90 Day Return Policy

[Canadian Anvil]

I'm seeing the same issue of market prices rocketing out of this world. I understand it's a real free market, but for new and casual players, it creates too much of an imbalance. Y'all remember during the last few months of Live where some IOs were almost 2,000,000,000 and orange salvage was astronomically priced? On Excelsior in the past few weeks orange salvage where the daily selling price has almost doubled from the high listing of 500,000 to a 1,000,000 with the low end averaging about 600,000. And like the real world, the cascading inflation of salvage and recipes skyrocketing will make IOs 2,000,000,000. And earning (an average) of 6,000,000,000 to 10,000,000,000 for an IO set will discourage new and casual players. For example, as of this posting, these are some of the stats:

• Orange Salvage: 9998987 for sale; 33703 bids; last five sales are four x 550,000 and one at 1,000,000

 

NOTE: I get that there is a logic to pooling, but it's not relevant to the point.

 

I'm suggesting a 90 day return policy where a listing or a bid is returned if not sold/bought after 90 days.

[SeraphimKensai]

I'll see your 90 day return policy and do ya one more....

 

Price gouging policy: implementation of AH code that limits listing an item for sale above 25% increase over it's 3 year average price on the AH. The 3 year mark will roll as years past, but this is an inflation control measure to maintain homeostasis of the market economy while still allowing marketeers the ability to fluctuate pricing based on market trends.

[Major_Decoy]

The rare salvage shouldn't exceed 1,000,000 information except by typo. If you pay more than 1,000,000 information, you bur right from the server and the information is removed from the system. It's a counter-inflationary practice.

 

New recipes enter the system through drops and merit purchases. If it's too expensive to buy a recipe with information, you can just buy with merits.

[Uun]

I've bought lots of orange salvage over the past few weeks. I put in a bid of 520,000 inf and come back in a day or two. My order is always filled. Don't get sucked in by the "buy now" price. Similar experience with IOs. Put in a reasonable bid and wait a few days.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, Canadian Anvil said:

 

 

NOTE: I get that there is a logic to pooling, but it's not relevant to the point.

 

 

 

It's actually entirely the point.

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Canadian Anvil said:

 On Excelsior in the past few weeks

 

 

The market's shared among all the servers.

 

Also, if for some reason purples went to multiple billions? I can get the recipe for 100 merits and probably have salvage sitting around. 100 merits isn't hard to get. There's pretty much zero reason for anything to get that high.  Yes, there are initial spikes here and there (like Prismatics selling for... what was it, 127 mill, now down to 3-3.5, sometimes down to 2) but usually the highest priced items, due to rarity, are the Superior Winter IOs (20-30m at most.)

 

Sky's not falling.

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, Canadian Anvil said:

I'm seeing the same issue of market prices rocketing out of this world.

 

I'm seeing hyperbole.  I've had to cut my prices on LotGs just to get them out of my inventory.

 

4 hours ago, Canadian Anvil said:

orange salvage where the daily selling price has almost doubled from the high listing of 500,000 to a 1,000,000 with the low end averaging about 600,000.

 

Orange salvage prices went up slightly not long after a new Page was released, drawing players back and new players in?  And that's indicative of spiraling inflation?

Definitely hyperbole.

[Canadian Anvil]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

It's actually entirely the point.

No. Not even close. Pooling was introduced so long ago in live (I remember it when I started in 2007), and if it was a price control, then obviously it failed - miserable; hence, unless you have the link that explains why they pooled market items, it's not related.  All it seems to do is let us know what we'll pay/make/manipulate. A free market without levers to control pricing leads to rampant inflation. (In case you haven't noticed like oil prices spiking causing a chain effect on the cost of living because our countries in the west have removed so many levelers since the 1980s under the guise of less red tape, smaller government.) I use pooling to my advantage as I farm the market with IOs.

 

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

 

The market's shared among all the servers.

 

Also, if for some reason purples went to multiple billions? I can get the recipe for 100 merits and probably have salvage sitting around. 100 merits isn't hard to get. There's pretty much zero reason for anything to get that high.  Yes, there are initial spikes here and there (like Prismatics selling for... what was it, 127 mill, now down to 3-3.5, sometimes down to 2) but usually the highest priced items, due to rarity, are the Superior Winter IOs (20-30m at most.)

