) Clarion is absolutely essential against high CC content. Incand is probably the most broken incarnate power in the game in the spots its used, just people don't give it enough credit. Ageless is easily the runner-up, providing a huge amount of recharge and permanently solves all endurance issues. 

 

Destiny itself is overpowered but people will argue having mini blaster nukes for judgements is well simply put, better. I agree with that. I still don't think either incarnate power is in need of a nerf, rather people should create groups of individuals for selecting higher difficulty content (like no destiny iTrials) and enjoy that with their group, but not subject others to their own desires of gameplay. 

 

Before asking this change, is destiny the broken thing that made completing the trial so much easier, or is it the fact that your team compositions drafted absolutely no form of buffing at all, and that in the absence of such buffing, these buffs seemed better than they were?

Edited September 3, 2022 by Zeraphia

[Ruin Mage]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:56 PM, SeraphimKensai said:

That said any team requiring all 8 to run just barrier is insane, gotta have some ageless radial in there for DDR as well.

The only time I can recall it being Barrier Cycling is for 4-Star Aeon early on.

But there's better ways to go about besting that setting than "everyone go barrier." and I've not heard of a team requiring barriers for 4 stars. Personally, a mix is needed depending on which HM and what the team looks like.

[Astralock]

"Teams aren't requiring everyone to have Barrier Destiny."

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Astralock said:

"Teams aren't requiring everyone to have Barrier Destiny."

 

 

Perhaps.  Then again some teams probably still insist on needing a Healer before starting anecdotally speaking.

[Wavicle]

People routinely require "completed builds" for Magisterium runs. I've seen someone advertising for a PI RADIO TEAM requiring "capped Psi resists" to join.

There is no end to the stupid crap tryhards will "require". Don't worry about it.