 

Sky's not falling.

Never said the sky is falling. But thanks for the info on the pooling. And I farm merits to get rare salvage (5 merits), e.g. Adamastor and Scrapyard in a few hours can get me 3 or 4 rare salvage). Other ways to get a good set and make money is SBB. I ran it on one toon 8 times one day (equal to 800 merits). Got my set and sold two for millions and got a set of Touch of Lady Grey. My point is without price control, we could hit the same ridiculous prices that exist on Live.

[Canadian Anvil]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

I'm seeing hyperbole.  I've had to cut my prices on LotGs just to get them out of my inventory.

 

 

Orange salvage prices went up slightly not long after a new Page was released, drawing players back and new players in?  And that's indicative of spiraling inflation?

Definitely hyperbole.

Nope. It's what happened on Live. Anyone who played on Live will remember it.

 

When I started Homecoming n late 2020 rare salvage was going for 100,000 and now it's going for 500,000. Recipes prices have jumped dramatically. I don't remove and relist unless I see an opportunity to relist at a higher price, e.g., I list an IOs at 1,000,000 and I see someone bought one at 1,500,000, I will relist for 1,500,000 or higher. It can stay there forever till it sells. I'm not complaining because I'm suffering from the problem; I am part of the problem and will "self-regulate" as needed.

[Luminara]

20 minutes ago, Canadian Anvil said:

When I started Homecoming n late 2020 rare salvage was going for 100,000 and now it's going for 500,000.

 

When I started on HC a year before you did, rare salvage was selling for ~450,000 inf*, and I've never had bids fill for less than 325,000 inf*, no matter how long I left them.  500,000 inf* is perfectly reasonable and in line with my experience.

 

And I did play on the original servers, for years.  I remember the market situation painfully well.  What we have on the HC servers is not experiencing the inflationary trends shown on the original servers.  You're over-reacting to a minor fluctuation.

[lemming]

It's feasible to bump whatever prices for a bit, but for salvage, it won't stick since there is a cap where they're seeded at.

And looks like Rare salvage is going for 500-600k currently.

 

Anecdotally, I've seen most prices rise a bit since 2019, but seem to have plateaued in the last year with occasional spikes.

 

Now, with returning a bid or sell after set amount of time, probably be good for those people that accidentally add an extra zero, but not great for those people that have been storing excess influence in the auction house.

[Canadian Anvil]

2 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

When I started on HC a year before you did, rare salvage was selling for ~450,000 inf*, and I've never had bids fill for less than 325,000 inf*, no matter how long I left them.  500,000 inf* is perfectly reasonable and in line with my experience.

 

And I did play on the original servers, for years.  I remember the market situation painfully well.  What we have on the HC servers is not experiencing the inflationary trends shown on the original servers.  You're over-reacting to a minor fluctuation.

Maybe I am; or maybe I am learning from the past in hopes of not repeating the mistakes. While the standard quote for Insanity was not said by Einstein, it's still true and another way to say: those who don't learn from their mistakes will repeat them.

 

I use to have two 10@100,000 per rare salvage like Mu Vestments over a year ago, and that was redone with two 10@350,000 around the middle, end of last year, and know i have two 10@500,000 ones sitting there for almost a month not filled. I repeat, I'm not complaining because I'm suffering from the problem; I am part of the problem and will "self-regulate" as needed. Or to quote the Mask: "Somebody stop me!"

[Canadian Anvil]

6 minutes ago, lemming said:

Now, with returning a bid or sell after set amount of time, probably be good for those people that accidentally add an extra zero, but not great for those people that have been storing excess influence in the auction house.

I didn't think of that - well, really, I didn't know players do that.

[Excraft]

This is what happens when you make changes that drive away farmers.

[Sovera]

I never ever ever ever ever saw rare salvage for 100k. I've seen it start at 1 mill right after HC came out (price limit), seen it go down to 700k, eventually settle at 400k for a brief period then go back to 500-600k and stay there.

 

This claim alone makes the rest difficult to follow.

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Canadian Anvil said:

No. Not even close. Pooling was introduced so long ago in live (I remember it when I started in 2007)

 

 

... no you don't. Salvage on Live was not pooled. It's why things like Luck Charms were profitable while other salvage was not, or even not available.

 

Pooling is having all salvage of one rarity level all be the same. Put in twenty Luck Charms, someone else can buy twenty Boresights, and all the game sees is "X much Common salvage was put in, X much was sold." Pooling is why there can *be* seeded salvage - they're not seeding 100,000 of each common type, uncommon type, etc. at a price, they just seed (say) 500,000 "Salvage rank Common" commons at a sell price of (I want to say) 10k inf. Nobody should ever have to pay more than 10k for commons thanks to that. Or 100k for uncommon, or 1m for rare.

 

Merits for salvage is a rather inefficient way to spend them, btw. Even rare salvage. AE tickets, eh, maybe. (It's what I did on live when salvage prices *were* crazy.)

 

Edit:

This is how pooled salvage looks - no matter what piece you pick, it's going to show the same (auction house display bugs aside.)

 

Same price, same dates, etc.

 

Edit 2:

I think I know what *you're* thinking of - when Going Rogue was introduced, there was initially going to be a *third* market with a *third* currency called "information," but someone finally got whacked with a clue bat and said "No, there shouldn't be three markets. There shouldn't even be a red and blueside market." They combined the *markets* into one,  so it didn't matter if supply or orders came from red or blue side, but they didn't pool the contents.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Greycat

[Canadian Anvil]

19 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I never ever ever ever ever saw rare salvage for 100k. I've seen it start at 1 mill right after HC came out (price limit), seen it go down to 700k, eventually settle at 400k for a brief period then go back to 500-600k and stay there.

 

This claim alone makes the rest difficult to follow.

 

o.O

 

If you see a flat earth, then you don't believe it's round? Seriously! Others confirmed this is what happened on Live; other confirmed prices dropped during the pandemic, lock down (which is relative to the time frame I started/returned to CoX), but most of all, you didn't follow this thread even thought there were eight post before I mention 100,000. Guess you'll tell me I'm crazy because yellow salvage use to be plentiful at 1,500 just a few weeks ago where now it fluctuates between 2,500 to 5,000 with numerous spikes in the 10,000s. I'm willing to bet you were the first to unravel the MCU mysteries before they were written.

[Canadian Anvil]

46 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

... no you don't. Salvage on Live was not pooled. It's why things like Luck Charms were profitable while other salvage was not, or even not available.

 

Pooling is having all salvage of one rarity level all be the same. Put in twenty Luck Charms, someone else can buy twenty Boresights, and all the game sees is "X much Common salvage was put in, X much was sold." Pooling is why there can *be* seeded salvage - they're not seeding 100,000 of each common type, uncommon type, etc. at a price, they just seed (say) 500,000 "Salvage rank Common" commons at a sell price of (I want to say) 10k inf. Nobody should ever have to pay more than 10k for commons thanks to that. Or 100k for uncommon, or 1m for rare.

 

Merits for salvage is a rather inefficient way to spend them, btw. Even rare salvage. AE tickets, eh, maybe. (It's what I did on live when salvage prices *were* crazy.)

You mention Luck Charm on Live makes me recall, and I am wrong on that point. Ta. But doesn't change my point of prices seem to be following Live. As for pooling, it did nothing to resolve it.  As for Merits V AE, nah. A few minutes an hour taking out Adamastor and Scrapyard twice (three pieces of rare salvage) V earning over 1600 AE tickets. It's also not my play style as I like TFs, doing Paper so I can tear up some hero's city while robbing the bank (for the buffs really and temp powers like Summon Team), and other teaming.

 

Edit:

Thanks, I know.

 

Edit 2:

No idea what you're talking about of a third market. (Technically there are multiple markets on Live and [whatever we call this system] with Auction, AE, Merits, Incarnate, Hero Villain tokens.... Granted some would argue those are just different currencies.) As mentioned above, I started Live in 2007, played a few months after AE was introduced, and returned to Live when it went F2P which was a different sh!tsh0w as it appeared to be focused on a small RP population instead of expanding to recapturing a market share, limiting IOs use (this one is fuzzy, but I recall on my main toon at that time having an issue with the IOs I earned on sub), and other small things that made Cryptic Studios's "free to play" model annoying.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Canadian Anvil
Replying to Geycat's Edits

[Greycat]

5 minutes ago, Canadian Anvil said:

You mention Luck Charm on Live makes me recall, and I am wrong on that point. Ta. But doesn't change my point of prices seem to be following Live. As for pooling, it did nothing to resolve it. 

 

Which "It?" Are you talking about live prices (which, frankly, on live all it did was keep supply of some things from getting too fragmented) or prices for salvage here?  On live, it didn't do anything for prices, no, since every piece was its own "bucket," and prices and supply could still vary wildly.

 

Here, it's done great things, starting with the fact there *is* a cap for seeded salvage (IE, no reason at all to pay over 1m for a rare piece, and they all share the cap, so we're not seeing - for instance - cheap Heads Up Displays, but Hami Goo and Mu Vestments going for several million a piece.)

 

Plus, going back to your original post about insane live IO prices and discouraging casual players... there are other things (specifically merits, really) that pretty much mean that won't happen. If, for some reason, someone started trying to sell purples for multiple billions... I'd join a hami raid (we do three sets of two over on Everlasting, and they go quick, meaning I'd have 280 merits... each day... just from that) and be able to buy the recipes much "cheaper." There's essentially no reason for prices to hit live pricing even for the so-called rarest items.

[biostem]

You want something *now*, you're going to pay a premium.  If you're willing to be patient, you'll get a way better price.

[Canadian Anvil]

20 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Which "It?" Are you talking about live prices (which, frankly, on live all it did was keep supply of some things from getting too fragmented) or prices for salvage here?  On live, it didn't do anything for prices, no, since every piece was its own "bucket," and prices and supply could still vary wildly.

 

Here, it's done great things, starting with the fact there *is* a cap for seeded salvage (IE, no reason at all to pay over 1m for a rare piece, and they all share the cap, so we're not seeing - for instance - cheap Heads Up Displays, but Hami Goo and Mu Vestments going for several million a piece.)

 

Plus, going back to your original post about insane live IO prices and discouraging casual players... there are other things (specifically merits, really) that pretty much mean that won't happen. If, for some reason, someone started trying to sell purples for multiple billions... I'd join a hami raid (we do three sets of two over on Everlasting, and they go quick, meaning I'd have 280 merits... each day... just from that) and be able to buy the recipes much "cheaper." There's essentially no reason for prices to hit live pricing even for the so-called rarest items.

It is prices. Merits didn't help on Live where prices were astronomical as others have attested to above (but I agree, depending on the set, it may not take long to earn 150 to 600 Merits). The seeded salvage cap may help with price control. We will see. Either I am correct and in a few short weeks to months, rare salvage (hence the inflation spreading to IOs' prices) will be on an astronomical path, or I'm wrong. As for the three times I managed to check, rare salvage is already floating between 600,000 to 800,000.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Canadian Anvil
Cause I wanted to correct something :P

[Luminara]

20 minutes ago, Canadian Anvil said:

prices seem to be following Live.

 

They can't.  There are controls in place to prevent it.  You've noted a miniscule temporary increase in the Buy Now price for rare salvage and turned it into a panic thread about rapid, rampant inflation spiraling out of control.  Relax, Chicken Little, the sky's firmly nailed overhead.

[biostem]

I know some people are averse to farming, but a single run of an updated AE tunnel farm takes under 10 mins and yields enough tickets to buy a single orange piece of salvage, too... 

[Canadian Anvil]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

They can't.  There are controls in place to prevent it.  You've noted a miniscule temporary increase in the Buy Now price for rare salvage and turned it into a panic thread about rapid, rampant inflation spiraling out of control.  Relax, Chicken Little, the sky's firmly nailed overhead.

They can't? Again, I'm not seeding panic. In fact they only person who keeps insisting there's a panic attitude is you. As I said and implied in the posts above, mother hen: either I am right, or I am wrong. Either way, my earning power on one toon has double this month alone. (And it's only the 11th.)

[Canadian Anvil]

7 minutes ago, biostem said:

I know some people are averse to farming, but a single run of an updated AE tunnel farm takes under 10 mins and yields enough tickets to buy a single orange piece of salvage, too... 

I may check that out sometime. Thanks for the info.